All Encompassing Tortorella..ella..ella..eh..eh...and Glen Cigar Thread Part III

[NYR Sting]

I just dont think its entirely fair to say "Oh man, we're back to the status quo" considering how strange this lockout shortened season has been. Its not an apples to apples comparison.

Depends on which status quo we're talking about. One status quo, perhaps the most important one, has never been abandoned: filling the most important role on the team with a free agent.

Can you name the last team to win a Cup where their most important offensive player wasn't either drafted and developed by that club, or traded for at a very early point in the player's career?

I'm pretty sure the answer is the '94 Rangers. The 17 champions since didn't need to go outside the organization to find their most important gamebreaking talent.

 

[MortUWary]

For a group who likes to talk about the rangers so much you guys don't do too much listening to the rangers. Torts has personally given you a lot more to go on between 24/7, radio appearances, and the MSG behind the bench show. Also, listen to what players have to say about him. He's not the caricature some of you make him out to be. He's brought along a lot of guys over his career and he has more than just "yell" in the playbook. He's an emotional and honest guy, but he gives out a ton of positive reinforcement. You guys seem to want a cheerleader, but those guys get tuned out even faster because if praise is that easy to come by it becomes meaningless. When torts goes over to a player and gives him a pat on the back, that's meaningful. And frequently his "negative" public comments actually show faith in a player's ability. When he says he expects more from a guy, that shows he has faith that guy has more. That's incredibly positive. It would be negative to say, yeah that guy is doing all he can when what he's doing isn't impressive.

You're painting with a broad brush here. Don't lump me in to "a group who talks about the Rangers so much that I don't [listen]". I go by what I see. Meteorologists can say it's not raining, but if I go outside and see dark skies and water fallng from the sky, I'm not going to say "well, [they] said it wasn't raining, so it must be something else." I don't drink Tortorella's Kool-Aid. He can be engaging and insightful on Behind the Bench or when interviewed by Sam Rosen before games. The issue is that he's not consistent with his actions. From "safe is death" to his own actions in the Washington playoff series during his first season to how he handled Avery, the guy's words and actions simply aren't consistent.

He's had no issues benching Gaborik, Dubinsky and Del Zotto for miscues and brain farts, but when has he glued Richards to the bench after blind turnovers? Callahan and Girardi have made their fair share of boneheaded mistakes, but right/wrong/otherwise, do you mean to tell me that everyone is held to the same standard? I'm sick of the act and refuse to take anything he says at face value. I go by what I see and let me tell you, it's raining outside. Forget what "they" are telling you.

I find it very strange that a team with such an intense coach can so often play for loooooong stretches at a time with no intensity whatsoever.

Amen.

 

[The Gloaming]

Lol at Anisimov being close to Nash. We're talking about the guy who went 17 games without a point, right?

 

[ImIdaho]

I think we're past the point of Torts having a control of the team. Team played like ****, he'd rip them a new one and they at least played decent hockey. Long gone since he approached a player who has been playing like **** or his boneheaded play allowed the other team to score a goal, and Torts gave him a sarcastic pat on the back while berating the player.

You have to be a serious Torts homer to the nth degree to not notice that these players - for the most part - look lost and Torts himself has exuded a befuddled and empty look for a lot of games. There is only one other coach that I have seen the same thing Torts is currently doing and that's Laviolette.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Depends on which status quo we're talking about. One status quo, perhaps the most important one, has never been abandoned: filling the most important role on the team with a free agent.

Can you name the last team to win a Cup where their most important offensive player wasn't either drafted and developed by that club, or traded for at a very early point in the player's career?

I'm pretty sure the answer is the '94 Rangers. The 17 champions since didn't need to go outside the organization to find their most important gamebreaking talent.

Its a tough one. Rangers management just will not commit to a rebuild, and with Lundqvist, why should they? They should have done that a decade ago.

So, if youre not going to suck, theres 2 other alternatives - hope to strike an elite offensive talent around the 15th or 20th spot in the draft, or acquire outside the organization.

Failure on all 3 of these fronts brings you to the Rangers today. The only one Sather has ever really committed to is going outside the organization, and thats been a ****ing horror show because he makes such bad decisions.

 

[RiceCooker]

Torts new strategy should be...."Forget every thing I've tried to teach you so far..See that little frozen black thing...Put it in the back of the net" !!

 

[NYR Sting]

Its a tough one. Rangers management just will not commit to a rebuild, and with Lundqvist, why should they? They should have done that a decade ago.

So, if youre not going to suck, theres 2 other alternatives - hope to strike an elite offensive talent around the 15th or 20th spot in the draft, or acquire outside the organization.

Failure on all 3 of these fronts brings you to the Rangers today. The only one Sather has ever really committed to is going outside the organization, and thats been a ****ing horror show because he makes such bad decisions.

The endless debates about the coach, year after year, coaching regime after coaching regime, are laughable. No coach can win without great players.

World class talent wins championships. Even the best coaches all had great players. The Rangers don't have world class talent outside of their goaltender.

Bring in any coach you want, not much will change.

Change the guy building the roster, and then, only then, will there be the possibility of finding that talent. If you don't want to rebuild and obtain high draft picks, then hire a general manager that can get you that talent through different means. Glen Sather has had 13 years, and he has yet to do so.

 

[MortUWary]

The endless debates about the coach, year after year, coaching regime after coaching regime, are laughable. No coach can win without great players.

World class talent wins championships. Even the best coaches all had great players. The Rangers don't have world class talent outside of their goaltender.

Bring in any coach you want, not much will change.

Change the guy building the roster, and then, only then, will there be the possibility of finding that talent. If you don't want to rebuild and obtain high draft picks, then hire a general manager that can get you that talent through different means. Glen Sather has had 13 years, and he has yet to do so.

The Carolina Hurricanes won 52 games and a Stanley Cup in 2005-06. Is this a "World Class" roster?

• Eric Staal
• Justin Williams
• Cory Stillman
• Rod Brind'Amour
• Erik Cole
• Ray Whitney
• Matt Cullen
• Frantisek Kaberle
• Bret Hedican
• Aaron Ward
• Kevyn Adams
• Oleg Tverdovsky
• Craig Adams
• Doug Weight
• Mike Commodore
• Chad Larose
• Andrew Ladd
• Andrew Hutchinson
• Glen Wesley
• Josef Vasicek
• Niclas Wallin
• Mark Recchi
• Niklas Nordgren
• Anton Babchuk
• Radim Vrbata
• Mike Zigomanis
• David Gove
• Keith Aucoin
• Danny Richmond
• Jesse Boulerice
• Cam Ward
• Martin Gerber

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The Carolina Hurricanes won 52 games and a Stanley Cup in 2005-06. Is this a "World Class" roster?

• Eric Staal
• Justin Williams
• Cory Stillman
• Rod Brind'Amour
• Erik Cole
• Ray Whitney
• Matt Cullen
• Frantisek Kaberle
• Bret Hedican
• Aaron Ward
• Kevyn Adams
• Oleg Tverdovsky
• Craig Adams
• Doug Weight
• Mike Commodore
• Chad Larose
• Andrew Ladd
• Andrew Hutchinson
• Glen Wesley
• Josef Vasicek
• Niclas Wallin
• Mark Recchi
• Niklas Nordgren
• Anton Babchuk
• Radim Vrbata
• Mike Zigomanis
• David Gove
• Keith Aucoin
• Danny Richmond
• Jesse Boulerice
• Cam Ward
• Martin Gerber

Ha, good one. You really showed us.

Eric Staal and Cam Ward played like elite players that year, thats for sure. But lets hope we can be the 2005-2006 Hurricanes. A war cry for all Ranger fans.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

The Carolina Hurricanes won 52 games and a Stanley Cup in 2005-06. Is this a "World Class" roster?

• Eric Staal
• Justin Williams
• Cory Stillman
• Rod Brind'Amour
• Erik Cole
• Ray Whitney
• Matt Cullen
• Frantisek Kaberle
• Bret Hedican
• Aaron Ward
• Kevyn Adams
• Oleg Tverdovsky
• Craig Adams
• Doug Weight
• Mike Commodore
• Chad Larose
• Andrew Ladd
• Andrew Hutchinson
• Glen Wesley
• Josef Vasicek
• Niclas Wallin
• Mark Recchi
• Niklas Nordgren
• Anton Babchuk
• Radim Vrbata
• Mike Zigomanis
• David Gove
• Keith Aucoin
• Danny Richmond
• Jesse Boulerice
• Cam Ward
• Martin Gerber

That's a fantastic set of forwards.

Weight, Brind'Amour, and Staal were all 60+ point centers that year. Stillman, Recchi, Whitney, Williams and Cole round out the complimnetary scorers. Ladd, LaRose, Vasicek, and Wesley round out the role players.

Ward was also an elite goalie during their playoff run.

Their D was not very good, but they played well in their roles. Their offense won them that cup.

 

[MortUWary]

Ha, good one. You really showed us.

Eric Staal and Cam Ward played like elite players that year, thats for sure. But lets hope we can be the 2005-2006 Hurricanes. A war cry for all Ranger fans.

Lundqvist has the ability to get insanely hot. Nash has the ability to take over games. Callahan and Stepan should be able to play smart, productive 2 way hockey. Staal, Girardi and McDonagh can be defensive stalwarts and log a lot of ice time. Richards is a question mark. Clowe has been great in the playoffs for San Jose. The question is can they all put it together?

I have no clue and sadly, I don't see the coach having one either, but I will always "Bleed Blue" and pull for this team. It just sucks to see them struggle to get into the playoffs. For the majority of last season, this team had an identity. They still struggled to generate consistent offense, especially in the playoffs, but they had an identity. This season is a different story. It's been an identity crisis. The Islanders are the exciting hard-working team from NY right now. It pains me to type that.

Anything can happen in the playoffs once you're in there, but this team has given no indication that they can be a dominant team. Make no mistake, this collection of players is not last season's Kings. BUT... They have the best goaltender in the world. Anything can happen and for our sake, I hope to God that it does. LGR!

 

[MortUWary]

That's a fantastic set of forwards.

Weight, Brind'Amour, and Staal were all 60+ point centers that year. Stillman, Recchi, Whitney, Williams and Cole round out the complimnetary scorers. Ladd, LaRose, Vasicek, and Wesley round out the role players.

Ward was also an elite goalie during their playoff run.

Their D was not very good, but they played well in their roles. Their offense won them that cup.

Yes, fantastic forwards, but the comment that Sting made was you need "World Class" players. Maybe I'm biased, but I'd take our roster right now and last season over that one. I wouldn't want either coach though (Laviolette or Tortorella).

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Yes, fantastic forwards, but the comment that Sting made was you need "World Class" players. Maybe I'm biased, but I'd take our roster right now and last season over that one. I wouldn't want either coach though (Laviolette or Tortorella).

I'd easily take Laviolette, he'd be the perfect coach for this team. He is an offensive-minded coach.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Lundqvist has the ability to get insanely hot. Nash has the ability to take over games. Callahan and Stepan should be able to play smart, productive 2 way hockey. Staal, Girardi and McDonagh can be defensive stalwarts and log a lot of ice time. Richards is a question mark. Clowe has been great in the playoffs for San Jose. The question is can they all put it together?

I have no clue and sadly, I don't see the coach having one either, but I will always "Bleed Blue" and pull for this team. It just sucks to see them struggle to get into the playoffs. For the majority of last season, this team had an identity. They still struggled to generate consistent offense, especially in the playoffs, but they had an identity. This season is a different story. It's been an identity crisis. The Islanders are the exciting hard-working team from NY right now. It pains me to type that.

Anything can happen in the playoffs once you're in there, but this team has given no indication that they can be a dominant team. Make no mistake, this collection of players is not last season's Kings. BUT... They have the best goaltender in the world. Anything can happen and for our sake, I hope to God that it does. LGR!

Sheesh. Now I know why the New York State lottery advertises so much during Ranger games.

 

[Kershaw]

Lundqvist has the ability to get insanely hot. Nash has the ability to take over games. Callahan and Stepan should be able to play smart, productive 2 way hockey. Staal, Girardi and McDonagh can be defensive stalwarts and log a lot of ice time. Richards is a question mark. Clowe has been great in the playoffs for San Jose. The question is can they all put it together?

I have no clue and sadly, I don't see the coach having one either, but I will always "Bleed Blue" and pull for this team. It just sucks to see them struggle to get into the playoffs. For the majority of last season, this team had an identity. They still struggled to generate consistent offense, especially in the playoffs, but they had an identity. This season is a different story. It's been an identity crisis. The Islanders are the exciting hard-working team from NY right now. It pains me to type that.

Anything can happen in the playoffs once you're in there, but this team has given no indication that they can be a dominant team. Make no mistake, this collection of players is not last season's Kings. BUT... They have the best goaltender in the world. Anything can happen and for our sake, I hope to God that it does. LGR!

I'd say the chances of the Rangers winning the cup with this current roster is about the same as getting struck by lightning.

Technically, yes they could go on a run. So can Edmonton or Dallas or Columbus if they 'all get hot at the right time'.

 

[Ola]

Depends on which status quo we're talking about. One status quo, perhaps the most important one, has never been abandoned: filling the most important role on the team with a free agent.

Can you name the last team to win a Cup where their most important offensive player wasn't either drafted and developed by that club, or traded for at a very early point in the player's career?

I'm pretty sure the answer is the '94 Rangers. The 17 champions since didn't need to go outside the organization to find their most important gamebreaking talent.

Ok, but how many of those championship teams rebuilt?

Or just built better and better and better teams?

Pittsburg sucked.

Colorado sucked.

Tampa sucked I guess.

But the rest? I think they just built good teams.

And add Bos to the list with 94 NYR for sure, they got Chara. Dallas got Nieuwendyk. Ana won by Pronger and Nieds, trade and UFA.

I don't know, tanking wasn't an option for this team after we got Hank. And before we got Hank, we had missed the PO for 7 straight, what where we supposed to do, miss it for 5 more? Wasn't an option back then we aren't NYI.

 

[aufheben]

Yes, fantastic forwards, but the comment that Sting made was you need "World Class" players. Maybe I'm biased, but I'd take our roster right now and last season over that one. I wouldn't want either coach though (Laviolette or Tortorella).

Eric Staal and Cam Ward?

 

[beastly115]

Depends on which status quo we're talking about. One status quo, perhaps the most important one, has never been abandoned: filling the most important role on the team with a free agent.

Can you name the last team to win a Cup where their most important offensive player wasn't either drafted and developed by that club, or traded for at a very early point in the player's career?

I'm pretty sure the answer is the '94 Rangers. The 17 champions since didn't need to go outside the organization to find their most important gamebreaking talent.

Kind of going off this thought, but this is why I find swapping out Dubinsky and Anisimov for Brassard and Dorsett to be a lateral move at best. There's just something about homegrown players you can't get through a trade. Can't put my finger on it but I've found home grown players typically work out better for the Rangers.

 

[Ola]

I'd say the chances of the Rangers winning the cup with this current roster is about the same as getting struck by lightning.

Technically, yes they could go on a run. So can Edmonton or Dallas or Columbus if they 'all get hot at the right time'.

We live in a cap world, you don't get a much better roster than this. Sure, you can question if we could win the cup if it means beating Pittsburgh or Chicago or whatever, but not if we like should be top 8 of 30 lol. You can't ice 90m rosters, you have to make do with what you have...

 

[The Gloaming]

Eric Staal finished 7th in scoring in 2006.

Holy Hell, did Hank have a great rookie year that year, looking at the numbers.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Carolina Hurricanes won 52 games and a Stanley Cup in 2005-06. Is this a "World Class" roster?

• Eric Staal
• Justin Williams
• Cory Stillman
• Rod Brind'Amour
• Erik Cole
• Ray Whitney
• Matt Cullen
• Frantisek Kaberle
• Bret Hedican
• Aaron Ward
• Kevyn Adams
• Oleg Tverdovsky
• Craig Adams
• Doug Weight
• Mike Commodore
• Chad Larose
• Andrew Ladd
• Andrew Hutchinson
• Glen Wesley
• Josef Vasicek
• Niclas Wallin
• Mark Recchi
• Niklas Nordgren
• Anton Babchuk
• Radim Vrbata
• Mike Zigomanis
• David Gove
• Keith Aucoin
• Danny Richmond
• Jesse Boulerice
• Cam Ward
• Martin Gerber

Staal had 100 points that season. He could be HOFer.

Rod Brind'Amour had 70 points. He's likely a HOFer.

Mark Recchi is a HOFer.

Justin Williams had 78 points.

Cory Stillman had 78 points.

Erik Cole was basically a point-per-game player.

They had a 40 goal scorer, three 30 goal scorers, and four players over 70 points. Yeah that was a damn good lineup.

 

[The Gloaming]

Let's keep in mind that scoring WAY up from where it is now when discussing the 2006 Canes. Almost every player had a career season that year.

 

[Ail]

Let's even pretend to assume for a second that was an average line-up to win a Cup with. The humor then becomes the fact that people are resigned to comparing NYR with the exceptions, not the rules, and hoping they somehow win being an exception.

Anything can happen!

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Kind of going off this thought, but this is why I find swapping out Dubinsky and Anisimov for Brassard and Dorsett to be a lateral move at best. There's just something about homegrown players you can't get through a trade. Can't put my finger on it but I've found home grown players typically work out better for the Rangers.

Homegrown players tend to work out better for every team.

So many people just look at stats. There's so much more to sports than stats. When you grow and develop both as a player and a person with a team, you simply have more to give to that team and community. It's easier to give that second, third, forth effort.

That's why deadline trades and mercenary deals rarely work. Playing for money or a contract is one thing, but there's nothing more powerful than playing with heart. That's why you have to really be careful when dealing guys you've drafted and groomed. Having a homegrown core is invaluable for a team.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I think we're past the point of Torts having a control of the team. Team played like ****, he'd rip them a new one and they at least played decent hockey. Long gone since he approached a player who has been playing like **** or his boneheaded play allowed the other team to score a goal, and Torts gave him a sarcastic pat on the back while berating the player.

You have to be a serious Torts homer to the nth degree to not notice that these players - for the most part - look lost and Torts himself has exuded a befuddled and empty look for a lot of games. There is only one other coach that I have seen the same thing Torts is currently doing and that's Laviolette.

Laviolette looks like he's about to burst into tears with that strange scowl he does.

Too bad teams couldn't trade coaches, as Torts would do wonders in Philly, and I do believe Laviolette could do wonders for the Rangers.