GDT: ALIENS @ WHAT

[Svechhammer]

I’m glad Kooch is coming back to earth a bit,

lol I expected nothing less

 

[Chrispy]

I’m glad Kooch is coming back to earth a bit, the expectations were getting out of hand and to be honest he’s left shooters chances to pick him apart like Forsberg did….they were gonna start hitting them eventually.

That first pp with Patches looked really good at least. I can see him being deadly with us.

I checked, we’re still leading the division.

He had a hot run. Nothing I saw last night from Kochetkov worries me about the next 4 years at $2M AAV.

Who the other goalie will be is an interesting question for the off-season. For the rest of this year, there are 3 solid to good options when healthy and all of them are capable of stealing a game.

 

[LBS I Digress]

This is a sports discussion board. Logic and common sense doesn't apply.

I was never a big fan of either of their music anyway

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

 

[Negan4Coach]

I mean I thought Patches looked pretty good out there. I'm sure he'll be value add if he doesn't get re-injured, but I'm still not seeing how he is going to be the savior some have expected him to be.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The more I process the game, the more I see it as a perfect storm where a dominant team got caught up in score-effects. According to the balance of play, Canes should have been leading by 2-3 goals during the 3rd period. Instead they were trailing, so they started throwing even more pucks at the net. Nashville wasn’t good enough to establish much possession or prevent the shots, especially the ones from weird angles and long distances, but they were content to form a bubble around Saros and try to milk that lead.

A lot of teams would have been more careful with the puck, looking for a perfect play while fans tore their hair out and yelled “shoooot”. Canes just put it all on net looking for puck luck, and Pacioretty on the 4th line meant they were getting looks at the net on nearly every shift. It was a perfect storm.

If Kochetkov makes a save or two, all of that goes away. Canes would have been the team looking to run out the clock, while Nashville looked for bounces at the net.

 

[MinJaBen]

The more I process the game, the more I see it as a perfect storm where a dominant team got caught up in score-effects. According to the balance of play, Canes should have been leading by 2-3 goals during the 3rd period. Instead they were trailing, so they started throwing even more pucks at the net. Nashville wasn’t good enough to establish much possession or prevent the shots, especially the ones from weird angles and long distances, but they were content to form a bubble around Saros and try to milk that lead.

A lot of teams would have been more careful with the puck, looking for a perfect play while fans tore their hair out and yelled “shoooot”. Canes just put it all on net looking for puck luck, and Pacioretty on the 4th line meant they were getting looks at the net on nearly every shift. It was a perfect storm.

If Kucherov makes a save or two, all of that goes away. Canes would have been the team looking to run out the clock, while Nashville looked for bounces at the net.

If we trade for Kucherov and put him in net, I'm quitting this team.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If we trade for Kucherov and put him in net, I'm quitting this team.

God damnit, that’s twice in a week that I’ve missed autocorrect changing Kochetkov to Kucherov.

For some reason this doesn’t happen when I type Koochie.

 

[The Faulker 27]

I mean I thought Patches looked pretty good out there. I'm sure he'll be value add if he doesn't get re-injured, but I'm still not seeing how he is going to be the savior some have expected him to be.

I don't expect him to be a savior, and savior for what? I mean this team is very good. Adding patches is like putting icing on more icing. If you mean savior for the PP, then yes I think he instantly improves it, but that doesn't mean we see our overall % suddenly jump into middle of the pack. It takes more than one player. He looked great last night, though. 6 SOG in his first game back from a torn ACL where he recovered faster than expected. That's a W to me. Not to mention he had some heavy hits. His shot is hard, and accurate . Might have the best shot on the team honestly.

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean I thought Patches looked pretty good out there. I'm sure he'll be value add if he doesn't get re-injured, but I'm still not seeing how he is going to be the savior some have expected him to be.

He's got an excellent shot, and a very quick release. He got better looks than I was expecting last night, but thems the breaks.

That being said, he was far more physical than I was expecting. He went looking for contact last night and was willing to throw his body around. Now, I know after the game he said he intentionally went out with a mindset of throwing his weight around, but I really hope he keeps that up. We absolutely need that kind of presence on this team, and if he can teach whoever he's on the ice with to play like that, all the better.

But......

He's only one player, and the rest of the team has about 10 months of showing they are not a great shooting team. We generate a lot of chances, and we are able to execute backdoor passes and execute a good fast break odd man rush, but when the cards are down in the playoffs and teams tighten up defensively, you need guys who can pick a corner, and games like last night expose that we just don't have any of them. Hitting any goalie 50+ times in the chest with a shot isn't going to win you many games. It basically requires your own goalie to go superhuman to win you games, which isn't at all sustainable.

 

[Negan4Coach]

He's got an excellent shot, and a very quick release. He got better looks than I was expecting last night, but thems the breaks.

That being said, he was far more physical than I was expecting. He went looking for contact last night and was willing to throw his body around. Now, I know after the game he said he intentionally went out with a mindset of throwing his weight around, but I really hope he keeps that up. We absolutely need that kind of presence on this team, and if he can teach whoever he's on the ice with to play like that, all the better.

But......

He's only one player, and the rest of the team has about 10 months of showing they are not a great shooting team. We generate a lot of chances, and we are able to execute backdoor passes and execute a good fast break odd man rush, but when the cards are down in the playoffs and teams tighten up defensively, you need guys who can pick a corner, and games like last night expose that we just don't have any of them. Hitting any goalie 50+ times in the chest with a shot isn't going to win you many games. It basically requires your own goalie to go superhuman to win you games, which isn't at all sustainable.

Agree with all.

Yeah, I did notice his physicality out there as well. But I also noticed Burn's physicality early in the season- and other guys who have since come and gone. It's like they come here and do that...and then notice that kind of play isn't the Canes thing and stop it.

I've been saying for years it is something about the organizational culture that discourages that sort of play, no matter the coach or even the owner. My hypothesis is that Karmonous grew up loving the Red Wings and wanted to create "Red Wings South" here and they were the only team that eschewed toughness for skill. So that mindset kinda hung around and that is why the Canes always had the lowest amount of fights, and we almost never see open ice hits, or any type of truculence or agitation no matter the era.

 

[StormCast]

We got goalied allright. By Kooch.

Hope he gets it together

Felt like playoff Ned in net.

 

[tarheelhockey]

If you mean savior for the PP, then yes I think he instantly improves it, but that doesn't mean we see our overall % suddenly jump into middle of the pack. It takes more than one player.

The biggest part of that will be to find an actual puck mover. Burns is good at what he does, but he is not a TDA or even a Dougie when it comes to distributing the puck quickly and with purpose. Funny enough, if Jake Gardiner were on the market he’d be a top target.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Agree with all.

Yeah, I did notice his physicality out there as well. But I also noticed Burn's physicality early in the season- and other guys who have since come and gone. It's like they come here and do that...and then notice that kind of play isn't the Canes thing and stop it.

I've been saying for years it is something about the organizational culture that discourages that sort of play, no matter the coach or even the owner. My hypothesis is that Karmonous grew up loving the Red Wings and wanted to create "Red Wings South" here and they were the only team that eschewed toughness for skill. So that mindset kinda hung around and that is why the Canes always had the lowest amount of fights, and we almost never see open ice hits, or any type of truculence or agitation no matter the era.

That's the pessimistic view, which I think is valid.

The optimistic view? My first thought watching him was "damn, that's a power forward. Maybe he can teach Svech that it's ok to do that." He looked like he was excited to be in a system that deploys such a heavy forecheck and seemed almost too willing to go throw his muscle around ("too willing" meaning I was concerned he was going to reinjure himself). Maybe that's a difference between him and the Burns example. On D, throwing a big check can often put you out of position for the ensuing play. But on the forecheck, havoc is the name of the game. Finish that check and even if they complete an outlet pass out of it, make them scared heading back into their corner the next time out.

Between his debut and some of the rumors we're hearing that he's interested in extending... I'm pumped. He seems psyched to be here, both Raleigh-wise and team system-wise.

 

[Tryamw]

The biggest part of that will be to find an actual puck mover. Burns is good at what he does, but he is not a TDA or even a Dougie when it comes to distributing the puck quickly and with purpose. Funny enough, if Jake Gardiner were on the market he’d be a top target.

Playoff acquisition?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So apparently games like last night happen often enough to this team that Canes fans on Reddit have started calling it "The Experience"

Which, IMO, isn't a very good name, not the least of which because "The" implies it only happens once or rarely.

But I do think we need to come up with some kind of name to describe this (unfortunately) rather common occurrence.

 

[Svechhammer]

That's the pessimistic view, which I think is valid.

The optimistic view? My first thought watching him was "damn, that's a power forward. Maybe he can teach Svech that it's ok to do that." He looked like he was excited to be in a system that deploys such a heavy forecheck and seemed almost too willing to go throw his muscle around ("too willing" meaning I was concerned he was going to reinjure himself). Maybe that's a difference between him and the Burns example. On D, throwing a big check can often put you out of position for the ensuing play. But on the forecheck, havoc is the name of the game. Finish that check and even if they complete an outlet pass out of it, make them scared heading back into their corner the next time out.

Between his debut and some of the rumors we're hearing that he's interested in extending... I'm pumped. He seems psyched to be here, both Raleigh-wise and team system-wise.

Yeah this is where I am....

I want to see how he plays out the rest of this season. I saw enough of him last night to see he's the exact kind of addition this team needs, but I also think he's not going to go far enough to getting us to where we need to be and we're still going to need at least one more big move at the deadline to really go for the title this year (and into the future). And I'm most interested to see if he continues his physical play. We absolutely need a physical forecheck that inflicts punishment and actively initiates contact rather than just pure grinding. We players to make us a team that pushes back when teams want to body us. What I saw out of Patches last night is the kind of player who could be a spark that encourages and leads the likes of KK and Svech (or heck, even Skjei, Burns, and Slavin on the backcheck) to throw their weight around as well to create that kind of play. But... I'm also worried that kind of physicality is frowned upon here in Raleigh and he'll be molded into the board battle grinding mindset that the rest of the team has deployed since... well... forever.

 

[AD Skinner]

So apparently games like last night happen often enough to this team that Canes fans on Reddit have started calling it "The Experience"

Which, IMO, isn't a very good name, not the least of which because "The" implies it only happens once or rarely.

But I do think we need to come up with some kind of name to describe this (unfortunately) rather common occurrence.

I think r/canes kind of sucks but I'm pretty sure that comes from the old "experience canes hockey" slogan

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Yeah this is where I am....

I want to see how he plays out the rest of this season. I saw enough of him last night to see he's the exact kind of addition this team needs, but I also think he's not going to go far enough to getting us to where we need to be and we're still going to need at least one more big move at the deadline to really go for the title this year (and into the future). And I'm most interested to see if he continues his physical play. We absolutely need a physical forecheck that inflicts punishment and actively initiates contact rather than just pure grinding. We players to make us a team that pushes back when teams want to body us. What I saw out of Patches last night is the kind of player who could be a spark that encourages and leads the likes of KK and Svech (or heck, even Skjei, Burns, and Slavin on the backcheck) to throw their weight around as well to create that kind of play. But... I'm also worried that kind of physicality is frowned upon here in Raleigh and he'll be molded into the board battle grinding mindset that the rest of the team has deployed since... well... forever.

I agree with you but frankly I don't think so at forward. We are already going to be sitting Stepan when Noesen comes back. I think this team is incredibly deep. Another forward acquisition puts Noesen as a healthy scratch too (unless the Canes decide to get very creative and send Jarvis a message but I doubt it). Maybe a Domi-esque acquisition but I'm not sure there's much room up and down the lineup anymore.

To me the acquisition needs to be a defenseman. De Haan has looked awful especially in the last few games, at least in my view. Would be interested to see Coghlan draw into the lineup again for him in the interim but I don't think he's your guy going into the playoffs. Need someone to shore up that 3rd pair.

 

[Borsig]

Desperation does funny things and the fan base is DESPERATE for ANYTHING to change the PP

I mean I thought Patches looked pretty good out there. I'm sure he'll be value add if he doesn't get re-injured, but I'm still not seeing how he is going to be the savior some have expected him to be.

 

[Borsig]

The biggest part of that will be to find an actual puck mover. Burns is good at what he does, but he is not a TDA or even a Dougie when it comes to distributing the puck quickly and with purpose. Funny enough, if Jake Gardiner were on the market he’d be a top target.

We had a puck mover. We opted to pay for a guy who was worthless and didn't want to be here instead of finding he money to keep him while he was an RFA. We could have found room for either TDA or Nino, but not both or tro with Burns. We did neither. Patches thing was pretty much the only thing we did do right this offseason, Even we knew Kase was made of very thin glass. One game tho....

I get we're top of the metro, that's great and all. I still feel like we are not as good as we were last year, and we have Andersen problems again.

We need to fix the PP / elite scoriing talent, team toughness lacks severely, and goaltending is a problem again, because even if kooch gets back to where he was a month ago, Raanta is made of paper, and Andersen is, what the hell ever he is... Not to be relied on.

That's the pessimistic view, which I think is valid.

The optimistic view? My first thought watching him was "damn, that's a power forward. Maybe he can teach Svech that it's ok to do that." He looked like he was excited to be in a system that deploys such a heavy forecheck and seemed almost too willing to go throw his muscle around ("too willing" meaning I was concerned he was going to reinjure himself). Maybe that's a difference between him and the Burns example. On D, throwing a big check can often put you out of position for the ensuing play. But on the forecheck, havoc is the name of the game. Finish that check and even if they complete an outlet pass out of it, make them scared heading back into their corner the next time out.

Between his debut and some of the rumors we're hearing that he's interested in extending... I'm pumped. He seems psyched to be here, both Raleigh-wise and team system-wise.

Where have we heard patches is interested in staying? I always felt he'd be a 1 year free rental.

 

[Svechhammer]

I agree with you but frankly I don't think so at forward. We are already going to be sitting Stepan when Noesen comes back. I think this team is incredibly deep. Another forward acquisition puts Noesen as a healthy scratch too (unless the Canes decide to get very creative and send Jarvis a message but I doubt it). Maybe a Domi-esque acquisition but I'm not sure there's much room up and down the lineup anymore.

To me the acquisition needs to be a defenseman. De Haan has looked awful especially in the last few games, at least in my view. Would be interested to see Coghlan draw into the lineup again for him in the interim but I don't think he's your guy going into the playoffs. Need someone to shore up that 3rd pair.

Oh I agree about defense. Chatfield has emerged as a pretty good defender and he spent most of the game last night busting his ass to cover for CDH's numerous miscues. I would definitely be on board with bringing in someone to slot into that last defensive spot. The Athletic mentions someone like Edmundson, and I wouldn't be completely opposed to it.

As for the forwards, I agree that we have depth, but I worry that we have depth at the detriment of top end talent. Frankly speaking, our scoring issues reside on the top 6, and we absolutely need to get more players there that can pick a corner. I do think Patches is one of those kind of guys, and he will absolutely help one of the lines, but the other needs help as well, even if that means sacrificing a bit of our depth in order to make sure we have legitimate snipers on each of our top 2 lines.

 

[tarheelhockey]

On D, throwing a big check can often put you out of position for the ensuing play. But on the forecheck, havoc is the name of the game. Finish that check and even if they complete an outlet pass out of it, make them scared heading back into their corner the next time out.

I would love to see that happen, but that’s not how the Canes play hockey. Our system values the forwards getting back into the defensive structure to suffocate the puck, not having them lying on their back at the other end of the ice after a big run at a defenseman who isn’t impacting the play.

The most physical we’re going to see any Hurricane forward is the Martinook/Ferland model of throwing the occasional glass-shaker when the opportunity is just right, but generally passing the opportunity so they can participate in the backcheck. We don’t even acquire the kind of guy who would deviate from that.

 

[Sigurd]

Aho and TT should be on the back of milk cartons. Hope they are found before April.

Trade TT for Meier with some sort of package with a prospect (not named Morrow) and a draft pick with Meier agreeing to extend, and Meier having enough salary retention for us to fit him under the cap.

Fantasy world scenario for sure, but there have been some passengers on this team IMO even at different points of the 11 game win streak, and even before, TT has really underperformed.

Anyway, this loss was really reminiscent of the loss to the Rangers in that the Canes gained the lead, then the opponent scores to tie it up, rinse and repeat a few times, until the opponent finally gains the lead and the Canes can't even tie it up.

Pyotr let in a couple of soft/bad goals that were actually kind of brutal to watch. The one goal where Chatfield was chasing a Nashville guy behind our net, and he passed to a wide open teammate because DeHaan and Aho were in no man's land, wasn't his fault though.

Max looked kind of better in his return from his much longer injury than Pyotr did IMO. I really hope we get to see more of the Max from our first power play which led to a goal (sadly it wasn't on Max's line). He had some great shots, and we've sorely needed more of that on the PP. For a guy out of the lineup for 8 months, I thought he had a very respectable return; in fact it was quite admirable due to the adversity he's gone through.

 

[whiskers]

I'm sorry but Chatfield is the least of our worries. If anything, he's been really good as a 5/6 D guy.
DeHaan on the other hand has not been good the last 2 weeks or so. At the TDL I think they replace deHaan with a PP qb type guy (Klingberg or Ghost?) or a bruiser (Gudas).

You kidding right , Chatfield good , hes all over the place , does stay in his zone , on the other side of the rink is all over also and we have the aho , svech necas going back to cover his ass , i never been pissed off at a defensemen play since Hamilton , Dougie with his stupid look when he made a mistake "duh what happened there" we dont need offensive only defenseman , we need a stay at home defensemen for Burns so Slavin could play more offensive , why isnt slavin on the 2nd PP maybe you think Dehaan is bad cause he always need to cover Chatfield , poor Dehann is too slow , not sure if the Kraken would trade him , id go for Larsson