You guys talk like any coach is just gonna stroll right in here and, with all this "offensive talent" we have, make us a better team than where Torts had us last year, and what Torts is capable of when the whole team is ****ing healthy and not playing like idiots.
All Encompassing Coaching and Glen Cigar Thread Part V
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Yea, I mean I have faith in my man Staalsy that if he was playing, he would've made a difference and we may have won these last three games.
I'm starting to see how some of you guys are though...You're inadvertently selling out guys like Staal.
Lol wutttt? Do you know what selling out means? Because you are not applying it right.
No one here is saying staal being out hasn't hurt this team. But what about Boston? No Seidenberg and Ference, and to a lesser extent, Redden. Did Boston make excuses? No instead Julien outcoached Tortorella by a mile.
And if Boston had a fully healthy team, then what? You're working with assumptions and if's.
If anything Julien hasn't coached anything, he just has players who are stepping up...There's plenty of Julien haters, just as many as there are Torts haters honestly, Julien haters were ready to explode when they almost lost to Toronto.
They didn't lose to Toronto, though, and was it because of Claude? Don't give Claude or Torts too much credit...It was the Bs players who stepped up and didn't want to lose that series.
That's what we haven't done, regardless of what Torts has said.
ImIdaho
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The ****?
Julien lead his team to a cup two season's ago. The **** has Torts done recently besides have this team claw and fight for a playoff spot aside from last season?
Oh really. Because it looks like Boston plays a completely different system. Oh wait...they do. And wow they don't dump and chase constantly. And wow they are tighter on the points in their own end. Oh wait Julien doesnt force players to play out of their comfort zone. Jagr had been struggling but did Julien juggle his lines or throw him under the bus. Nope he let Jagr stick with it and he played a strong game tonight. Torts and his system need to go.
Torts also won a cup a couple seasons before Julien...You could say the same thing about Julien's tenure after he won the cup, just as you could say about Tort's tenure after he won the cup.
People are just far too reactionary and quick to point the finger.
I didn't hear this much hate last year when we almost made it to the cup, only to be beaten by a 4th line that wasn't the fault of the team or coaching style, it was just that we had people like Mike Rupp and other geezers skating against young talent, and we got burned.
For example, if we had the same top 3 lines last year against the Devils, but had the 4th line we do this year, I think we woul've made it to the cup...This year, without Staalsy, our defense isn't the same, and it surely hasn't been with the way Girardi has been playing, and we certainly don't have the same agressiveness and forecheck, amongst our top three lines, that made us a hard team to play against, that made us the #1 seed during the regular season, and that almost got us to the cup despite some slow skating and getting outplayed on our 4th line.
ImIdaho
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You know that saying of "if ifs and buts, were candy and nuts," right?
Torts won a cup when the ice was slightly bigger, the trapezoid wasn't part of the game, and there was a two-line pass in place, which favored defensive teams.
No, there was hate for Torts last season as well. A 1st place team having to go to 7 games against the 8th and 7th seeds? There's a reason that happened and it's not because of the players we had.
"Oh, but we had these players and only if we could have these players."
Really? Some coaches have made due with the players they had and have found success. With Torts..
Torts won the cup in 2004. Before the lockout. Before the game opened up. His system was effective then. Please god do not compare Julien's cup in 2011 to Torts in 2004. Quality perception here.
Great example of your last point is the Detroit organization. Mike Babcock is a great coach. Lidstrom retires. New blood comes in. He gets the most out of his team.
Yea but comon, man. There's something wrong with this team, if you want to blame it on Torts, fine. I don't agree. Bottom line, this team had no meat, grind, and potatoes....
For once I'll agree with Millbury here because, he's conveying what's really not that hard to see. It doesn't take some kind of rocket appliances to figure out that this team just couldn't man up like last year's team.
For whatever reason..
And I'm sorry, but if you think that a group of guys, and a hockey team that had a 5v4 PP last year during the playoffs that scored 13 goals, is just going to throw in the towel because they don't like their coach?
Forget about the coach, when you have a group of guys, with the King between the pipes, they should be more hungry in trying to win the cup, PERIOD. And the pathetic degree to which they were hungry this year, compared to last year, really should tell you that they miss Staalsy, Prust, Duby, Arty, etc...
For once I'll agree with Millbury here because, he's conveying what's really not that hard to see. It doesn't take some kind of rocket appliances to figure out that this team just couldn't man up like last year's team.
For whatever reason..
And I'm sorry, but if you think that a group of guys, and a hockey team that had a 5v4 PP last year during the playoffs that scored 13 goals, is just going to throw in the towel because they don't like their coach?
Forget about the coach, when you have a group of guys, with the King between the pipes, they should be more hungry in trying to win the cup, PERIOD. And the pathetic degree to which they were hungry this year, compared to last year, really should tell you that they miss Staalsy, Prust, Duby, Arty, etc...
ImIdaho
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You can also add Boston. They inject new blood on defense and they are playing lights out. We have players who have been for years and it seems they don't even know what the **** to do at times.
To a degree, yes, players are to blame. However, also to a degree, Torts is to blame as well. How many times do you allow players to come and go under Torts before you tell him to leave?
Keep dreaming pal. You talk about Staal like we were missing Brian Leetch or something. Face facts, the Bruins are way better than the Rangers are.
You do make some good points, and ones that I agree with. Many times, I have pointed out how much the lack of Marc Staal has hurt the team. Further on, they get a pretty good player in Clowe, and guess what, more grief.
What we are seeing, at least speaking for myself in what I believe people are feeling, is a real disappointment in what the team can muster offensively. I made the point earlier that many of us, myself most definitely included, was quite happy with last season's ultra-defensive grind them down style of winning. It made us go to bed with dreams of the Rangers maybe winning the big prize.
So, call me a flake if you wish, but it really is just too boring watching this ineffective style of play, even though I love the team and will continue to follow them every single game, like always. I grew up watching flashy but solid offensive Rangers teams, who also had top tier goaltending much of the time, like Giacomin, Villemure, Richter, Vanbiesbrouck, etc.
Tonight's game was simply awful. It was a let down from start to finish, in the pivotal game of the series, the back breaker. It's okay if they don't beat a better team, but they stunk, had no spirit really.
Torts system works quite well. Last years team during the regular season was a good example, albeit an obviously cheesy one it seems to all of you.
Then, our one weakness during the regular season, our PP, Everyone was ready to blame on Torts if we didn't make the cup...But, Richie stepped up, and so did Staal, they were like 50% of our PP scoring and assisted on the rest of the goals...Is that magic all because of Torts genius PP work? No, the boys just came together and lit the lamp.
Can we blame Richies downfall, who has succeeded under Torts before, and who wants to play under the guy, just like other dudes on the team, on Torts?
I don't think so. I think we lost a lot of our toughness, we need guys like Duby and Prust back, we need more heart and soul, Callahan can't be ther to pick up the slack...
It's sad watching how little everyone else wants to go pick pocket, apply pressure, forecheck, and just be nasty asides from Callahan.
The fight just isn't there, the boys need more killer instinct, forget about Torts. KILLER INSTINCT!!!
Then, our one weakness during the regular season, our PP, Everyone was ready to blame on Torts if we didn't make the cup...But, Richie stepped up, and so did Staal, they were like 50% of our PP scoring and assisted on the rest of the goals...Is that magic all because of Torts genius PP work? No, the boys just came together and lit the lamp.
Can we blame Richies downfall, who has succeeded under Torts before, and who wants to play under the guy, just like other dudes on the team, on Torts?
I don't think so. I think we lost a lot of our toughness, we need guys like Duby and Prust back, we need more heart and soul, Callahan can't be ther to pick up the slack...
It's sad watching how little everyone else wants to go pick pocket, apply pressure, forecheck, and just be nasty asides from Callahan.
The fight just isn't there, the boys need more killer instinct, forget about Torts. KILLER INSTINCT!!!
You grow those guys from within the organization. You don't pay two guys like that something like close to $7 mil a season (approximately, don't quibble, I'm close).
In the meantime, you cannot keep ****ing up on the big dollar bets. You cannot continuously fizzle and not have a real first line, and a real second line. I don't mean to say the Rangers do not have talent, but I feel safe in guaranteeing (or at least betting all my vCash) that, if Marian Hossa was acquired this off season (it's theoretical, yet possible), we would be wondering this time next year why his game went splat.
And yet (some) people forget who will be naming the coach--the same man who hired Tortorella (and Trottier, not to mention himself).
Why do (some) people expect things to be so completely different the next time around?
Duby is a little overpaid, but I don't think he's as overpaid as people like to think. Last year he played like **** and was completely unrefelctive of what he's capable of. He was MURDERING it when Columbus was pushing for the playoffs. That's Duby. He comes to play come playoffs, he'll fight everyone, he doesn't **** around. Yea he's lazy as **** in the regular season, playoffs? He turns into Callahands brotha.
Prust, yea he too was overpaid a bit. We thought Dorsett would come in and replace that. Hopefully he grows into that roll next year. Did he this year? Not at all. He had an easy opportunity to man up, pick fights, and destroy like Prust did, and he didnt't. Surprise, no one can replace Prust.
Are Duby and Prust worth the extra couple millions it seems everyone were bickering about? I dunno, I've always seemed to think guys like that are irreplaceable come playoff time, especially how they proved themselves the past couple years.
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