All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

You mean his master plan wasnt to sign Gomez so he could trade him 2 years later for McDonagh and the cap space to sign Gaborik?

I wish it was because at least I would have some hope that there was a larger plan behind giving Richards 9 years.

 

[Jabroni]

I wish it was because at least I would have some hope that there was a larger plan behind giving Richards 9 years.

Maybe the long term plan was 2-3 years with Richards still in his prime, then buy out?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Maybe the long term plan was 2-3 years with Richards still in his prime, then buy out?

And saddle the team with a cap hit? Or are you suggesting that Sather knew there would be amnesties in the new CBA?

 

[Ail]

The smart move is to build a team that's built for the long haul, that way you have a legitimate chance at the Cup every year.

That's my stance as well. If you read around here the past week however you will see we are a minority.

 

[Bluenote13]

Most teams try to build for the longer haul but understand that with the modern salary capped/FA NHL there is a lot of turnover so there is no one way to build in this league. They know that they have to look at the draft, trades and FA to build their teams. They can no longer just draft and wait. That is part of the reason we have some parity and a new cup champion almost every year instead of the 3-5 year dynasties that the Habs, Isles and Oilers had in the past.

That's my stance as well. If you read around here the past week however you will see we are a minority.

The cap, the draft %, turnover, all excuses.

Teams can have up and down years, and turnover part of their roster, but the core of what is built stays. Here in NY that starts with #30. After that it's taken 13 years to get some respectable but unspectacular cheap talent that can compete night in night out, while still having to rely on big money contract mercs as some of the most important players.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It did not take Slats 13 years to get the team to respectability. Our core group is not much different in size than most teams. The LA Kings won the cup last season with a bunch of new players. The Penguins trade for players all the time. If there was one way to build a team that was sure to lead to cup success every team would be doing it. Sadly there is not. I f there was you could tell me for sure who will win the cup this year but you can not.

 

[Trxjw]

The salary cap is a hindrance, but if you spend the money on the right players then you can field a competitive team year after year. Look where the perennial contenders invest their money. They retain the core pieces and build around it with cheaper FA's, role players, and a steady cycle of other home grown pieces.

Say what you want about the Pens and their tanking, but Ray Shero has done a spectacular job of building that team to be competitive year after year. He has fantastic supporting players and keeps the talent pool stocked in the right places. He also spends the money he has in the proper areas.

Each year we field a team full of mercenaries, spend the year wondering what's going wrong, and then scrap it and build a new squad on July 1st.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Say what you want about the Pens and their tanking, but Ray Shero has done a spectacular job of building that team to be competitive year after year. He has fantastic supporting players and keeps the talent pool stocked in the right places. He also spends the money he has in the proper areas.

Agreed. Of course, it helps when you can build around to best and arguably second-best player in the league.

But, yes, if you're going to be lousy, be lousy at the right time.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Agreed. Of course, it helps when you can build around to best and arguably second-best player in the league.

But, yes, if you're going to be lousy, be lousy at the right time.

This is an important point, also. Rangers tried to tank a bit and stockpile picks for the 1999 draft -- it also happened to be one of the worst drafts in league history. Oops.

 

[NikC]

The salary cap is a hindrance, but if you spend the money on the right players then you can field a competitive team year after year. Look where the perennial contenders invest their money. They retain the core pieces and build around it with cheaper FA's, role players, and a steady cycle of other home grown pieces.

Say what you want about the Pens and their tanking, but Ray Shero has done a spectacular job of building that team to be competitive year after year. He has fantastic supporting players and keeps the talent pool stocked in the right places. He also spends the money he has in the proper areas.

Each year we field a team full of mercenaries, spend the year wondering what's going wrong, and then scrap it and build a new squad on July 1st.

you can say a lot about the pens and their drafting as if it takes skill to inherit the best players in the world at all of your most important positions. 3 #1C's Not to mention a closed door draft for Cindy. it sure is easy when you have top young talent, signed at reasonable prices, making outside acquisitions more prudently and cost effective.

I'll give the players on that team props for their talent, but i can't believe you would stoop so low as to champion that welfare franchise and kick $hit at the team you follow. You're assessment of this team currently is nothing more than exaggeration

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

you can say a lot about the pens and their drafting as if it takes skill to inherit the best players in the world at all of your most important positions. 3 #1C's Not to mention a closed door draft for Cindy. it sure is easy when you have top young talent, signed at reasonable prices, making outside acquisitions more prudently and cost effective.

I'll give the players on that team props for their talent, but i can't believe you would stoop so low as to champion that welfare franchise and kick $hit at the team you follow. You're assessment of this team currently is nothing more than exaggeration

Give me a break with the homer stuff.

Its your right to cast stones at one of the best franchises in the league post-lockout, while the Rangers continue to toil in mediocrity. Its childish and you add nothing to the conversation by doing it, but its your right.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Lets say the Pens do almost everything right and are the shining example of how to do things and Slats is awful and does almost everything wrong. How come the Pens have only won 1 cup more than we have in the last 10 years or so since they drafted Malkin, Crosby, Staal and Fleury with two number one overall picks and two #2 overall draft picks? In those 10 years Pitt probably has a better record but not a dramatically better record. If Pitt is near perfect and Slats is horrible why do the records not reflect that despite Pitt having four top 1-2 picks that Slats has not had?

 

[Bluenote13]

It did not take Slats 13 years to get the team to respectability. Our core group is not much different in size than most teams. The LA Kings won the cup last season with a bunch of new players. The Penguins trade for players all the time. If there was one way to build a team that was sure to lead to cup success every team would be doing it. Sadly there is not. I f there was you could tell me for sure who will win the cup this year but you can not.

All I see here is horrible standards, you give them no accountability basically, how can I take that seriously?

 

[Trxjw]

Agreed. Of course, it helps when you can build around to best and arguably second-best player in the league.

But, yes, if you're going to be lousy, be lousy at the right time.

It does help, but there are plenty of good players on that team that have come from picks outside of the top-5, or from very shrewd trades / FA acquisitions. He's built the right group of players to complement his elite, big money talents.

This is an important point, also. Rangers tried to tank a bit and stockpile picks for the 1999 draft -- it also happened to be one of the worst drafts in league history. Oops.

That was definitely unfortunate. However, they never should have tried to put all of their eggs in one basket. They went full blown "This draft is going to save Neil Smith's career with the Rangers" and dealt away a future 1st and one of the top organizational prospects in Marc Savard. Meanwhile, only a few months before, they gave up two picks in the 2000 draft for Mike Knuble, only to trade him a season later.

That whole draft echoed the "right now is what matters" mantra that still plagues this team. No eye towards the future.

 

[NickyFotiu]

All I see here is horrible standards, you give them no accountability basically, how can I take that seriously?

Horrible standards? No accountability? The team will have made the playoffs in 7 of the last 8 seasons with the only exception being a season we lost in a shootout on the final day of the season.

This team has had seasons of 100,97,94,95, 87,93, and 109 points since 2005. How is that a horrible standard?

If you know exactly how to win a cup and Slats is so horrible in comparison to your knowledge why is he in the hockey hall of fame and you are not running the Rangers?

 

[JohnC]

If you know exactly how to win a cup and Slats is so horrible in comparison to your knowledge why is he in the hockey hall of fame and you are not running the Rangers?

1980's. Edmonton. Oilers.

 

[Bluenote13]

TRX, the '99 draft by ALL accounts, not just one or ten teams, but ALL the league thought that draft was going to be a once in decade type draft, the new millenium was upon us

The timing was right too. We had no one. Savard was still too small by the 1990's mentality, Richter was still 'ok' so Cloutier was expendable. The #1 the year after was read correctly, that was not a good draft, better to have two in '99 than one in 2000. That was the mindset back then. Neil Smith made alot of bad moves and post Cup the picks were so far from good, but I think he gets an unfair amount of abuse for trying to inject the system with more youth to go along with Manny taken a year earlier, and they were two guys that had been pretty fantastic skilled phenoms.

 

[RangerBoy]

Thank goodness for the salary cap. The Rangers would have a $200M payroll by now.

The new NBA luxury tax even scared Dolan from spending crazy dollars. Mr. 85% was a cap casualty.

Every year the Rangers seem to swing for the fences. Chris Drury. Scott Gomez. Wade Redden. Marian Gaborik. Brad Richards. Rick Nash. Who's next?

 

[Tawnos]

The problem with listing the Rangers point totals is that you have only two years in which the Rangers were considered legitimately competitors for the Cup at the beginning of the playoffs. And one of them, they got swept in the first round

 

[Trxjw]

you can say a lot about the pens and their drafting as if it takes skill to inherit the best players in the world at all of your most important positions. 3 #1C's Not to mention a closed door draft for Cindy. it sure is easy when you have top young talent, signed at reasonable prices, making outside acquisitions more prudently and cost effective.

You can thumb your nose at them all you like, but it makes you look foolish. Sure, he landed two of the best players in the game, but he also flipped Alex Goligoski for James Neal and Matt Niskanen, traded Ryan Whitney for Chris Kunitz, drafted Kris Letang in the 3rd round, made a bold move to trade up to ensure they could draft a franchise goalie, and turned Jordan Staal into three very good assets when there were only two teams in the league who he was realistically interested in re-signing with.

Who do you think signed that "top young talent" to "reasonable prices"?

I'll give the players on that team props for their talent, but i can't believe you would stoop so low as to champion that welfare franchise and kick $hit at the team you follow. You're assessment of this team currently is nothing more than exaggeration

Your "assessment" of my post is nothing more than the same drivel that most Rangers fans like to trot out when their team is criticized. Thumb your nose at a team who is a perennial contender because "We didn't have to tank!" and yet here we are, struggling to make the playoffs again while the Pens have the #1 seed locked up again and are favorites to win the cup again.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The problem with listing the Rangers point totals is that you have two years in which the Rangers were considered legitimately competitors for the Cup at the beginning of the playoffs. And one of them, they got swept in the first round

Beneath Lundqvist and a super human performance by Jagr, that 05-06 team was brutal. The slipper fell off that team about a month before the regular season ended.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The problem with listing the Rangers point totals is that you have two years in which the Rangers were considered legitimately competitors for the Cup at the beginning of the playoffs. And one of them, they got swept in the first round

If they were considered to be legit cup contenders than Slats could not be doing a horrible job.

 

[RangerBoy]

If the Rangers make the playoffs and are the 8th seed,game one is on May 1. There is a concert in Pittsburgh on April 30.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

Lets say the Pens do almost everything right and are the shining example of how to do things and Slats is awful and does almost everything wrong. How come the Pens have only won 1 cup more than we have in the last 10 years or so since they drafted Malkin, Crosby, Staal and Fleury with two number one overall picks and two #2 overall draft picks? In those 10 years Pitt probably has a better record but not a dramatically better record. If Pitt is near perfect and Slats is horrible why do the records not reflect that despite Pitt having four top 1-2 picks that Slats has not had?

But it does show considering they won a ******* Stanley Cup. They made it to the Finals in consecutive years. Losing to the Capitals in Game 6 last season forced a Game 7 which became the deepest run we had made in forever. That's awful.

 

[Tawnos]

Beneath Lundqvist and a super human performance by Jagr, that 05-06 team was brutal. The slipper fell off that team about a month before the regular season ended.

I'm not saying they deserved to be considered legitimate, just that they were.