Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[egelband]

This is the last time I'm going to post on this because I'm not going to continue to argue the same points.

The bolded is the key thing you aren't understanding. You are drawing an unsupported conclusion. You are assuming that the only possible reason why Laf didn't receive an offer sheet is because other teams didn't value him at the amount that would be required for us to not match.

Most teams were incapable of offer sheeting him because they didn't have the cap space and/or didn't have the necessary draft picks. How does them not giving him an offer sheet prove that they don't value him that highly? That's like claiming someone doesn't like driving because they don't own a car.

The lack of cap space and draft picks are only 2 reasons why a team might not offer sheet a player. Chicago had the cap space and the picks, but did they want to pay Laf $6,435,186 and give up would could be a top 5 pick next year? Or maybe they feared that the Rangers would retaliate and go after Bedard 3 years from now. Or maybe they just didn't want to risk damaging the relationship between the teams. Maybe it was a combination of all these things.

You don't know. Neither of us knows. You can't just pick the one reason that supports your narrative and claim it as fact.

Exactly. Also, Laf may have been sent offer sheets he didn’t sign.

 

[JCProdigy]

What you are not understanding is that all of this salary cap nonsense doesn't change the fact that he wasn't offer sheeted which, by this fact alone, means that no one thought he was worth offer sheeting. I don't know how you can even argue this point.

All of the reasons you're giving above are PART OF THE REASON HE WASN'T WORTH OFFER SHEETING. Holy crap. It's not solely about him not realizing his potential it's also about the cost, the cap, the contract, and everything else. I'm not ignorant about these things for crying out loud.

You're taking this like I'm saying he's a worthless piece of shit player that's not worth a bag of pucks. I'm saying that no one thought it was worth the risk, whatever that entails, to offer sheet him and that's exactly what happened and why he's still a NY Ranger.

And...........still conjecture.

 

[haohmaru]

And...........still conjecture.

"It became clear that no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet, so there was no real sense of urgency to get a deal done.

As a result, negotiations came together a bit later in the offseason." LB, NYP

*FACT*

He wasn't offer sheeted.

 

[haohmaru]

Exactly. Also, Laf may have been sent offer sheets he didn’t sign.

See above

 

[bhamill]

Why didn't he sign it?



Yes it does or someone would have. I realize the risks, the cap concerns, the costs, etc...

This is a 1OA who might've been re-signed for the lowest % cap hit in history among 1OA's and 2nd contracts.

Nobody thought he was worth the risk.

I guess Zegras isn’t worth the risk either. The NHL very rarely has an offer sheet situation. The only two I can remember the last ten years are Aho and Kot, and Kot was only signed in retaliation. Many excellent players get to RFA and don’t get offer sheeted. It’s a terrible gauge of how a player is viewed around the league.

 

[haohmaru]

I guess Zegras isn’t worth the risk either. The NHL very rarely has an offer sheet situation. The only two I can remember the last ten years are Aho and Kot, and Kot was only signed in retaliation. Many excellent players get to RFA and don’t get offer sheeted. It’s a terrible gauge of how a player is viewed around the league.

Zegras would’ve cost at least a 1st and a 3rd based on beating the contract he ended up signing. The team offer sheeting him would’ve had to have cap space, a roster spot, and the assets to send the other way without missing them. Ie… a contender.

Lafreniere is a step or two below that, IMHO.

 

[JHS]

I still don't understand what people wanted from the coaches.

Laf wasn't given PP time because when he WAS given it, he was even worse than he was at EV

Plays DIE on his stick. He's not great at winning board battles.

This idea that Gallant or any head coach would remove Krieder, or Zbad or Bread from the PP to force feed a MUCH worse player mins is ridiculous.

EVEN IF a coach did, I don't see what skills he has to suddenly become anywhere close to elite at anything just from playing up a man.

His skating is horrible, he doesn't have a killer shot, he doesn't have insane vision or passing ability, his IQ isn't off the charts.

What skill is he magically improving on? Some might even say "creating"?

I hope he really breaks out this season... I do. I just don't see a path for that.

Right all true but you know he’s the numebr one overall pick who should just be gifted time on the PP?!?! Do yourself a favor and don’t try to talk sense into the Laf lovers. They are so excuse driven it’s like they are all lawyers.

 

[bhamill]

Zegras would’ve cost at least a 1st and a 3rd based on beating the contract he ended up signing. The team offer sheeting him would’ve had to have cap space, a roster spot, and the assets to send the other way without missing them. Ie… a contender.

Lafreniere is a step or two below that, IMHO.

Sure. There are always reasons. But the point stands that whether a player gets offer sheeted or not is a terrible gauge of how that player is viewed around the league. it’s an extremely rare occurrence.

 

[bhamill]

Right all true but you know he’s the numebr one overall pick who should just be gifted time on the PP?!?! Do yourself a favor and don’t try to talk sense into the Laf lovers. They are so excuse driven it’s like they are all lawyers.

Well there’s a difference between saying that being force fed minutes and PP1 time would have positively impacted his development and saying a team like NYR, with Pan and Kreider at LW, that is trying to win now, SHOULD have force fed him. It’s a no brainer for bottom feeders to do that as an investment and live with the growing pains, but even if you don’t think we were GOOD Laf’s first year, we still were not bottom feeders.

 

[JCProdigy]

"It became clear that no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet, so there was no real sense of urgency to get a deal done.

As a result, negotiations came together a bit later in the offseason." LB, NYP

*FACT*

He wasn't offer sheeted.

AND.......still conjecture.

Just Larry's now, lol.

 

[egelband]

See above

I wouldn’t read too much into that report. We know he wasn’t officially offer sheeted but that doesn’t mean there weren’t discussions or interest from other teams. It just means they just never got to the point that the rangers had to worry about it.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

"It became clear that no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet, so there was no real sense of urgency to get a deal done.

As a result, negotiations came together a bit later in the offseason." LB, NYP

*FACT*

He wasn't offer sheeted.

No surprise there. Teams don't want to get put on a shit list for doing so (even if it is legal by the CBA). Montreal learned that the hard way, well if whats his name ever becomes a decent player at least.

 

[haohmaru]

AND.......still conjecture.

Just Larry's now, lol.

I'll take his REPORTING over "maybe he got one and didn't sign it" conjecture, thanks. There's a difference.

 

[UnSandvich]

I'll take his REPORTING over "maybe he got one and didn't sign it" conjecture, thanks. There's a difference.

He's reporting his conjecture. Which is something people have said repeatedly but you seem completely incapable of understanding.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

99 percent of players aren't offer sheeted. There is no correlation between being offer sheeted and player interest around the league. What a wild concept when you only have 2 data points in the last ten years.

On the other hand.

I think laf will improve this year based on nothing but him being another year older.

He got the contract I was expecting.

 

[haohmaru]

He's reporting his conjecture. Which is something people have said repeatedly but you seem completely incapable of understanding.

Prove that it's conjecture. He reported no offer sheets were tendered. That's a fact that you seem incapable of understanding. What's conjecture is you assuming that he's making shit up or being presumptuous and, if that's the case, that's on HIM not ME.

 

[JHS]

Prove that it's conjecture. He reported no offer sheets were tendered. That's a fact that you seem incapable of understanding. What's conjecture is you assuming that he's making shit up or being presumptuous and, if that's the case, that's on HIM not ME.

Larry’s point is not even that the Rangers could wait till later in the summer to sign him. His point is— no other team had planned on giving him an offer sheet even if he was not signed by the Rangers. Again, I don’t view that as that telling or even that important but I will say, for a first overall pick to be viewed so poorly really should make people wonder what skill set this guy really has.

 

[UnSandvich]

Prove that it's conjecture. He reported no offer sheets were tendered. That's a fact that you seem incapable of understanding. What's conjecture is you assuming that he's making shit up or being presumptuous and, if that's the case, that's on HIM not ME.

"It became clear that no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet"
If Larry Brooks did not speak to every single other org in the league, then this is conjecture. Unless Brooks has an in with every single organization and GM in the league, and specifically asked them, and wasn't lied to, then this will always be conjecture. It is not reasonable to assume anything else. It may be a reasonable conclusion to draw for him, but it is still conjecture.

"Every organization I spoke to did not plan to present Lafreniere with an offer-sheet" is a statement of fact.
"no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet" is conjecture.

 

[JCProdigy]

I'll take his REPORTING over "maybe he got one and didn't sign it" conjecture, thanks. There's a difference.

Never said there wasn't....just that it's conjecture none-the-less.

 

[haohmaru]

"It became clear that no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet"
If Larry Brooks did not speak to every single other org in the league, then this is conjecture. Unless Brooks has an in with every single organization and GM in the league, and specifically asked them, and wasn't lied to, then this will always be conjecture. It is not reasonable to assume anything else. It may be a reasonable conclusion to draw for him, but it is still conjecture.

"Every organization I spoke to did not plan to present Lafreniere with an offer-sheet" is a statement of fact.
"no other team planned to present Lafreniere with an offer sheet" is conjecture.

Let's simplify this: did you consider that Larry might've checked in with Lafreniere's agent to confirm whether or not there were any offers.

That's one f***ing phone call. Stop it.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Let's simplify this: did you consider that Larry might've checked in with Lafreniere's agent to confirm whether or not there were any offers.

That's one f***ing phone call. Stop it.

It is likely that you are right. All you have to do is admit that it isn't 100% certain, and most people would probably agree with you.

Larry has been wrong way too often for anybody to blindly believe everything he writes.

 

[haohmaru]

Never said there wasn't....just that it's conjecture none-the-less.

Nope. I mean, he might be guilty of conjecture but then he's not reporting and shouldn't present it as such.

verb
gerund or present participle: reporting

1. 1. give a spoken or written account of something that one has observed, heard, done, or investigated.
   
   
   

 

[haohmaru]

It is likely that you are right. All you have to do is admit that it isn't 100% certain, and most people would probably agree with you.

Larry has been wrong way too often for anybody to blindly believe everything he writes.

I agree with that. But saying reporting isn't factual and conjecture is a fallacy. Larry might very well have pulling that out of his ass but his reporting on it reads as factual and, if he's grasping at straws, then he should present it as opinion.

That being said, I've said all along that I don't think Lafreniere was offer sheeted, Larry said the same thing, so anyone saying "blah blah blah he might've turned one down blah blah blah" are the real people making shit up.

Anyway, I'm out on this. This is an August dumb argument on a message board with a bunch of people, me included, that have absolutely nothing Rangers related to talk about lol.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Anyway, I'm out on this. This is an August dumb argument on a message board with a bunch of people, me included, that have absolutely nothing Rangers related to talk about lol.

This was the motivation for my post

Sometimes we get so bogged down in arguments, we forget that it started as some unimportant sideline to an actual discussion. I was compelled to try to find some common ground for you guys.

 

[will1066]

I'm dating the prom queen. Things don't always go rosy but we're hoping it works out. I'm freaking surprised no one made a move though. It's actually quite disappointing. I really wished someone did try to make a move.