Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose Coyotes Arena Talk: [Update] Land Auction Cancelled, Meruelo waiving ownership rights.

[Coyotedroppings]

So all 100 or so acres will be developed? That's two and a half times bigger than TED. I don't think people realize how big 100 acres are, especially in a city. I think TED was $1B in total cost so this will be around $2.5B. WOW.

I still question AM's financial wherewithal to pull this off. Ellman had an investor in Jerry Moyes.....

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I don't think it will happen, but if someone comes in a bids a crazy amount to the point you can't make a ROI you pull out. I know you and others blame AM for the TED vote, but when dumb society gets involved anything can happen. Tempe residences blew it big time, not AM. Anyway, it's water under the bridge, and this development is going to be bigger and better than whatever TED was going to be.

"dumb society" from the man who posts residences..... you can't make this shit up!

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think they have the COP on their side. Phoenix collecting all this tax money from a huge development that is basically in Scottsdale would be a huge feather in their cap.

I agree, but what if AM decides to take advantage of the Amusement District (should it pass) and also decides to collect a full 9% additional tax..... Do you think "dumb society" that already doesn't like increased taxes will have the desire to attend the district frequently, thereby allowing Phoenix to reap the tax benefits they would w/o said district?

Arizona legislation could help Coyotes arena financing, bring top-level soccer to Phoenix area

A former Arizona Coyotes executive is endorsing state legislation that he hopes will help a group unconnected to the team build a mixed-use development near Mesa that could include a professional soccer stadium.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

I don't know about any of the rest of y'all, but it seems like XG may be counting on this, as he denies any involvement.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

I still question AM's financial wherewithal to pull this off. Ellman had an investor in Jerry Moyes.....

@SR Weren't you saying there are other investors as well who will be in Meruelo's court on this? Gotta imagine it won't be just AM's money for this but whoever else is vesting an interest.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

@SR Weren't you saying there are other investors as well who will be in Meruelo's court on this? Gotta imagine it won't be just AM's money for this but whoever else is vesting an interest.

As I posted earlier, Ellman had an investor in Moyes.....

 

[MayDayMayDay]

As I posted earlier, Ellman had an investor in Moyes.....

Forgive me, I'm lacking some context here as that that pre-dates my time in AZ. More info please?

 

[TheLegend]

I agree, but what if AM decides to take advantage of the Amusement District (should it pass) and also decides to collect a full 9% additional tax..... Do you think "dumb society" that already doesn't like increased taxes will have the desire to attend the district frequently, thereby allowing Phoenix to reap the tax benefits they would w/o said district?

Arizona legislation could help Coyotes arena financing, bring top-level soccer to Phoenix area

A former Arizona Coyotes executive is endorsing state legislation that he hopes will help a group unconnected to the team build a mixed-use development near Mesa that could include a professional soccer stadium.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

I don't know about any of the resto of y'all, but it seems like XG is counting on this, as he denies any involvement.

The amusment park district tax is already there.

IIUI….. What Rising is attempting to do is change the current law to cut city and county governments from the decision process leaving it to the state to decide. Right now both have to be on board with it.

Cut those two out then you can streamline the process (fewer campaign donations needed) and reduce the possibility of public referendums down to zilch because the costs to get one become astronomical.

 

[TheLegend]

As I posted earlier, Ellman had an investor in Moyes.....

<cough>.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Forgive me, I'm lacking some context here as that that pre-dates my time in AZ. More info please?

That's a loaded question, given our history. You can research it, but suffice it to say.... shit can go wrong.

 

[Jakey53]

Yeah, don't think it works like a silent auction where you submit only one anonymous bid, like at a charity event. They can keep increasing their bid as necessary to win. They'd be competing in real time, Barrett-Jackson like.

Except that each time you bid it's $100,000.00 over the last bid.

 

[Jakey53]

I agree, but what if AM decides to take advantage of the Amusement District (should it pass) and also decides to collect a full 9% additional tax..... Do you think "dumb society" that already doesn't like increased taxes will have the desire to attend the district frequently, thereby allowing Phoenix to reap the tax benefits they would w/o said district?

Arizona legislation could help Coyotes arena financing, bring top-level soccer to Phoenix area

A former Arizona Coyotes executive is endorsing state legislation that he hopes will help a group unconnected to the team build a mixed-use development near Mesa that could include a professional soccer stadium.

www.sportsbusinessjournal.com

I don't know about any of the resto of y'all, but it seems like XG is counting on this, as he denies any involvement.

The public will decide if they want to visit area or not. As a developer most will take any benefit they have been given.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The amusment park district tax is already there.

IIUI….. What Rising is attempting to do is change the current law to cut city and county governments from the decision process leaving it to the state to decide. Right now both have to be on board with it.

Cut those two out then you can streamline the process (fewer campaign donations needed) and reduce the possibility of public referendums down to zilch because the costs to get one become astronomical.

I think we're looking at this in two different ways. To address what I think you're saying, I believe it has pass because of the deal Phx has with the Suns, No? If I'm correct the point becomes mute as far as the Yotes are concerned.

My point to Jakey was that this location runs the risk of becoming similar to Glendale, should an additional tax be levied. Please note, I said similar. I know the population density is higher, the incomes are greater, but at some point, when the shine wears thin, even folks with big bucks start to wonder why they're paying for what no longer seems a priveledge.

The public will decide if they want to visit area or not. As a developer most will take any benefit they have been given.

It's not a given Jakey, did you read the article? Seems to me that we have another former employee situation here, attempting to make things happen. You can read my post above responding to TL, regarding my thoughts on the public in this situation.

 

[TheLegend]

I think we're looking at this in two different ways. To address what I think you're saying, I believe it has pass because of the deal Phx has with the Suns, No? If I'm correct the point becomes mute as far as the Yotes are concerned.

My point to Jakey was that this location runs the risk of becoming similar to Glendale, should an additional tax be levied. Please note, I said similar. I know the population density is higher, the incomes are greater, but at some point, when the shine wears thin, even folks with big bucks start to wonder why they're paying for what no longer seems a priveledge.

The law was originally passed to aid the DBacks.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The law was originally passed to aid the DBacks.

And now the Dbacks have backed off. Is that not because Phx would need to approve and can't as currently written? This assumes that the Suns lease terms came into play after the original benefit to the Dbacks was realized, which I don't know with any certainty.

 

[SR]

@SR Weren't you saying there are other investors as well who will be in Meruelo's court on this? Gotta imagine it won't be just AM's money for this but whoever else is vesting an interest.

Yes and I have mentioned this quite a few times in this thread that I am sure CD has seen. They also had it on the news that AM and a handful investors are in on this project together.

As far as the validity of AM’s financials, take a look at the current grand Sierra resort he is building. Look at the money he invested into the mullet. Meruelo isn’t a pretender. He has the capital and the investors to back him on these projects. Money isn’t an issue. I think he’s shown that.

He also has that land purchase in Mesa still active.

 

[TheLegend]

And now the Dbacks have backed off. Is that not because Phx would need to approve and can't as currently written? This assumes that the Suns lease terms came into play after the original benefit to the Dbacks was realized, which I don't know with any certainty.

Yeah…. Kendrick said it was because he “didn’t want to put more cost on the fans.”

Then it comes out Phoenix has been looking to helping the county with the situation at Chase.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

That and they're comfortably spending more on this project than TED was supposed to cost too, arent they? Nothing looks like money could be a problem. Nothing.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Yes and I have mentioned this quite a few times in this thread that I am sure CD has seen. They also had it on the news that AM and a handful investors are in on this project together.

As far as the validity of AM’s financials, take a look at the current grand Sierra resort he is building. Look at the money he invested into the mullet. Meruelo isn’t a pretender. He has the capital and the investors to back him on these projects. Money isn’t an issue. I think he’s shown that.

He also has that land purchase in Mesa still active.

Yes, you've written it on at least three occasions now, I have read and acknowledged. I have no idea why you were asked again. My only question to you, is prompted by your response above and is really more of a statement and requires no answer from you. That questions is: Have you ever heard the phrase too many irons in the fire? It simply means he could be overextended due to ego, or for whatever reason. Don't get me wrong I (like all here) hope he pulls this off. But, he's continually looked for ways to supplement the cost of construction through creative taxation and appears to have a "maverick branding iron" in the fire, in the form of a former employee, that you can read about above. I can't blame them for making the effort, but I certainly hope they aren't counting on creative taxation, or it's rinse and repeat hockey arena in AZ.

Edit: As for Mesa, XG has stated it's N. Phx., or sell. I had also previously questioned that statement, as a red herring, for the very reason that Mesa was "supposedly" a potential site on the back burner.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

That and they're comfortably spending more on this project than TED was supposed to cost too, arent they? Nothing looks like money could be a problem. Nothing.

How are you garnering this "comfort" level?

 

[Mangosteen]

Many of you are old dogs here too. What's making this different from Glendale?

 

[SniperHF]

What's making this different from Glendale?

Are you referring to the location or the development plan?

 

[SR]

Yes, you've written it on at least three occasions now, I have read and acknowledged. I have no idea why you were asked again. My only question to you, is prompted by your response above and is really more of a statement and requires no answer from you. That questions is: Have you ever heard the phrase too many irons in the fire? It simply means he could be overextended due to ego, or for whatever reason. Don't get me wrong I (like all here) hope he pulls this off. But, he's continually looked for ways to supplement the cost of construction through creative taxation and appears to have a "maverick branding iron" in the fire, in the form of a former employee, that you can read about above. I can't blame them for making the effort, but I certainly hope they aren't counting on creative taxation, or it's rinse and repeat hockey arena in AZ.

Edit: As for Mesa, XG has stated it's N. Phx., or sell. I had also previously questioned that statement, as a red herring, for the very reason that Mesa was "supposedly" a potential site on the back burner.

I don’t think he has the cash flow to float this whole project, no. But he certainly has a large revenue stream. Most builds of this aspect always have additional investors. And yes, he, like any other land developer is going to try and squeeze whatever is available to him for money savings.

The Mesa site they had previous interest for the ED is still land he is going to pursue for non hockey related functions. Yes, you are right, it is the north Phoenix location or out as far as the hockey ED goes, but he still has the intent to purchase the county island land as a separate investment.

Edit: and by no means I am trying to come accross a prick,big guy. I can see if it might come accross that way, not my intentions at all, just want to provide what information that has been shared with me and not try and misconstrued anything.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I don’t think he has the cash flow to float this whole project, no. But he certainly has a large revenue stream. Most builds of this aspect always have additional investors. And yes, he, like any other land developer is going to try and squeeze whatever is available to him for money savings.

The Mesa site they had previous interest for the ED is still land he is going to pursue for non hockey related functions. Yes, you are right, it is the north Phoenix location or out as far as the hockey ED goes, but he still has the intent to purchase the county island land as a separate investment.

Edit: and by no means I am trying to come accross a prick big guy. I can see if it might come accross that way, not my intentions at all, just want to provide what information that has been shared with me and not try and misconstrued anything.

Hey, you're not coming off as a prick whatsoever. I appreciate your comments, particularly since I have no one left in the organization to provide me any information.... thinking of changing my user name, but hell, it's kinda funny. Likewise, I'm not trying to be a prick here, just the devils advocate, after all this is the Coyotes and we've seen investors come and go for various reason's/excuses.

In further skepticism it dawned on me that if he has had to increase the number of investors for this project, say over what he had for the TED, that could detract from funds from the ED, that we are all hoping makes the team viable.

I had forgotten that he had plans to proceed with the Mesa site for other endeavors, so that's even more irons.

Many of you are old dogs here too. What's making this different from Glendale?

What's old is new and I often can't help but feeling some deja vu!

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

How are you garnering this "comfort" level?

Why not? I haven't heard of anything that sounds like financial issues other than speculation on HFB. It's typical for there to be many investors involved in projects this large, so it's not all on his finances alone.

Are you worried he can't afford this either? Or any of his many other ventures?

Bringing Las Vegas to Reno: Why Alex Meruelo is betting $1 billion on the BLC

When SR says that AM is still intent on other non-hockey real estate developments in AZ too, I believe it. It's not about having all the money, it's about having access to all the money. I think he's got access.

His financial capabilities have been vetted by two cities just in Arizona. Add Reno to that list and any others and he's met all of their financial requirements.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Why not? I haven't heard of anything that sounds like financial issues other than speculation on HFB. It's typical for there to be many investors involved in projects this large, so it's not all on his finances alone.

Are you worried he can't afford this either? Or any of his many other ventures?

Bringing Las Vegas to Reno: Why Alex Meruelo is betting $1 billion on the BLC

When SR says that AM is still intent on other non-hockey real estate developments in AZ too, I believe it. It's not about having all the money, it's about having access to all the money. I think he's got access.

His financial capabilities have been vetted by two cities now too.

Why? No disrespect, but that's some positive thinking and while there's nothing wrong with that, it can be subject to question. That is to say you have no more proof that he can accomplish this, than I do that what you're relying on as "proof" isn't just a house of cards.

Again, I hope this goes down as much or possible even considerably more than most, but these guys have provided cause for skepticism. My reasons for being skeptical are explained in a myriad of previous posts.