OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic -- Part Deux

[salbutera]

Nixing that 2-city contraption might actually have been a good thing:

There’s no $ for expansion fees… Mtl is the Quebec City for MLB

 

[Runner77]

There’s no $ for expansion fees… Mtl is the Quebec City for MLB

It’s still better than that ludicrous two-city thing. I think something will happen within or around the 30-year mark from having lost the franchise.

 

[Frenchy]

I'm disappointed, even if i had my reservations on the idea to share the team with Tampa from the start.To me having an MLB team in Montréal part time didnt work in my mind.

I have a weird feeling right now , it's like like the MLB used Montreal and was never interested to come back.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'm disappointed, even if i had my reservations on the idea to share the team with Tampa from the start.To me having an MLB team in Montréal part time didnt work in my mind.

I have a weird feeling right now , it's like like the MLB used Montreal and was never interested to come back.

Two city plan was NEVER gonna happen.

I still believe Rays will move to Montreal barring Rays being sold to local billionaire willing to fund stadium in Tampa privately.

 

[JianYang]

Nixing that 2-city contraption might actually have been a good thing:

I'd imagine the expansion route is far, far more costly. Not sure Bronfman and co. are up for that.

 

[Laurentide]

I lived in Vancouver when the Grizzlies came into existence. They were beset by a myriad of challenges from the get-go but one of the persistent issues was the fact that they were not able to improve, either through trades, free agency or even the draft. And the reason for this was simple enough: players (at least those with talent who had options about where they played) did not want to play in Vancouver. Agents would tell the Grizzlies ahead of the draft not to select this or that client because the client had signed an endorsement deal with a shoe company which stipulated that he could not play for certain teams because those teams wouldn't get enough US national television exposure.

Now do Montreal.

The NBA would be a colossal failure in Montreal and just like Vancouver, they would never be able to attract, keep or even draft elite players.

 

[Laurentide]

Interesting that the Habs would own a potential NBA team. I mean they do own the arena.

Is Molson rich enough to bankroll two big 4 franchises?

Then-Canucks owner Arthur Griffiths, who was forced to pay for a new arena himself because the taxpayers refused to build it for him, tried to generate more revenue for his new arena by getting an NBA franchise to compliment the Canucks. In the process he ran out of money and wound up having to sell the whole thing to an American owner (John McCaw) The Grizzlies limped through 6 forgettable seasons and when they moved to Memphis the entire city of Vancouver merely shrugged.

 

[Laurentide]

He has friends who could step in as a consortium.

Montreal sports fans, particularly Expos fans, love them some consortiums.

 

[EXPOS123]

I lived in Vancouver when the Grizzlies came into existence. They were beset by a myriad of challenges from the get-go but one of the persistent issues was the fact that they were not able to improve, either through trades, free agency or even the draft. And the reason for this was simple enough: players (at least those with talent who had options about where they played) did not want to play in Vancouver. Agents would tell the Grizzlies ahead of the draft not to select this or that client because the client had signed an endorsement deal with a shoe company which stipulated that he could not play for certain teams because those teams wouldn't get enough US national television exposure.

Now do Montreal.

The NBA would be a colossal failure in Montreal and just like Vancouver, they would never be able to attract, keep or even draft elite players.

Great post - never thought of it like that.

 

[Laurentide]

I'd imagine the expansion route is far, far more costly. Not sure Bronfman and co. are up for that.

Bronfman isn't up for spending his own money. That's the problem. He's only too happy to spend your money, but don't ask him to reach into his own pockets. He has alligator arms.

If bringing back the Expos was that important to him he could have done it simply by putting his money where his mouth is. But he doesn't really care. The team and the stadium were just part of an elaborate scam to get the taxpayers to foot the bill for all the infrastructure costs he's going to incur with his Peel Basin redevelopment plan.

 

[BLONG7]

Bronfman isn't up for spending his own money. That's the problem. He's only too happy to spend your money, but don't ask him to reach into his own pockets. He has alligator arms.

If bringing back the Expos was that important to him he could have done it simply by putting his money where his mouth is. But he doesn't really care. The team and the stadium were just part of an elaborate scam to get the taxpayers to foot the bill for all the infrastructure costs he's going to incur with his Peel Basin redevelopment plan.

It sure does look that way now.
Brutal......these guys have a ton of money, but refuse to use their own....go figure.

 

[JianYang]

I lived in Vancouver when the Grizzlies came into existence. They were beset by a myriad of challenges from the get-go but one of the persistent issues was the fact that they were not able to improve, either through trades, free agency or even the draft. And the reason for this was simple enough: players (at least those with talent who had options about where they played) did not want to play in Vancouver. Agents would tell the Grizzlies ahead of the draft not to select this or that client because the client had signed an endorsement deal with a shoe company which stipulated that he could not play for certain teams because those teams wouldn't get enough US national television exposure.

Now do Montreal.

The NBA would be a colossal failure in Montreal and just like Vancouver, they would never be able to attract, keep or even draft elite players.

I think the climate for a Canadian team is better now than the 90s. The nba has more of an international talent pool than before.

It would certainly have to be a case where you do it through drafting though. Canadian team will never be a hub for free agents, but the raptors have succeeded in being competitive, and even having a championship despite facing some of the same challenges that another Canadian franchise would face.

What is mind boggling to me is the number of players coming into the nba from Ontario now. I wonder how a local guy would feel about signing there one day.

I'd say it would be difficult, but not an impossible task to have a team work in Canada, but I always thought if it were to happen again, it would be Vancouver.

 

[EXPOS123]

Bronfman isn't up for spending his own money. That's the problem. He's only too happy to spend your money, but don't ask him to reach into his own pockets. He has alligator arms.

If bringing back the Expos was that important to him he could have done it simply by putting his money where his mouth is. But he doesn't really care. The team and the stadium were just part of an elaborate scam to get the taxpayers to foot the bill for all the infrastructure costs he's going to incur with his Peel Basin redevelopment plan.

I mostly agree, but i truly believe that Bronfman wants baseball back here regardless of the redevelopment or not, but recognizes the sad reality that baseball in Montreal will not work over a full schedule. Can they sell out every game for 40 games? Yes, i believe so as he feels too...but to say that would be the case over 82 games...probably not, and this is the problem...hence the 2 headed monster proposal.

 

[eklund the clown]

I guess in the long run it doesn't matter if Bronfman wants to spend his money,taxpayers or gov't money because MLB shot down the idea of splitting games between the 2 cities.Would be kind of silly of him to spend 100's of millions to build a stadium with no guarantee of getting a team.Quebec and Hamilton trying to get an NHL team are just 2 examples.Also the stadium would have to be a retractable roof setup to play a full schedule with the weather here

 

[Runner77]

I mostly agree, but i truly believe that Bronfman wants baseball back here regardless of the redevelopment or not, but recognizes the sad reality that baseball in Montreal will not work over a full schedule. Can they sell out every game for 40 games? Yes, i believe so as he feels too...but to say that would be the case over 82 games...probably not, and this is the problem...hence the 2 headed monster proposal.

From yesterday’s presser I understood that the proposed new stadium was going to be multifunctional. Maybe that’s how they were looking to make up for some revenue shortfall.

 

[salbutera]

Stevie Bronfman is rich not David Tomson, Desmarais, let alone Bezo$ type wealthy, which is what Expos owner needs to be to accept heavy losses + paying for development of a ballpark.

Molson can get away without that kind of wealth because Habs will always hold high demand, but Expos … never

 

[Runner77]

Stevie Bronfman is rich not David Tomson, Desmarais, let alone Bezo$ type wealthy, which is what Expos owner needs to be to accept heavy losses + paying for development of a ballpark.

Molson can get away without that kind of wealth because Habs will always hold high demand, but Expos … never

Does Bronfman need to be uber wealthy to get it done? He doesn’t have to go into it alone and won’t.

 

[salbutera]

Does Bronfman need to be uber wealthy to get it done? He doesn’t have to go into it alone and won’t.

A very successful baseball team in Mtl, MIGHT break even… which is why Desmarais, Tomson et al have zero interest

For nearly the last 20-years of their existence Expos were dead last… way behind second last in radio & TV revenue

Yes Bell needs summer content, but they’re not going to fork over Habs type TV $ for baseball in Mtl - for a sport without a hard cap

 

[dcyhabs]

Then-Canucks owner Arthur Griffiths, who was forced to pay for a new arena himself because the taxpayers refused to build it for him, tried to generate more revenue for his new arena by getting an NBA franchise to compliment the Canucks. In the process he ran out of money and wound up having to sell the whole thing to an American owner (John McCaw) The Grizzlies limped through 6 forgettable seasons and when they moved to Memphis the entire city of Vancouver merely shrugged.

Worked out pretty well, really. There is no particular reason that governments should be massively subsidizing players and owners. The owners already have enough money, they don't need subsidies. The players were totally exploited until a few decades back, and with current agreements they should still do well even if we taxpayers stop massively subsidizing the leagues and their paychecks.

Toronto succeeded in winning a championship in spite of the disadvantages. They still have difficulty getting players to stay, but only a few NBA teams really attract players.

Way better to have owners run out of money than to have all of us putting a billion dollars into building the big O (inflated by mayoral incompetence), billions more to keep fixing it up, plus subsidies to the team over the years, only to watch the team move so some American art dealer and Brochu could make loads of money they did nothing to earn without putting up any of their own cash.

 

[dcyhabs]

Stevie Bronfman is rich not David Tomson, Desmarais, let alone Bezo$ type wealthy, which is what Expos owner needs to be to accept heavy losses + paying for development of a ballpark.

Molson can get away without that kind of wealth because Habs will always hold high demand, but Expos … never

The owner gets his money when he sells. Bronfman Sr tried to sell but still have someone run the team. He let the profit go to try to be good to the city. The people he left in charge contributed nothing and sold out. They literally took his money and ran.

 

[Runner77]

A very successful baseball team in Mtl, MIGHT break even… which is why Desmarais, Tomson et al have zero interest

For nearly the last 20-years of their existence Expos were dead last… way behind second last in radio & TV revenue

Yes Bell needs summer content, but they’re not going to fork over Habs type TV $ for baseball in Mtl - for a sport without a hard cap

There has been better revenue sharing since the Expos days. And there were several finishes that would have generated a post-season berth, if current playoff format were then in existence. Expos faced so much adversity, mostly in the form of shortsighted ownership that led to their demise.

 

[salbutera]

There has been better revenue sharing since the Expos days. And there were several finishes that would have generated a post-season berth, if current playoff format were then in existence. Expos faced so much adversity, mostly in the form of shortsighted ownership that led to their demise.

Back in the 90s the Expos were way ahead the curve especially under Duquette and Malone in terms of being big students of sabermetrics guru Bill James and used that analytics approach in targeting young players when every other team i the league didn’t, by the early 2000s 90% of MLB teams had caught up - Mtl simply has no chance to compete w NYY, Sox, even STL like they once did because all of them not only have $, they also use analytics to the fullest and staff w the best available

It was also never shortsighted ownership, they knew Mtl simply wasn’t a baseball market that could constantly support a $75M+ payroll, and they were right.

Expos we’re ultra competitive from 92-94, and even 94 season they didn’t start drawing till late June….that’s completely unacceptable

 

[Runner77]

Back in the 90s the Expos were way ahead the curve especially under Duquette and Malone in terms of being big students of sabermetrics guru Bill James and used that analytics approach in targeting young players when every other team i the league didn’t, by the early 2000s 90% of MLB teams had caught up - Mtl simply has no chance to compete w NYY, Sox, even STL like they once did because all of them not only have $, they also use analytics to the fullest and staff w the best available

It was also never shortsighted ownership, they knew Mtl simply wasn’t a baseball market that could constantly support a $75M+ payroll, and they were right.

Expos we’re ultra competitive from 92-94, and even 94 season they didn’t start drawing till late June….that’s completely unacceptable

You and I have had multiple exchanges on Expos ownership already and once again, I respectfully disagree with your position. I’ll leave it at that and not have to go back in circles eternally and never get anywhere.

All I’m going to say is that I’ve followed the team day in and day out on all of their salad days and into their decline, have read extensively throughout, have even interacted with high level employees of the Expos. You’re not going to convince me but I accept that I don’t need to convince you of anything either.

 

[1909]

Great, great news. No billionnaires team and stadium paid by people.

 

[dcyhabs]

Back in the 90s the Expos were way ahead the curve especially under Duquette and Malone in terms of being big students of sabermetrics guru Bill James and used that analytics approach in targeting young players when every other team i the league didn’t, by the early 2000s 90% of MLB teams had caught up - Mtl simply has no chance to compete w NYY, Sox, even STL like they once did because all of them not only have $, they also use analytics to the fullest and staff w the best available

It was also never shortsighted ownership, they knew Mtl simply wasn’t a baseball market that could constantly support a $75M+ payroll, and they were right.

Expos we’re ultra competitive from 92-94, and even 94 season they didn’t start drawing till late June….that’s completely unacceptable

The expos were around .500 40 games in, and then went on a tear in '94. People were willing to watch a winning team, but not an OK team, in a bad stadium. Baseball would be a tough sell in Montreal under ideal conditions, while selling any team playing in the big O in any city (taking location into account) would be a stretch.

The economics of major sports leagues require massive fan bases and/or massive subsidies. There is a lot of logic in ensuring players get half or more of the revenue, there is not much logic for that chunk to lead to players getting tens of millions per year. Take the government money out and let things shake down. No free stadia. We already bought PKP an arena for no good reason.

Montreal has the population for a baseball city, and then some, but not much else. Weather, fan interest, stadium, ownership...