Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part V

[Der Jaeger]

They traded the pick to give themselves the best shot at a talented player. He's meeting with 4 teams a day. They were the only team he met with within a month of talking to them. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out...but to say you can't see why they'd do it is silly.

They got to be the first ones, they got to show him they respect his wishes by not bothering him the whole time. Any other team he has to guess how they'll treat him once he signs. Buffalo showed him.

Worth a pick that has a slim chance of being as good a prospect as Vesey worked out to be? Especially when you had THREE other picks that round?

Of course.

You know what a 3rd round pick is worth? However many games MIKE WEBER played for the Caps after the deadline. That's what we are talking about.

This^

Buffalo made a huge transition in atmosphere for players when Terry Pegula bought the team. While the city has always been rapid about Sabres hockey and love the player, the last two owners of the team have not been a great selling point.

- John Rigas was convicted of a felony and put in jail for multiple fraud issues. He did this while not providing the GM the money assets to go after the scoring the Sabres needed to put them over the top after the 1999 season.

- The Sabres then went into league ownership, and the team could only make selloff type trades. Fortunately, those trades brought in Briere, Drury, Hecht, Grier, and Dumont.

- Tom Golisano bought the team, but they were an internal cap team. They made small UFA signings (Lydman, Numminen). And due to the internal cap, they lost Briere and Drury.

Pegula takes over and completely overhauls player alumni relations, player relations, and facilities. Go check out HarborCenter and see how the facilities compare with any team in the league. (Hint: they're equal or better, which is why the draft combine, IIHF, and other hockey events are scheduled there).

Don't believe me? Watch Kyle Okposo's post-signing interview. Arguably the #1 UFA chose to sign with Buffalo.

So how do you change perception? You get people to come in, see the facilities, listen to Pegula and Company, and make informed decisions.

In 10 years, this won't be a problem. Now, you've got to prime the pump. If that takes a 3rd round pick (worth about 25 games of Mike Weber, as noted), then that's a perfectly acceptable price. Even if Vesey doesn't sign, word about the Sabres gets out.

 

[NjDevsRR]

You know that he couldn't legally(by CBA law) sign a contract with any team other than NAS, then BUF until Tuesday? He'll likely be signed by tomorrow or Friday, so I'd say taking 3-4 days isn't dragging anything out. And for you to call him self centered is totally off base. You don't know the kid so why make baseless accusations against his character?

Its an honor to be drafted by an NHL team. I don't like to see players not commit to the team that drafted them, it was a massive slap to the face to the Predators and the decision was self centered. So who are you to say that it wasn't?

Also this entire saga could have been a lot quiter if he and his agent wanted it to be.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

This^

Buffalo made a huge transition in atmosphere for players when Terry Pegula bought the team. While the city has always been rapid about Sabres hockey and love the player, the last two owners of the team have not been a great selling point.

- John Rigas was convicted of a felony and put in jail for multiple fraud issues. He did this while not providing the GM the money assets to go after the scoring the Sabres needed to put them over the top after the 1999 season.

- The Sabres then went into league ownership, and the team could only make selloff type trades. Fortunately, those trades brought in Briere, Drury, Hecht, Grier, and Dumont.

- Tom Golisano bought the team, but they were an internal cap team. They made small UFA signings (Lydman, Numminen). And due to the internal cap, they lost Briere and Drury.

Pegula takes over and completely overhauls player alumni relations, player relations, and facilities. Go check out HarborCenter and see how the facilities compare with any team in the league. (Hint: they're equal or better, which is why the draft combine, IIHF, and other hockey events are scheduled there).

Don't believe me? Watch Kyle Okposo's post-signing interview. Arguably the #1 UFA chose to sign with Buffalo.

So how do you change perception? You get people to come in, see the facilities, listen to Pegula and Company, and make informed decisions.

In 10 years, this won't be a problem. Now, you've got to prime the pump. If that takes a 3rd round pick (worth about 25 games of Mike Weber, as noted), then that's a perfectly acceptable price. Even if Vesey doesn't sign, word about the Sabres gets out.

I would LOVE if Vesey signed there. Im not a Sabres fan but I really like what they are doing there. Sabres have made their huge push and have spoken with him a ton since acquiring his rights, but now its his time to see what other teams have to say. Hopefully Sabres impressed him enough that he goes back to them after his tour of meetings

 

[hockeydoug]

The reason is very apparent, to everyone but you.

The pick bought them almost an two months window of exclusive recruiting. That's not nothing.

Every other team has to make their pitch in a few hours this week. The Sabres have had a couple months to make their recruiting pitch. Their hope was that it gives them an advantage over other teams.

And even if Vesey decides to sign elsewhere, that doesn't mean the pick was a wasted. It still got Murray what he wanted - an exclusive opportunity to make his case.

The recruiting pitch started in the spring of 15' when the whole league knew he was going to be a FA. The time to throw the third at him was a year before TMTM did it if he truly thought he would have had an advantage. It's easier to argue that Murray was throwing a 3rd at him to play catchup to teams like Toronto rather than that he was going to gain an advantage that wouldn't have been negated or offset after the 15th.

A 3rd isn't all that valuable, no doubt about that. Maybe it tells the players management is serious about winning, maybe it sells a few more tickets or sponsorships by promoting the franchise. From a hockeyops perspective, it was poor asset management if the goal was to actually sign him.

 

[devils55]

Devils gonna make a strong push for the Cup this year. After the sign Vesey, they trade forward assets and picks to St-Louis for Shattenkirk. top 2-3 team after that

 

[Burt Reynolds]

LOL, they live in Toronto.....

No, they don't. They live in North Reading mass. His father is a Leafs scout based in Mass as he does not travel well with his illness. See below..

Isn't his father ill? (cancer?)

That is believed to be the case yes.

So by your logic then Toronto should have a hell of a knockout pitch for Vesey on their winning tradition right now?

Recency is a factor that absolutely matters in pitching free agents on winning tradition (not the only factor, but a factor none the less)

Free agents arent going to care about all the cups Toronto won 50+ years ago. They need to sell him on how they are positioned as a team now and moving forward.

Coming off a back to back postseason miss isnt going to help the winning tradition pitch

I didn't even say they were going to pitch him on winning tradition, YOU DID. All I was trying to do was get you to see that you're incorrect. That's it. Christ. If they're smart, their pitch will be centered on the dream he has had since he was a wee little baby.

 

[JT Kreider]

Its an honor to be drafted by an NHL team. I don't like to see players not commit to the team that drafted them, it was a massive slap to the face to the Predators and the decision was self centered. So who are you to say that it wasn't?

Also this entire saga could have been a lot quiter if he and his agent wanted it to be.

How is it any different than a player leaving in free agency years after drafted by that team?

 

[OConnellsProtege]

Devils gonna make a strong push for the Cup this year. After the sign Vesey, they trade forward assets and picks to St-Louis for Shattenkirk. top 2-3 team after that

Eklund is that you?

 

[JT Kreider]

Devils gonna make a strong push for the Cup this year. After the sign Vesey, they trade forward assets and picks to St-Louis for Shattenkirk. top 2-3 team after that

You come across as a 15 year old who discovered HFBoards in the bored summer months.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

No, they don't. They live in North Reading mass. His father is a Leafs scout based in Mass as he does not travel well with his illness. See below..



That is believed to be the case yes.




I didn't even say they were going to pitch him on winning tradition, YOU DID. All I was trying to do was get you to see that you're incorrect. That's it. Christ. If they're smart, their pitch will be centered on the dream he has had since he was a wee little baby.

Not exactly. I pointed out that they cant use the winning tradition pitch now because they missed the playoffs in consecutive years. Then you went on some rant about 6 cups and 2nd most american cups and they could absolutely pitch winning tradition

Given the recency, they cannot.

Period. End of story. Back up the truck. Time to go home

 

[devils55]

Its an honor to be drafted by an NHL team. I don't like to see players not commit to the team that drafted them, it was a massive slap to the face to the Predators and the decision was self centered. So who are you to say that it wasn't?

Also this entire saga could have been a lot quiter if he and his agent wanted it to be.

Wrong on so many levels...

He wanted to Graduate from Harvard. Why play for the Preds when you can sign with any team after August 15th. Could not have gone any quicker unless he signed with BUF or NSH

 

[hockeydoug]

While I agree with those that say Boston has had the advantage throughout, I disagree with the opinions that Julien will have huge influence on Vesey's decision to stay in Boston or go elsewhere. He's been there a long time and has come off back to back disappointing seasons. I find it hard to believe that someone in his camp hasn't emphasized that there's a really good chance Julien is or could be on the hot seat really soon.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Devils gonna make a strong push for the Cup this year. After the sign Vesey, they trade forward assets and picks to St-Louis for Shattenkirk. top 2-3 team after that

Surely you don't actually believe that

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Its an honor to be drafted by an NHL team. I don't like to see players not commit to the team that drafted them, it was a massive slap to the face to the Predators and the decision was self centered. So who are you to say that it wasn't?

Also this entire saga could have been a lot quiter if he and his agent wanted it to be.

It wasn't a slap at all. It's a collectively bargained right that he has. You shouldn't be limited on your opportunities to work. He did his time in the NCAA(which was an enormous gamble) and he earned his UFA rights. And how in the world could it have been quieter if his agent and he wanted it to? He's done I think 1 interview. 1! The media is blowing this up. Jeeeeeesus freaking Christ.

 

[Der Jaeger]

1. There's a universal opinion among players that the Rangers treat you better than anyone else.

2. You get to be in Manhattan. Nothing else compares.

1. Which is why Buffalo traded for his rights. You have to pony up to show players the difference.

2. Matter of opinion. Lived in a bunch of places, including huge metro areas both in the United States and abroad. I've got no interest in moving to Manhattan or any other big urban area. It's not a unique opinion and some NHL players probably share it.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The recruiting pitch started in the spring of 15' when the whole league knew he was going to be a FA. The time to throw the third at him was a year before TMTM did it if he truly thought he would have had an advantage. It's easier to argue that Murray was throwing a 3rd at him to play catchup to teams like Toronto rather than that he was going to gain an advantage that wouldn't have been negated or offset after the 15th.

A 3rd isn't all that valuable, no doubt about that. Maybe it tells the players management is serious about winning, maybe it sells a few more tickets or sponsorships by promoting the franchise. From a hockeyops perspective, it was poor asset management if the goal was to actually sign him.

I doubt that a third round pick would have done it a year and a half ago. These kind of trades happen near the end when a team has made its best shot and failed and UFA is a month or so away.

And no one but the team that drafted him can pitch anything, be it last week or a year and a half ago, until they either acquire the rights or he becomes a UFA. That is tampering with large penalties as we have seen in the past.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

 

[JT Kreider]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

But by that logic every UFA who has left their drafted team for another is guilty of the same slap to the face.

Or Hamonic requesting the Islanders to trade him close to Winnipeg so he could be with an ill loved one.

 

[devils55]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

Everyone is going to make decisions that are based on whats best for you as a person, thats not self-centered.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Not exactly. I pointed out that they cant use the winning tradition pitch now because they missed the playoffs in consecutive years. Then you went on some rant about 6 cups and 2nd most american cups and they could absolutely pitch winning tradition

Given the recency, they cannot.

Period. End of story. Back up the truck. Time to go home

From dictionary.com....

Simple Definition of tradition
: a way of thinking, behaving, or doing something that has been used by the people in a particular group, family, society, etc., for a long time

See how it says long time? Meaning that it takes into account EVERYTHING that has happened along the way. I went to Burger King twice in a month, that doesn't make it tradition.

And if you go back and look at your first post with all your attempted humor, the first line says "ready to join this winning tradition". Implying that's how Sweeney and Co would pitch it.

 

[Beerz]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

Of course it was a self centered decision ... it's his life. We all make self centered decisions everyday

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

If you were offered double your salary to work in another city that was perfectly acceptable to you, or your wife told you that she would leave you if you did not move and take a job close to her family, and you did so, are you being disloyal and slapping your employer in the face?

 

[Kitchener Boy]

Not exactly. I pointed out that they cant use the winning tradition pitch now because they missed the playoffs in consecutive years. Then you went on some rant about 6 cups and 2nd most american cups and they could absolutely pitch winning tradition

Given the recency, they cannot.

Period. End of story. Back up the truck. Time to go home

False

The tradition is fine and they missed the playoffs by 1 point.
Give it up

 

[failure]

Like I said, not commiting to the team that drafted you is indeed a slap to the face. It was a decision to benefit one person only and that was Vesey while it hurt Nashville. You are going to tell me that isn't a self centered decision? OK...

I know right? God forbid he have any say in his own career.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

From dictionary.com....

Simple Definition of tradition
: a way of thinking, behaving, or doing something that has been used by the people in a particular group, family, society, etc., for a long time

See how it says long time? Meaning that it takes into account EVERYTHING that has happened along the way. I went to Burger King twice in a month, that doesn't make it tradition.

And if you go back and look at your first post with all your attempted humor, the first line says "ready to join this winning tradition". Implying that's how Sweeney and Co would pitch it.

Sarcasm was lost on you there then with the Sweeney mocked pitch