GDT: ALIENS @ WHAT

[Svechhammer]

Trade TT for Meier with some sort of package with a prospect (not named Morrow) and a draft pick with Meier agreeing to extend, and Meier having enough salary retention for us to fit him under the cap.

Fantasy world scenario for sure, but there have been some passengers on this team IMO even at different points of the 11 game win streak, and even before, TT has really underperformed.

Anyway, this loss was really reminiscent of the loss to the Rangers in that the Canes gained the lead, then the opponent scores to tie it up, rinse and repeat a few times, until the opponent finally gains the lead and the Canes can't even tie it up.

Pyotr let in a couple of soft/bad goals that were actually kind of brutal to watch.

Max looked kind of better in his return from his much longer injury than Pyotr did IMO. I really hope we get to see more of the Max from our first power play which led to a goal (sadly it wasn't on Max's line). He had some great shots, and we've sorely needed more of that on the PP. For a guy out of the lineup for 8 months, I thought he had a very respectable return; in fact it was quite admirable due to the adversity he's gone through.

Both TT and Aho have been passengers for long stretches this year. Aho has had some blips here and there where he shows up, but for the most part he and his lines have been completely ineffective this year. The Svech and Necas line is our best, and its really not that close of a comparison anymore.

 

[Sigurd]

They’ve scored 3 or more goals in 16 of the last 17 games. With the defense they play they unsurprisingly had points in 15 of them. You have to replace someone to get another pure goal scorer, is it TT? Because you know the Staal line isn’t getting touched.

It has to be TT that gets traded if we had our preference from the roster. Not only performance wise, but salary wise too in order for us to make a trade feasible for presumably a top 6 forward.

Necas is ruled out after being the favorite trade asset/piece often discussed last year. Jarvis is still a big no. Obviously we aren't trading our top 4 D, or Aho, Svech, or Staal (or Staal's wingers for that matter; Martinook and Faust with Staal have been fantastic). We aren't trading Koko/KK this year after his first extension year with us; I really don't see that happening. So, TT is the only notable player left. If our goalies weren't constantly injured, we could talk about trading one of Andersen or Rantaa since Pyotr seems to be (for now at least) our long term starting goalie, but that's not happening.

We got goalie'd. It happens. I hate the fact that we had two opportunities to tie it on the PP in the third and there was zero expectation that that would happen. And the fact that they easily met that expectation.

100%.

Also, I don't know if it's been discussed enough from what I've seen so far, but the defensive breakdown when Chatfield was chasing a Nashville guy behind the net, and him passing to a Nashville teammate that was wide open because DeHaan and Aho weren't defending said guy that received the pass, led directly to a Nashville goal.

People hype up our defense (and overall justifiably so), but we still have some big defensive breakdowns on what seems to be a weekly basis. Granted that was our 3rd D pairing, but still.

 

[Deon Thompson]

We had a puck mover. We opted to pay for a guy who was worthless and didn't want to be here instead of finding he money to keep him while he was an RFA.

Who is this guy that is worthless and doesn't want to be here?

 

[Borsig]

Who is this guy that is worthless and doesn't want to be here?

Well he's gone now and we had to retain to get rid of him...

 

[Deon Thompson]

Well he's gone now and we had to retain to get rid of him...

Ahhhhh gotcha. You are right, that was dumb.

 

[ndp]

I’ve been super busy and haven’t had the chance to watch most games lately. But what little I’ve seen it seems like the Aho line is out with the third pairing quite a bit. If the numbers (paging @Boom Boom Apathy) support this, what kind of impact could that have on their offensive production?

The two losses were against teams that seem to play a really tight defensive game. Looked like the Rags and Preds did a really good job of getting tons of pressure on the puck, especially on the PK, seems like they took away time and space and the Hurricanes got sloppy, good learning opportunity for playoff style hockey. Add in two pretty solid goalie performances by Soros and Shesterkin, two perennial Venza finalists. And two mediocre outings by Pyotr.

They’re not going to win them all. Other than the PP, and so-so third pair this team looks fine to me. I hope the Staal line can keep up their unprecedented scoring pace going into the last half of the season and into the playoffs. I keep feeling like that line is going to hit a wall at some point and it hasn’t really happened yet. If it’s going to happen I wouldn’t mind them going ahead and getting it over with so they can be rolling again for the playoffs.

For the trade TT crowd.
17-18 2nd in points
18-19 2nd in points
19-20 2nd in points
20-21 11th in points, only played 21 games, would have finished top five.
21-22 3rd in points

I believe TT has a higher PPG average than any player not named Aho on the current roster, regular season and playoffs. He’s maintained a higher PPG in a Hurricanes uniform than Hurricanes legend Justin Williams, Mr. Game 7 himself, in the regular and playoffs. Yeah he’s had a slow start, but this is the guy some of you want to trade? I would love to get a big scoring power forward in return for TT but I don’t think the team is in a position to subtract a player who’s been a perennial top 3 scorer without 100% replacing or adding to his point totals. Not to mention his contributions to the PK.

 

[StorminSnvechnAho]

He's got an excellent shot, and a very quick release. He got better looks than I was expecting last night, but thems the breaks.

That being said, he was far more physical than I was expecting. He went looking for contact last night and was willing to throw his body around. Now, I know after the game he said he intentionally went out with a mindset of throwing his weight around, but I really hope he keeps that up. We absolutely need that kind of presence on this team, and if he can teach whoever he's on the ice with to play like that, all the better.

But......

He's only one player, and the rest of the team has about 10 months of showing they are not a great shooting team. We generate a lot of chances, and we are able to execute backdoor passes and execute a good fast break odd man rush, but when the cards are down in the playoffs and teams tighten up defensively, you need guys who can pick a corner, and games like last night expose that we just don't have any of them. Hitting any goalie 50+ times in the chest with a shot isn't going to win you many games. It basically requires your own goalie to go superhuman to win you games, which isn't at all sustainable.

I think when he's at game speed he is the missing peice on the Aho (which is MIA) I think it's MIA because it completely lacks any size.

 

[Svechhammer]

The two losses were against teams that seem to play a really tight defensive game. Looked like the Rags and Preds did a really good job of getting tons of pressure on the puck, especially on the PK, seems like they took away time and space and the Hurricanes got sloppy, good learning opportunity for playoff style hockey. Add in two pretty solid goalie performances by Soros and Shesterkin, two perennial Venza finalists. And two mediocre outings by Pyotr.

They’re not going to win them all. Other than the PP, and so-so third pair this team looks fine to me.

This is why we should be concerned. Those 2 teams played us like we should expect teams to play us in the playoffs, and as both of those games progressed, we looked as impotent as we did in the playoffs the last few years when teams tightened up on us. Dogshit PP, a PK that is suddenly in over its head, and an offensive attack that generates plenty of chances, but relatively few quality ones. And 3rd period meltdowns in each as the team was unable to stay out of the box.

Its the exact same playbook that ended our seasons in 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022. If this is a preview for what we can expect this spring and summer, we're in for a lot of frustration when our offense runs dry against teams that tighten up in front of their goalie and plays the body on us.

 

[Deon Thompson]

To add to that @ndp, which I agree with, trading Teravainen when his value is at its lowest point in a while is a very unCanesy thing to do. Unless some home run drops into our laps, I think we will (and should) not trade for a top six forward, but rather a 3LD of either the bruising or PPQB type with a cap hit under 3.075 million.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's not really a surprise that, at times, the Canes outshoots/out chances the opponent and loses the game. The whole game plan for Carolina is to outwork the other team and dominate possession and take lots of shots, particularly from defensemen (which are lower % shots). The Canes have only been out-shot in 6 games out of 39, so they are going to lose some when they outshoot the other team.

Here is the Canes record in each category this year.

Canes Outshoot Opponents: 22-6-3
Canes Outshoot by Opponents: 2-2-2
Canes and Opponent Tied in shots: 1-0-1

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I’ve been super busy and haven’t had the chance to watch most games lately. But what little I’ve seen it seems like the Aho line is out with the third pairing quite a bit. If the numbers (paging @Boom Boom Apathy) support this, what kind of impact could that have on their offensive production?

I noticed it as well, but I'm not sure how to get that data for just that last few weeks.

 

[ndp]

This is why we should be concerned. Those 2 teams played us like we should expect teams to play us in the playoffs, and as both of those games progressed, we looked as impotent as we did in the playoffs the last few years when teams tightened up on us. Dogshit PP, a PK that is suddenly in over its head, and an offensive attack that generates plenty of chances, but relatively few quality ones. And 3rd period meltdowns in each as the team was unable to stay out of the box.

Its the exact same playbook that ended our seasons in 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022. If this is a preview for what we can expect this spring and summer, we're in for a lot of frustration when our offense runs dry against teams that tighten up in front of their goalie and plays the body on us.

I agree to an extent. Good thing is they’ve got some time to work on it. I think part of their play style is on the coaches, and trying to keep players out of the box. But that’s a totally different discussion.

 

[ndp]

I noticed it as well, but I'm not sure how to get that data for just that last few weeks.

Again, I didn’t get to watch much of the winning streak due to work, family, holiday stuff. But I noticed against the Rangers and last night Aho and TT both seemed to spend a decent amount of time covering the points for a pinching CDH or Chatfield. Not exactly where they’re going to excel when it comes to putting up offensive production. Again, it just seemed this way, the numbers might show something completely different.

 

[Svechhammer]

I agree to an extent. Good thing is they’ve got some time to work on it. I think part of their play style is on the coaches, and trying to keep players out of the box. But that’s a totally different discussion.

We have time to work on it, but if our goal is really to win the Cup, then we really need to be brutally honest with ourselves in regards to the current makeup of this team and if its truly capable of making a run through teams that play us the same way that the Bostons, Tampas, New Yorks, and hell, even Nashville, do in the playoffs. And if the answer is no, or at least if its 'well, maybe if things break right', then its time to seriously consider what moves can be made to change that, even if that means pulling off a trade of someone valuable on our team now (with futures) for someone coming in who is better that pushes us over the top.

 

[ndp]

We have time to work on it, but if our goal is really to win the Cup, then we really need to be brutally honest with ourselves in regards to the current makeup of this team and if its truly capable of making a run through teams that play us the same way that the Bostons, Tampas, New Yorks, and hell, even Nashville, do in the playoffs. And if the answer is no, or at least if its 'well, maybe if things break right', then its time to seriously consider what moves can be made to change that, even if that means pulling off a trade of someone valuable on our team now (with futures) for someone coming in who is better that pushes us over the top.

I agree, if there’s a season to go all in, IMO, this is the one. I just don’t know if the FO looks at it the same way.

 

[hblueridgegal]

TT’s tumble. He and Aho may be a thing of yesteryear for a while.

 

[Svechhammer]

I agree, if there’s a season to go all in, IMO, this is the one. I just don’t know if the FO looks at it the same way.

The thing is, we have enough young pieces that we don't have to sell the farm to make a run. We have enough pieces that if we secure an elite top end talent, with the team we already have and the prospects we are looking to add over the next 2-5 years, we'll have the capability to run it back many times over. We just need to make the determination on whether this core right now is what we need, or if we can improve upon it, and there are potential targets out there that we could bring in with term to help us in that regard,

 

[Stickpucker]

Agree with all.

Yeah, I did notice his physicality out there as well. But I also noticed Burn's physicality early in the season- and other guys who have since come and gone. It's like they come here and do that...and then notice that kind of play isn't the Canes thing and stop it.

I've been saying for years it is something about the organizational culture that discourages that sort of play, no matter the coach or even the owner. My hypothesis is that Karmonous grew up loving the Red Wings and wanted to create "Red Wings South" here and they were the only team that eschewed toughness for skill. So that mindset kinda hung around and that is why the Canes always had the lowest amount of fights, and we almost never see open ice hits, or any type of truculence or agitation no matter the era.

I think RBA tells the guys to cut out chippy stuff so we don't end up on the pk.

Not that I like that mindset...

 

[Svechhammer]

I think RBA tells the guys to cut out chippy stuff

I mean fair, but I don't like us getting pushed around....

so we don't end up on the pk.

lol. I mean you're right, that's why he says that, but we stay out of that stuff and end up on a shitload of PKs anyway, so its not really working.

 

[AD Skinner]

We have time to work on it, but if our goal is really to win the Cup, then we really need to be brutally honest with ourselves in regards to the current makeup of this team and if its truly capable of making a run through teams that play us the same way that the Bostons, Tampas, New Yorks, and hell, even Nashville, do in the playoffs. And if the answer is no, or at least if its 'well, maybe if things break right', then its time to seriously consider what moves can be made to change that, even if that means pulling off a trade of someone valuable on our team now (with futures) for someone coming in who is better that pushes us over the top.

I don't necessarily disagree but this core has eliminated all but one of those teams from a tournament at least once

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Gotta love all the overreactions here because of 2 losses after we won like 16 in 18 games with points in the other 2... This team is fine and we'll be one of the top contenders in the playoffs easily.

 

[Svechhammer]

I don't necessarily disagree but this core has eliminated all but one of those teams from a tournament at least once

The New York that eliminated us is a lot different than than the one we beat. And both Nashville and Boston were teams in those years that had no business putting up the kind of fight they did against us, but they way they played had us scrambling.

 

[Stickpucker]

I mean fair, but I don't like us getting pushed around....



lol. I mean you're right, that's why he says that, but we stay out of that stuff and end up on a shitload of PKs anyway, so its not really working.

I agree...I think you need to show you won't eat someone else's turd.

Even Burns was busting nuts for people getting near the goalie early on....but he quickly turned into a p***y cat.

Gotta love all the overreactions here because of 2 losses after we won like 16 in 18 games with points in the other 2... This team is fine and we'll be one of the top contenders in the playoffs easily.

Some of it is valid so what's wrong with talking about it.

The real problem is our hot gdtman is sitting out Ala Andersen!!!!!#!$!

 

[StorminSnvechnAho]

TT’s tumble. He and Aho may be a thing of yesteryear for a while.

Faster than I expected.

 

[AD Skinner]

Thats a lot of talent for a fourth line