All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

[NickyFotiu]

If Sather is signing players based on what the fans want, then he is the problem.

Slats could not care less what players the fans want. What I was saying is often the players Slats signs are players the fans, and media are happy he signed.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Yeah, it's been 13 years. The only player on the roster in 2006 that is here now is Lundqvist.

He's gone through coaches, he's recycled through rosters (look at the changes between 2008 and now), and yet the end result has been the same - mediocrity, for all but one, one season.

He needs to go. It cannot be overstated. This franchise will not take the next step until he is gone.

What's the next step? Being an elite team? We were that last year. Winning a cup? We were incredibly close last year.

That sort of broad sweeping statement is ridiculous and contrary to everything we know about sports. Hell, this year we can still take the "next step". An 8 seed won the cup last year.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

What's the next step? Being an elite team? We were that last year. Winning a cup? We were incredibly close last year.

That sort of broad sweeping statement is ridiculous and contrary to everything we know about sports. Hell, this year we can still take the "next step". An 8 seed won the cup last year.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thought LA was a legitimate 8th seed is crazy. Most experts were calling them a Cup favorite before the 2011-12 season started. It was Doughty's contract holdout and poor coaching at the start of the season that temporarily derailed them.

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE NOT an elite team last year. They won by hard work, grit & the world's best goalie having his career season - not talent.

Hockey is one of those sports where stats tell next to nothing about the whole story. You have to actually watch the game and get a good feel of the league and teams to know what's going on.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Any decent hockey mind could have told you that:

- Drury wasn't worth $7.5M, and, ideally, he wasn't a 2C on a contending team
- Gomez wasn't worth $7.3M, and, ideally he wasn't a 1C, or even a 2C, on a contending team

It was a huge blunder. Sather managed to worm his way out of these contracts, but it took him time and money to do so, and it also took away open roster spots for players that might have been more deserving.

That's some bold revisionist history there. Drury wasn't even a number 2 center? The guy was coming off of 2 straight 30+ goal, 65+ point seasons. The most recent of which he scored 37 goals. And he played terrific D, was a PK guy and helped out on the PP.

Gomez was coming off 3 straight 60 point seasons, one of which was good for over 70 points and one of which was good for over 82 (better than a ppg pace). That's not a number 2c either?

Please, these guys would have been paid elsewhere at very similar if not the same or better rates elsewhere had they not signed here. There's enough to criticize without making stuff up.

 

[Kershaw]

That's some bold revisionist history there. Drury wasn't even a number 2 center? The guy was coming off of 2 straight 30+ goal, 65+ point seasons. The most recent of which he scored 37 goals. And he played terrific D, was a PK guy and helped out on the PP.

Gomez was coming off 3 straight 60 point seasons, one of which was good for over 70 points and one of which was good for over 82 (better than a ppg pace). That's not a number 2c either?

Please, these guys would have been paid elsewhere at very similar if not the same or better rates elsewhere had they not signed here. There's enough to criticize without making stuff up.

This. Gomez and Drury were both 1st line players before putting on the Bluershirt. Drury a 3rd line C? lol What 3rd line Cs score 37 goals

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I'm sorry, but anyone who thought LA was a legitimate 8th seed is crazy. Most experts were calling them a Cup favorite before the 2011-12 season started. It was Doughty's contract holdout and poor coaching at the start of the season that temporarily derailed them.

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE NOT an elite team last year. They won by hard work, grit & the world's best goalie having his career season - not talent.

Hockey is one of those sports where stats tell next to nothing about the whole story. You have to actually watch the game and get a good feel of the league and teams to know what's going on.

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE an elite team last year. Check the ****ing standings. You don't lose points for winning by playing a blue collar style with a goalie who you pay handsomely.

As for the LA stuff, sounds an awful lot like us this year.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

This. Gomez and Drury were both 1st line players before putting on the Bluershirt. Drury a 3rd line C? lol What 3rd line Cs score 37 goals

Ones that specialize in producing on the PP. He had 16 and 17 PP goals those two years. And also ones that have a ridiculous 17.4 and 18.6 shot percentages.

They were a 2c and 3C on their respective teams. Fact. They came here, were put in roles they shouldn't have been put in, and failed. It's not revisionist.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE an elite team last year. Check the ****ing standings. You don't lose points for winning by playing a blue collar style with a goalie who you pay handsomely.

As for the LA stuff, sounds an awful lot like us this year.

Especially the poor coaching part.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE an elite team last year. Check the ****ing standings. You don't lose points for winning by playing a blue collar style with a goalie who you pay handsomely.

As for the LA stuff, sounds an awful lot like us this year.

lol, no.

Take a look at the talent on the Rangers roster last year. Not even in the same stratosphere as the Penguins, Kings, Blackhawks, etc.

Rangers talent in 2010-11 was middle of the pack at best. Only elite qualities they had was their starting netminder and their unmatched work ethic.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

lol, no.

Take a look at the talent on the Rangers roster last year. Not even in the same stratosphere as the Penguins, Kings, Blackhawks, etc.

Rangers talent in 2010-11 was middle of the pack at best. Only elite qualities they had was their starting netminder and their unmatched work ethic.

Their defensive group was elite when healthy.

Forwards were a problem in the playoffs, though, a lot of big names struggled to put up goals, namely Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Callahan, Anisimov, and Dubinsky. That's a good chunk of the top-9 that wasn't producing. Frankly, it's amazing we got as far as we did last year.

 

[Riverdale]

Rangers were ELITE last year? Hahaha

Ridiculous. The defense was elite, sure. The offense was putrid, just like it is now. That is not an elite team.

 

[JohnC]

But we finished first in the East last year and made it to the conference finals!!!!1!!!1111

 

[Kershaw]

Ones that specialize in producing on the PP. He had 16 and 17 PP goals those two years. And also ones that have a ridiculous 17.4 and 18.6 shot percentages.

They were a 2c and 3C on their respective teams. Fact. They came here, were put in roles they shouldn't have been put in, and failed. It's not revisionist.

I had no idea Drury's sh% was that high. My bad, I agree with you 100%. Gomez was definitely sheltered by Madden and Zajac from facing top lines. Drury, well everyone on that Sabres team had a career year.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Rangers were ELITE last year? Hahaha

Ridiculous. The defense was elite, sure. The offense was putrid, just like it is now. That is not an elite team.

It was putrid in the playoffs, but we finished 11th in the league in goals for last season. Nothing special, but far from putrid. Players just didn't produce in the playoffs.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I had no idea Drury's sh% was that high. My bad, I agree with you 100%. Gomez was definitely sheltered by Madden and Zajac from facing top lines. Drury, well everyone on that Sabres team had a career year.

Drury specialized in scoring garbage/deflection goals in front of the net on the PP on a team LOADED, and I mean LOADED with offensive talent. Max Afinigenov, Thomas Vanek, Derek Roy, Jason Pominville, Danny Briere, Jochen Hecht, and of course Drury. All of these players were in their primes, and all of them had over 50+ points. They also had an elite PPQB in Brian Campbell, he had 48 points that year.

 

[Kershaw]

Rangers were ELITE last year? Hahaha

Ridiculous. The defense was elite, sure. The offense was putrid, just like it is now. That is not an elite team.

They were elite last yr because of the defense and Lundqvist playing best hockey of his career alongside an above average offense with players having a lot of chemistry.

 

[Zil]

Their defensive group was elite when healthy.

Forwards were a problem in the playoffs, though, a lot of big names struggled to put up goals, namely Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Callahan, Anisimov, and Dubinsky. That's a good chunk of the top-9 that wasn't producing. Frankly, it's amazing we got as far as we did last year.

Torts has admitted that he doesn't coach them on offense. Stuff like Girardi's continued presence not only on the powerplay, but on the first unit goes to show how little of a clue Torts has offensively. Hell, Boyle was playing on the powerplay before he got hurt. He doesn't put the team in the best position to win. Why don't any of Moore, McDonagh, Del Zotto, or Stralman play on the first unit ahead of Girardi? If Torts can't trust Kreider even strength, then why can't he at least give him a look in front of the net on the powerplay? Play to your roster's strengths.

This squad is woefully undercoached offensively and it shows. Guys skate past the net rather than stopping in front of it. They're late getting to the front to create screens. Skaters often look reluctant to shoot. Everything adds up to an inconsistent, under performing offense.

 

[haveandare]

The team had elite goaltending and defense and middle of the pack offense for the regular season. No team has an elite goalie, d and offense. Two out of three is about as good as it's going to get these days.

I know that the team is disappointing this year, but last year was a huge success and nothing to scoff at.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Torts has admitted that he doesn't coach them on offense. Stuff like Girardi's continued presence not only on the powerplay, but on the first unit goes to show how little of a clue Torts has offensively. Hell, Boyle was playing on the powerplay before he got hurt. He doesn't put the team in the best position to win. Why don't any of Moore, McDonagh, Del Zotto, or Stralman play on the first unit ahead of Girardi? If Torts can't trust Kreider even strength, then why can't he at least give him a look in front of the net on the powerplay? Play to your roster's strengths.

This squad is woefully undercoached offensively and it shows. Guys skate past the net rather than stopping in front of it. They're late getting to the front to create screens. Skaters often look reluctant to shoot. Everything adds up to an inconsistent, under performing offense.

Yeah, I agree. This team lacks offensive fundamentals.

It's the problem this team has had for years, dating back to even 08-09, although, to be fair to Renney, that was an embarrassingly bad roster.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Their defensive group was elite when healthy.

Forwards were a problem in the playoffs, though, a lot of big names struggled to put up goals, namely Hagelin, Stepan, Gaborik, Callahan, Anisimov, and Dubinsky. That's a good chunk of the top-9 that wasn't producing. Frankly, it's amazing we got as far as we did last year.

But the defense wasn't healthy. That's the point. The Rangers were missing a key D for the last 2/3rds and playoffs. Rangers defense is very good, but lacks depth.

And guys like Hagelin, Stephan (at that stage of his development last season), Callahan and Anisimov wouldn't be classified as big names on a legitimate cup contender. Most of those guys would generally slot in as elite 3rd liners on a contender.

There are times when hard work trumps talent. It happens. The Rangers nearly pulled it off last season. But that does not make them elite.

 

[Kershaw]

Drury specialized in scoring garbage/deflection goals in front of the net on the PP on a team LOADED, and I mean LOADED with offensive talent. Max Afinigenov, Thomas Vanek, Derek Roy, Jason Pominville, Danny Briere, Jochen Hecht, and of course Drury. All of these players were in their primes, and all of them had over 50+ points. They also had an elite PPQB in Brian Campbell, he had 48 points that year.

Also had Zubrus, Kotalik, Stafford, Gaustad and Connolly. Yeah they were pretty loaded that year. Defense of that team aside from Campbell and Numminen was very iffy.

 

[Ail]

Simple fact is, the Rangers WERE an elite team last year. Check the ****ing standings. You don't lose points for winning by playing a blue collar style with a goalie who you pay handsomely.

As for the LA stuff, sounds an awful lot like us this year.

Guess they should fire Torts then if they want to really win the Cup this year.

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Yeah, it's been 13 years. The only player on the roster in 2006 that is here now is Lundqvist.

He's gone through coaches, he's recycled through rosters (look at the changes between 2008 and now), and yet the end result has been the same - mediocrity, for all but one, one season.

He needs to go. It cannot be overstated. This franchise will not take the next step until he is gone.

Brother are you 100% on the money. I can't believe it that some fans around here actually believe that Sather has done a good job as GM when in reality he is a senile old fool who is out of touch with the league and he hasn't accomplished a damn thing in hockey in well over 20 years!

 

[Drewbackatu*]

Rangers were ELITE last year? Hahaha

Ridiculous. The defense was elite, sure. The offense was putrid, just like it is now. That is not an elite team.

How can you have an elite defense when we don't have a any defenseman on the roster who is close to elite? The defense when healthy is solid, very good. Only the goaltender is elite!

 

[Drewbackatu*]

But we finished first in the East last year and made it to the conference finals!!!!1!!!1111

We overachieved and the stars were aligned last year. Classifying last year's team as elite is a joke!