Rumor: All Encompassing Jimmy Vesey Thread. All Rumors/News goes here. Part V

[ghdi]

Not to mention the things we know about the Rangers even aside from on ice product:

Treat their players amazing

Yea, they certainly treated "Captain Cally" well. Many of the teams he's got on his list treat their players well.

Greatest city in the world

Subjective.

MSG

Overrated as a building. But it does have its drawing power legacy wise to some.

Original 6

Big deal. So are Boston, Chicago and Toronto. The Original 6 hasn't been a thing in 50 years. There is no player in the league who was alive when the Original 6 was a thing and there hasn't been in decades. A 23 year old is unlikely to give a crap about "Original 6".

One of the largest fan bases in the league

Fair point. Literally the only one you've offered. Almost every game is like a home game unless its against one of the other teams with a huge footprint.

Most valuable franchise in the league

The salary cap makes this completely irrelevant. Pre-salary cap, its huge.

 

[dingbathero]

Vessey issue is tired.

What a chump.

 

[Off Sides]

Brassard called up Vesey and said "Buy a brand new condo in NYC, what's the worst that could happen!?"

You sign a 25M dollar contract at the age of 26 and two seasons later you get traded to your home town team?

 

[Gardner McKay]

Yea, they certainly treated "Captain Cally" well. Many of the teams he's got on his list treat their players well.



Subjective.



Overrated as a building. But it does have its drawing power legacy wise to some.



Big deal. So are Boston, Chicago and Toronto. The Original 6 hasn't been a thing in 50 years. There is no player in the league who was alive when the Original 6 was a thing and there hasn't been in decades. A 23 year old is unlikely to give a crap about "Original 6".



Fair point. Literally the only one you've offered. Almost every game is like a home game unless its against one of the other teams with a huge footprint.



The salary cap makes this completely irrelevant. Pre-salary cap, its huge.

In your opinion. I think almost all of them are good points.

 

[BMOK33]

So what is Vesey's projected ceiling by scouts? Based on something I saw from a scout taking into consideration where he played and his college numbers they think 50-60 point player So why is this guy getting so much attention?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Yea, they certainly treated "Captain Cally" well. Many of the teams he's got on his list treat their players well.



Subjective.



Overrated as a building. But it does have its drawing power legacy wise to some.



Big deal. So are Boston, Chicago and Toronto. The Original 6 hasn't been a thing in 50 years. There is no player in the league who was alive when the Original 6 was a thing and there hasn't been in decades. A 23 year old is unlikely to give a crap about "Original 6".



Fair point. Literally the only one you've offered. Almost every game is like a home game unless its against one of the other teams with a huge footprint.



The salary cap makes this completely irrelevant. Pre-salary cap, its huge.

You can make excuses, but it all adds up. I'm not saying we'll definitely get Vesey, but the Rangers are one of the best franchises in the sport, when you combine all those factors. To doubt that is being in denial.

 

[Shady Machine]

Are we not one of the best teams in the NHL every single season?

I'm not sure. You tell me. The last I looked, the Rangers haven't won a Stanley Cup in a long time. They made it to a Cup finals in in 2014 and conference finals in 2015. Outside of that, they haven't made it past the 2nd round since the 05 lockout. Does that qualify as 'perennial winner'?

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Are we not one of the best teams in the NHL every single season?

I would say perennial winner is not the most accurate way to put it

Competitive team every year? Yes

Perennial winner is probably only reserved for LAK, Chicago, Pittsburgh at this point

Annual strong competitive teams is the second tier consisting of St.Louis, San Jose, Detroit, Tampa Bay, Islanders, NYR, Capitals, Ducks, etc

 

[Shady Machine]

Vessey issue is tired.

What a chump.

Why is he a chump? Is it his fault that the media has been covering this nonstop since he decided not to sign in Nashville?

 

[Tawnos]

So what is Vesey's projected ceiling by scouts? Based on something I saw from a scout taking into consideration where he played and his college numbers they think 50-60 point player So why is this guy getting so much attention?

50-60 points makes him a potential first liner. You answered your own question.

 

[ghdi]

Are we not one of the best teams in the NHL every single season?

And you have so much to show for it. A team on the downturn in cap hell with a paltry cupboard and no Cups in 22 seasons.

Every single season encompasses a lot of seasons. If you said "Are we not one of the best teams...over the last 10 years" yes.

 

[Savant]

Yeah, the Rangers don't have the young talent that some other teams have, but we are a perennial winner, and even in our bad seasons like last season, we had 100 points and lost to the eventual champions in the playoffs.

I think the Rangers young talent is a little underrated actually. Aside from Buchnevich they probably don't have any top line players, but the Rangers have historically been able to sign or trade for those kind of players. What they have done is amassed a lot of 2nd and 3rd line types who are young or entering their prime.

Stepan, Kreider, Zibanejad, Hayes, Miller, Fast, Lindberg and Buchnevich are all 26 or younger. You can put Jooris in there if you want too. Throw Vesey in there and that is three lines of young forward talent, all of whom except Buchnevich are proven at the NHL level.

Girardi will be given one more chance this season and will undoubtedly be bought out or given the retire for the good of the franchise and move upstairs talk from Chris Drury. If you can replace Girardi with a guy like Shattenkirk next summer, the defense doesn't look so bad anymore. Staal will have a longer leash than Girardi but that is the trajectory he is on as well.

Nash will be very movable next summer as an expiring contract as well, especially if he does better than he did last season.

And then there is the first ballot hall of famer in net. If he falls off, the Rangers have Shestyorkin, their version of Vasilevsky, in the wings and he is pretty close to ready.

I think the Rangers could take a year to retool but reports of their demise is pretty premature in my opinion.

 

[Fonzerelli]

So what is Vesey's projected ceiling by scouts? Based on something I saw from a scout taking into consideration where he played and his college numbers they think 50-60 point player So why is this guy getting so much attention?

Some guys think he has a high ceiling. Pronman thinks he could be an average top 6 forward in time and possibly is a plug-and-play top 9 guy this season. Then there are the negative reviews ... this today from NHL sources posted on Eklund's column

"He wouldn't get 20 goals in the AHL...he was an older guy playing in the one of the weaker college leagues...," the source continued, "There are many better and younger players out there already. Look at Winnipeg and Chicago alone...On Winnipeg you have: Roslovic, Connor, Lemieux DeLeo and Petan....And that's not including Ehlers, Laine and Dano...All better than Vesey That's 8 forwards, all younger and better...All of those guys could get 53 points or more as 22-23 yr old in the ECAC. And Joel Armia is the same age....and on Chicago...there are Hinostroza, Schmaltz, Motte and Hartman. All better with none of the hype."

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklu...Worth-It--Tons-of-Disagreement--Buzz1/1/78703

 

[JayMan82]

I'm not sure. You tell me. The last I looked, the Rangers haven't won a Stanley Cup in a long time. They made it to a Cup finals in in 2014 and conference finals in 2015. Outside of that, they haven't made it past the 2nd round since the 05 lockout. Does that qualify as 'perennial winner'?

Conference finals in 2012 as well... So within 11 years they've been to conference finals/finals almost 30% of the time. Missed the playoffs once in that period of time and no Top 5 picks.

 

[Beacon]

Vesey has better stats in college than Chris Kreider and he's a top 6 forward on NY.

Try again

Kreider left college at 21, Vesey at 23. Big difference. Compare them at the same age, and Kreider has better stats.

 

[Shady Machine]

Conference finals in 2012 as well... So within 11 years they've been to conference finals/finals almost 30% of the time. Missed the playoffs once in that period of time and no Top 5 picks.

Ah sorry. I forgot about 2012. I'm not trying to say the Rangers haven't been a good team. I just objected to the term 'perennial winner'. Consistently one of the better teams over the last 10 years for sure and likely an attractive option for Vesey.

 

[ghdi]

You can make excuses, but it all adds up. I'm not saying we'll definitely get Vesey, but the Rangers are one of the best franchises in the sport, when you combine all those factors. To doubt that is being in denial.

Im just arguing his "points". I don't disagree. The Rangers have an allure to them that many players want to be a part of. That said, the points he gave are largely opinion and have counters to. We don't know if Vesey shares them.

Its not denial. Its looking at what the Rangers provide for what it is. There are many teams that provide similar things unless MSG and NYC are high on your priority lists.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Yeah, the Rangers don't have the young talent that some other teams have, but we are a perennial winner, and even in our bad seasons like last season, we had 100 points and lost to the eventual champions in the playoffs.

I actually think that might be one of the reasons the NYR could land Vesey.

I don't see him going to a team loaded with good prospects in the system. I think maybe he picks a place that doesn't have a ton of good prospects nipping at his heels. Its probably more likely that he is given more time/chances to stay in the lineup if a team doesn't have high pedigree prospects to call up in his place.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Kreider left college at 21, Vesey at 23. Big difference. Compare them at the same age, and Kreider has better stats.

And Hockey East is the stronger conference over ECAC

 

[Gardner McKay]

I'm not sure. You tell me. The last I looked, the Rangers haven't won a Stanley Cup in a long time. They made it to a Cup finals in in 2014 and conference finals in 2015. Outside of that, they haven't made it past the 2nd round since the 05 lockout. Does that qualify as 'perennial winner'?

Ehem. ECF in 2012, SCF in 2014, ECF in 2015 and are only behind Detroit in terms of most times making the playoffs since the 2005 lock out.

 

[McSuper]

Begs the question of what Taylor Hall could possibly tell anyone about playing for New Jersey.

He could tell him he loved Edmonton and didn't like being traded . Edmonton is the place to be .


As I said before I never seen the kid play but his stats suggests he is way overhyped . Wish him all the luck in the world but I see him as being a bottom 6 player and they are available even year for cheap .

 

[Tawnos]

Im just arguing his "points". I don't disagree. The Rangers have an allure to them that many players want to be a part of. That said, the points he gave are largely opinion and have counters to. We don't know if Vesey shares them.

Its not denial. Its looking at what the Rangers provide for what it is. There are many teams that provide similar things unless MSG and NYC are high on your priority lists.

I'm not sure of everything that goes into this, but it's pretty well known around the league that the Rangers are an organization who really, really, really treats its players well. Whether that's medical care, ensuring the players comfort, etc... They've definitely built a reputation.

 

[ghdi]

Ehem. ECF in 2012, SCF in 2014, ECF in 2015 and are only behind Detroit in terms of most times making the playoffs since the 2005 lock out.

Who counts ECFs? And losses in Cup Finals? They mean nothing.

They don't matter in 2016. Those Ranger teams are not the same Rangers today.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Different schools, different programs, different positions, different styles of play, and picked 50 or so spots apart. But somehow they're comparables?

They're being compared because another poster said Vesey wasn't a 1st round calibre prospect, Rip. There was one college-bound forward selected in Vesey's draft year, which makes for the most direct point of comparison. If you want to offer a better one, or argue how Vesey's development come up short from what one would expect from a 1st rounder, I'm all ears.

I'm not sure why you think they'd have to play at the same school, at the same forward position, or have the same style to be compared in this discussion, and Vesey's actual draft position has no bearing on it whatsoever.

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers easily have the cap space now and projectable cap space two years down the road when he'll need to sign again. The Rangers have been very nice to Vesey's buddy Kevin Hayes. IMO giving him a $2.6 mil per 2 year contract after something of a sophomore slump was pretty damn generous. The Rangers as well have a lot of connections to Boston area hockey and NYC is not that far away from Boston and the Rangers have been a very very good team the last several years.

So if you're Vesey and Detroit is too far away and you don't want to play for your hometown team and you want to play for a playoff team that is in cap position to give you a very nice second contract--the Rangers are a very very good option---fact is there might not be another team in the East that fits all those criteria right now better than the Rangers.