Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[Shesterkybomb]

Bedard has show more in 1.5 periods than Laf ever has.

That's not because of "opportunity" it's because of skill & ability.

I am not saying that they're comparable. Quite the opposite.

Laf doesn't do anything well. No matter the opportunities he was or will be given.

He doesn't have the ability so they're NOT AT ALL comparable.

That's the problem

They aren't comparable, Bedard is considered a generational talent and he got picked by a bottom feeding team that will feed him minutes regardless of his defensive positioning. Lafreniere ended up 3 deep on the left wing on a team that thought they were cup contenders. I'm happy they are finally putting him with some high end players so we can get him rolling because the team is sunk without the kids progressing

 

[LORDE]

Is the board gonna ban Lafreniere talk? Cus he's gonna be here for a while. There's a reason they are moving him into the top 6, he has the ability, needs the confidence.

I meant he's not long for this team... therefore, this board.

He doesn't have the ability.

But yeah, he needs confidence ALSO on top of all of his other deficiencies.

They aren't comparable, Bedard is considered a generational talent and he got picked by a bottom feeding team that will feed him minutes regardless of his defensive positioning. Lafreniere ended up 3 deep on the left wing on a team that thought they were cup contenders. I'm happy they are finally putting him with some high end players so we can get him rolling because the team is sunk without the kids progressing

I said they're not!

I am illustrating the diff between "hoping" someone can do something when they can't & someone who can.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I meant he's not long for this team... therefore, this board.

He doesn't have the ability.

But yeah, he needs confidence ALSO on top of all of his other deficiencies.


I said they're not!

I am illustrating the diff between "hoping" someone can do something when they can't & someone who can.

He's got tons of ability, if you care not to look for it thats on you not him. Everyone was saying the same thing about Kakko a year and half ago, and now what? Some players take longer, some circumstances are different than others, i think we can wait this out instead of trading him for garbage.

I could compare bedard to Gretzky and be disappointed thats the point. They were never supposed to be the same player.

 

[LORDE]

He's got tons of ability, if you care not to look for it thats on you not him. Everyone was saying the same thing about Kakko a year and half ago, and now what? Some players take longer, some circumstances are different than others, i think we can wait this out instead of trading him for garbage.

I could compare bedard to Gretzky and be disappointed thats the point. They were never supposed to be the same player.

Thats absolutely false.

Kakko has hands. He puts his body (w size) in good positions. He actually has a shot when he decides to use it. He has decent enough awareness to kill penalties.

KK always showed more prior to last yr & we all hope he has a LOT more yeah?

Laf doesn't have tools. All he has is being drafted #1

No one can point to anything else except he's 22 (until midnight)

 

[Priorae]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter

Hope isn’t evidence. Expectations aren’t either. Both led many to believe that Kravtsov was an NHL player.

the ice don’t lie.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Hope isn’t evidence. Expectations aren’t either. Both led many to believe that Kravtsov was an NHL player.

the ice don’t lie.

Hate isnt evidence, wanting someone to fail isn't either.

 

[ReddestRum]

Hate isnt evidence, wanting someone to fail isn't either.

Who is saying they want Laf to fail???

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Thats absolutely false.

Kakko has hands. He puts his body (w size) in good positions. He actually has a shot when he decides to use it. He has decent enough awareness to kill penalties.

KK always showed more prior to last yr & we all hope he has a LOT more yeah?

Laf doesn't have tools. All he has is being drafted #1

No one can point to anything else except he's 22 (until midnight)

It's absolutely not false, if he was as bad as you point out there would be no way the team starts him in the top 6. The people that opinions matter believe in him, keyboard warriors I'm sure are crying in their basements at the thought that he might actually work out.

Who is saying they want Laf to fail???

That's the theme of the board, people making up shit that he wasn't training, wanting to trade him for scrubs today and not tomorrow. The board always picks someone to pile on so i shouldn't be surprised. There's always a whipping boy.

 

[RGY]

Excited to see what Lafreniere can do this year. If given increased ice time, whether it be 5v5 or PP, i see him at 50-55 points.

 

[RangerBoy]

[/QUOTE]

Kreider always had that dangerous burst of speed.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to say... Kreider came into the playoffs and lit the world on fire with his physical play and his 5 playoffs goals as rookie with no regular season games played.

Your boy Kreider struggled after his 2012 playoff performance. The NHL had another lockout in 2012 and Kreider played in the AHL. Kreider struggled. When the lockout was over, the Rangers brought him up to the NHL. People were saying Chris should not have been called up because his play was bad. I remember he had a bad first game at home against Pittsburgh and he was focus. Not the Rangers who looked lost losing 6-3 but it was Kreider's fault. Kreider had no hockey sense. He couldn't do this. He will never be a top line player. The Rangers should have traded him to Columbus in the Nash trade. His season was lackluster. He had issues with the coach. Kreider scored the GWG in a playoff game(game 4) against Boston and people still hated him.

The following season, Kreider had a so-so camp. Thw Rangers sent Kreider to the AHL to start the season. See we were right. Kreider sucks. Send him to Boston. He has no hockey sense. They couldn't mention his skating ability so they found a new issue. The Rangers recalled Kreider right away and those people were still mad. He doesn’t deserve the call-up. That was it. His AHL days were over.

 

[Profet]

Your boy Kreider struggled after his 2012 playoff performance. The NHL had another lockout in 2012 and Kreider played in the AHL. Kreider struggled. When the lockout was over, the Rangers brought him up to the NHL. People were saying Chris should not have been called up because his play was bad. I remember he had a bad first game at home against Pittsburgh and he was focus. Not the Rangers who looked lost losing 6-3 but it was Kreider's fault. Kreider had no hockey sense. He couldn't do this. He will never be a top line player. The Rangers should have traded him to Columbus in the Nash trade. His season was lackluster. He had issues with the coach. Kreider scored the GWG in a playoff game(game 4) against Boston and people still hated him.

The following season, Kreider had a so-so camp. Thw Rangers sent Kreider to the AHL to start the season. See we were right. Kreider sucks. Send him to Boston. He has no hockey sense. They couldn't mention his skating ability so they found a new issue. The Rangers recalled Kreider right away and those people were still mad. He doesn’t deserve the call-up. That was it. His AHL days were over.

You're still missing the point.

Patience is fine when you believe the player can show the physical tools, the mental abilities, or the skill required to play at or above their value.

In other words, an asset with upside.

And here is the key point:

I don't believe Lafreniere has upside. I think he's a passenger on a line with two improving players with tons of upside.

His trade value is far greater than his actual value.

 

[JHS]

Imagine the Hawks fans saying " Well if only Bedard played with better players he'd be more noticable." Ryan Donato is not exactly anyone to support Bedard and he looked about 100x the player Laf was last night.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Guys, if you're going to compare Lafreniere to Bedard, you may as well start comparing Shesty to Hasek, Panarin to Gretzky, Fox to Orr, etc.


All you're doing is frustrating yourself more.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The season can't start soon enough

 

[Priorae]

The season can't start soon enough

Haha, 100% agree. It’s time for sure.

 

[LORDE]

It's absolutely not false, if he was as bad as you point out there would be no way the team starts him in the top 6. The people that opinions matter believe in him, keyboard warriors I'm sure are crying in their basements at the thought that he might actually work out.


That's the theme of the board, people making up shit that he wasn't training, wanting to trade him for scrubs today and not tomorrow. The board always picks someone to pile on so i shouldn't be surprised. There's always a whipping boy.

1st of all I & no one else here wants him to fail. That is an absolute hyperbole. Nothing could be further from the truth.

2nd - I live in FL... basements aren't a thing here

 

[JHS]

Guys, if you're going to compare Lafreniere to Bedard, you may as well start comparing Shesty to Hasek, Panarin to Gretzky, Fox to Orr, etc.


All you're doing is frustrating yourself more.

My point is those making the argument that Laf is bad because he's never played with great players have already had their points disproven by the very first game of Bedard's career.

 

[NickyFotiu]

My point is those making the argument that Laf is bad because he's never played with great players have already had their points disproven by the very first game of Bedard's career.

Hockey is one of the sports where a great player can still look great while playing on bad teams. Many examples of great players on bad teams for years.

 

[will1066]

Laf watching Bedard last night

 

[bhamill]

Bedard has show more in 1.5 periods than Laf ever has.

That's not because of "opportunity" it's because of skill & ability.

I am not saying that they're comparable. Quite the opposite.

Laf doesn't do anything well. No matter the opportunities he was or will be given.

He doesn't have the ability so they're NOT AT ALL comparable.

That's the problem

Actually, you can compare anything to anything else, they don't have to be the same or similar, that's what comparison IS, the process of seeing what things do or DON'T have in common, but I take your point. And if I had compared Laf as a player to Bedard as a player, or even talked about all the things he does well, this would all be very relevant. But I didn't so it is not. However I did compare how he was handled to how most top picks are handled. And those things are also "not at all comparable." If you think that's wrong, there's really nothing to discuss.

 

[bhamill]

It's absolutely not false, if he was as bad as you point out there would be no way the team starts him in the top 6. The people that opinions matter believe in him, keyboard warriors I'm sure are crying in their basements at the thought that he might actually work out.


That's the theme of the board, people making up shit that he wasn't training, wanting to trade him for scrubs today and not tomorrow. The board always picks someone to pile on so i shouldn't be surprised. There's always a whipping boy.

He's the third leading goal scorer on this team, off of the powerplay, in the three years since he came here straight from Juniors, but he has no ability...
Saying he has no ability is just as delusional as saying he's a superstar. It's crazy how people's disdain for a player can just blot out reality.

 

[CLW]

HBD, LAFFY!

Here's to a great season! Hip hip!

 

[TGWL]

One of my favorite things lately is the narrative about hits being poorly tracked but apparently tracked well enough that it can be be proclaimed that all of Laf's hits are ineffective. Hahahaha. And before you hit me with the "eye test," I watch all the games too.
It's pretty reminiscent of how all of his goals were garbage and could be scored by anyone...
Look, no one is satisfied with his development/play... but this PTO nonsense is just that, nonsense. He was already a strong middle six winger in his D+3. He hits more than any forward not named Trocheck and since joining NYR straight out of Juniors has been our third leading goal scorer at even strength... But he had 4 underwhelming pre season games on his off wing learning a new system, so let's f***ing waive him...
Is this what you want from a 1OA? Of course f***ing not, but some of these takes are surface of the sun blazing hot.
I'd advocate trading him at this point just to make this board less crazy, but you KNOW they wont get value for him and it will just be WORSE around here. Imagine if he actually put it together after being traded... this place would be intolerable. Hahaha. The Buch Trade meltdown, on mega steroids.

Is this a shot at me because I said hits are poorly tracked? I mean, on the stat sheet, are you telling me they aren't? There's also a big difference between saying ineffective, and saying rarely creating any puck separation. I don't think anybody called him a plug who runs around like a battering ram, hitting the boards.

It's not 4 underwhelming preseasons game. It's 3 underwhelming seasons, and a new start to his 4th season. Nobody is just judging him on his preseason games as if we didn't see this for 3 years. Nobody is picking on him because they want to see him fail.

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

We all hope he does.

 

[JHS]

Hockey is one of the sports where a great player can still look great while playing on bad teams. Many examples of great players on bad teams for years.

Yes- if only half of this board understood that exact point.

 

[mas0764]

You're still missing the point.

Patience is fine when you believe the player can show the physical tools, the mental abilities, or the skill required to play at or above their value.

In other words, an asset with upside.

And here is the key point:

I don't believe Lafreniere has upside. I think he's a passenger on a line with two improving players with tons of upside.

His trade value is far greater than his actual value.

Laf does have tools but the mental side of his game is holding him far, far back.

Just like with Kreider in the past. The only difference is, Kreider had speed that Laf lacks.

But so what? Kreider is now an effective player and his speed barely comes into play.

Laf can morph into a power forward. He needs his head to be screwed on straight and as we saw with Kreider, that can take a while.

If it happens for him, he has the tools to be a non-speedster power forward. He just never will be that first overall talent we thought we were getting (and needed/still need).