Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part V

[Jaded-Fan]

No where did I comment on the value of a third round pick.
I just said that Buffalo flushed it down the toilet.
I don't care if they had all 30 3rd round picks, just saying they wasted it.
And yes teams give away picks all the time on gambles like deadline rental players , BUT at least they get the services of said player for a time being.
I dunno , maybe it's just me but when a player or his agent comes out and says that they will NOT sign until he hits UFA , and a team goes out and uses a pick anyways to acquire his rights before he is a UFA .... Call me crazy but that is wasting a pick.


Maybe the word "waste" gets fans butt hurt , let's say Buffalo "spent" a draft pick for no reason apparent reason.
Not sure what there is to argue here .
Player -" I will not sign until I'm a UFA"
Team - " here is a draft pick to acquire players rights before he is a UFA"

Under your with the benefit of hindsight and knowing that the gamble did not work position, then seven out of ten teams who keep and use the third round pick at the draft 'waste' their pick as well.

It is well documented that teams have historically gone the route of trading a pick, usually a third, to talk to a player for a time before he hits UFA status. It has worked at times. Obviously they thought that they had a shot in this case, and I do not blame them for taking it even though it did not work out.

I have no horse in this race, I do not care about them one way or another. I am talking in general, I see why they did it and do not think that it was a bad move, unless you have the benefit of hindsight.

 

[MayDay]

Maybe the word "waste" gets fans butt hurt , let's say Buffalo "spent" a draft pick for no reason apparent reason.

The reason is very apparent, to everyone but you.

The pick bought them almost an two months window of exclusive recruiting. That's not nothing.

Every other team has to make their pitch in a few hours this week. The Sabres have had a couple months to make their recruiting pitch. Their hope was that it gives them an advantage over other teams.

And even if Vesey decides to sign elsewhere, that doesn't mean the pick was a wasted. It still got Murray what he wanted - an exclusive opportunity to make his case.

 

[MAHJ71]

Hopefully they brought cookies?

Not just cookies but, *warm* cookies

 

[Eggtimer]

The reason is very apparent, to everyone but you.

The pick bought them almost an two months window of exclusive recruiting. That's not nothing.

Every other team has to make their pitch in a few hours this week. The Sabres have had a couple months to make their recruiting pitch. Their hope was that it gives them an advantage over other teams.

And even if Vesey decides to sign elsewhere, that doesn't mean the pick was a wasted. It still got Murray what he wanted - an exclusive opportunity to make his case.

Hmm , well said . I agree with what you say.
Just seemed a little odd to trade a pick for someone when they said essentially there's no point. But I can see the value of showing Vesey that your willing to give up an asset anyways and have more time to talk to him and Buffalo must have had somewhat of a idea that they were on his short list?

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Huge difference . Buffalo got absolutely nothing for the 3rd besides the opportunity to negotiate a few weeks earlier for a player that flat out said he would not sign until UFA = to me peeing away a pick.
Argument makes no sense logically what so ever about other teams 3rd round picks not panning out makes them worthless .

I am no mathmatic wizard , but a 0% chance of signing or getting a player is not very good odds lol. He very well may end up still signing in Buffalo , but a pick was still wasted as Vesey was going to listen to all interested parties regardless.

well, that's not true. We already know he refused a meeting with Detroit and we don't know what other teams he has turned down. Seems like he has a pretty short list of teams he's willing to talk to though. Buffalo traded 1 of their 4 3rd round picks to make sure they were a team on that short list, and to get to exclusively negotiate with him for over a month. They got to bring him to the draft in Buffalo and show him around their facilities (something no other team got to do, except the rumor that Boston will show him their facilities).

Our shot at signing Vesey is probably equal to or greater than the odds of the 3rd round pick we traded panning out. We took a shot at signing a guy that could step right into our lineup instead of using that 4th 3rd round pick and hoping that pick turns into a player of Vesey's caliber 3-4 years down the line.

Plus, if they didn't hit on a player with their other three 3rd round picks, what are the chances they hit on the 4th? I don't know, but it seems like it'd be less than the odds of signing Vesey...

Also, who knows, maybe this helps convince Vesey to sign in Buffalo in 4 years when he hits UFA (if he doesn't sign here now).

 

[Burt Reynolds]

lol, i mean, Boston is an original 6 team so yea they should be ahead of most, if not all expansion teams

and the only original 6 team they have beat in cups is NYR

And the same amount as CHI. They have just as strong a "winnings tradition" as any other club you could reference. Either way, you literally ignored the rest of my post. Which coincidentally, shot yours down.

you guys know nothing

Why don't you give us some knowledge then?

 

[Kadri43*]

you guys know nothing

And you know what exactly?

 

[devils55]

And you know what exactly?

Vesey will sign in NJD

 

[TheFinalWord]

This completely false.

They traded him when he hit RFA after offering him pretty much the exact deal he signed with Calgary. He didn't want to re-sign in Boston so they traded him.

Seriously learn the situation before you spout nonsense.

But wouldn't this be an even bigger red flag than him leaving for money? I think it would look better if a player wanted to be with Boston, but wanted more money than he earned, rather than someone who will turn down the money he wants to leave.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

It was just as big 2 years ago.

weird.. I just don't remember being this big. Seems like Hayes hype was lower than this. Schultz scenario was pretty big and so was Reilly... I thought Hayes was less but now this Vesey hype seems huge. Maybe im wrong though(by no means am I saying one is better than the other, but I think the hype is just more due to social media and how its happening more and more)... either way, this is going to happen more and more as the years go by. These NCAA guys will see how they could potentially follow this rule and will take advantage. IMO another player that I really wouldn't doubt does this, is another Preds pick Dante Fabbro. His family is extremely high on finishing his degree so we will see

 

[Ace]

No where did I comment on the value of a third round pick.
I just said that Buffalo flushed it down the toilet.
I don't care if they had all 30 3rd round picks, just saying they wasted it.
And yes teams give away picks all the time on gambles like deadline rental players , BUT at least they get the services of said player for a time being.
I dunno , maybe it's just me but when a player or his agent comes out and says that they will NOT sign until he hits UFA , and a team goes out and uses a pick anyways to acquire his rights before he is a UFA .... Call me crazy but that is wasting a pick.


Maybe the word "waste" gets fans butt hurt , let's say Buffalo "spent" a draft pick for no reason apparent reason.
Not sure what there is to argue here .
Player -" I will not sign until I'm a UFA"
Team - " here is a draft pick to acquire players rights before he is a UFA

They traded the pick to give themselves the best shot at a talented player. He's meeting with 4 teams a day. They were the only team he met with within a month of talking to them. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out...but to say you can't see why they'd do it is silly.

They got to be the first ones, they got to show him they respect his wishes by not bothering him the whole time. Any other team he has to guess how they'll treat him once he signs. Buffalo showed him.

Worth a pick that has a slim chance of being as good a prospect as Vesey worked out to be? Especially when you had THREE other picks that round?

Of course.

You know what a 3rd round pick is worth? However many games MIKE WEBER played for the Caps after the deadline. That's what we are talking about.

 

[Tim Vezina Thomas]

Vesey will sign in NJD

Well you've made up everything else you've said, so have to imagine you have no real basis for this statement.

 

[TheFinalWord]

For the umpteenth million time, Buffalo had 4 third round picks. All this angst over using one of them to pitch to Vesey early is mind-boggling to me.

Does the value of a pick decrease if you have more than one? No. The value is the value and there is a reason Buffalo acquired them in trades.

That being said, I think it was a good gamble for Buffalo to make and wasn't an overpayment for the opportunity to exclusively negotiate. It's all good to say everyone knew he was going to free agency, but that could have been what he was telling Nashville because he didn't want to be there (for whatever reason). Buffalo took a shot and lost, but I think it was a good move.

I still think he'll be signing in Boston and it will only be because he grew up there and that was his favourite team. And good for him and them if it happens. It's his payoff for waiting.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Honestly thank god for this sef centered player lol its making the brutal August stretch of the offseason go by quicker.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

And the same amount as CHI. They have just as strong a "winnings tradition" as any other club you could reference. Either way, you literally ignored the rest of my post. Which coincidentally, shot yours down.





Why don't you give us some knowledge then?

Except Chicago is living in a winning tradition at the moment and Boston isnt.

A lot easier for Chicago to point out their recent success and cup run to sway someone on a winning tradition than it is for Boston to point out their total cups since the beginning of time

 

[MayDay]

That being said, I think it was a good gamble for Buffalo to make and wasn't an overpayment for the opportunity to exclusively negotiate. It's all good to say everyone knew he was going to free agency, but that could have been what he was telling Nashville because he didn't want to be there (for whatever reason). Buffalo took a shot and lost, but I think it was a good move.

They haven't lost anything yet.

Vessel could still sign with Buffalo. And their ability to talk with him several times over the last several weeks could make the difference in that happening.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Honestly thank god for this sef centered player lol its making the brutal August stretch of the offseason go by quicker.

You know that he couldn't legally(by CBA law) sign a contract with any team other than NAS, then BUF until Tuesday? He'll likely be signed by tomorrow or Friday, so I'd say taking 3-4 days isn't dragging anything out. And for you to call him self centered is totally off base. You don't know the kid so why make baseless accusations against his character?

Except Chicago is living in a winning tradition at the moment and Boston isnt.

A lot easier for Chicago to point out their recent success and cup run to sway someone on a winning tradition than it is for Boston to point out their total cups since the beginning of time

Im not saying Chicago doesn't have a winning tradition. I'm simply forcing you to accept that your original statement was incorrect. You said Boston doesn't have a winning tradition because they missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons. That's just factually innacurate.

 

[HockeyMomx2]

But wouldn't this be an even bigger red flag than him leaving for money? I think it would look better if a player wanted to be with Boston, but wanted more money than he earned, rather than someone who will turn down the money he wants to leave.

Mommy and Daddy wanted him closer to home and with his brother, had nothing to do with anything but that.

 

[Burt Reynolds]

Get some jobs boys, analysts for the NHL isn`t in the books for you guys.

D.Hamilton traded because of cap space

But that's just 100% wrong. Why even try to make claims you know nothing about. Gotta be the Internet message board winner of the day I guess...

 

[Beerz]

Does the value of a pick decrease if you have more than one? No. The value is the value and there is a reason Buffalo acquired them in trades.

That being said, I think it was a good gamble for Buffalo to make and wasn't an overpayment for the opportunity to exclusively negotiate. It's all good to say everyone knew he was going to free agency, but that could have been what he was telling Nashville because he didn't want to be there (for whatever reason). Buffalo took a shot and lost, but I think it was a good move.

I still think he'll be signing in Boston and it will only be because he grew up there and that was his favourite team. And good for him and them if it happens. It's his payoff for waiting.

The value certainly changes for the team holding on to 4 3rd rounders.

 

[devils55]

Mommy and Daddy wanted him closer to home and with his brother, had nothing to do with anything but that.

LOL, they live in Toronto.....

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Isn't his father ill? (cancer?)

 

[Beacon]

Why would Vesey even go to an organization like the Rangers? Surely he can do much better

1. There's a universal opinion among players that the Rangers treat you better than anyone else.

2. You get to be in Manhattan. Nothing else compares.

3. Always spend the max of the cap, and manipulate it further to spend more (such as by paying players more up front so if they trade them to a team with an internal cap that is lower than the league cap, they can gain additional cap space: Player A makes $3 next year with a $6 cap hit; Player B makes $4 next year with a $4 cap hit. The Rangers trade player A for player B, gaining $2 in cap space.)

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

You know that he couldn't legally(by CBA law) sign a contract with any team other than NAS, then BUF until Tuesday? He'll likely be signed by tomorrow or Friday, so I'd say taking 3-4 days isn't dragging anything out. And for you to call him self centered is totally off base. You don't know the kid so why make baseless accusations against his character?





Im not saying Chicago doesn't have a winning tradition. I'm simply forcing you to accept that your original statement was incorrect. You said Boston doesn't have a winning tradition because they missed the playoffs the last 2 seasons. That's just factually innacurate.

So by your logic then Toronto should have a hell of a knockout pitch for Vesey on their winning tradition right now?

Recency is a factor that absolutely matters in pitching free agents on winning tradition (not the only factor, but a factor none the less)

Free agents arent going to care about all the cups Toronto won 50+ years ago. They need to sell him on how they are positioned as a team now and moving forward.

Coming off a back to back postseason miss isnt going to help the winning tradition pitch

 

[JT Kreider]

Honestly thank god for this sef centered player lol its making the brutal August stretch of the offseason go by quicker.

I have a feeling all of us on this board are making it a bigger deal than he is.