Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[HockeyBasedNYC]

So far I think Laf is a solid not spectacular 3rd line player. I'm hoping this season he can find his way to becoming a 2nd line player but he has not been at that level yet in his career. I also share the concerns about his skills. I'm mostly concerned about his skating and to a lesser degree his puck handling. Think his backhand is good. I think his forehand could be good if he becomes more accurate at finding open areas of net. I think the first 40 games of this season will probably be important to both the coaches and our GM.

Ill take that. Would love for Laf to be a 2nd line player. It would still be under his draft expectations but its better than what we've seen to this point.

His forehand shot was pretty lethal early on and in juniors. I mean its not Matthews or Bedard level, lets not kid ourselves, but he has a good wrister we've seen it a few times.

He doesn't use it enough - probably because he can't. He cant find any open lanes to get any clear shots off. They are usually blocked. He doesnt make many successful one on one moves in traffic in the slot areas to get any kind of dangerous shots off. Yes, he we all know the two beauties hes scored (on the backhands) which were sweet, but he had time and space on those. His goals are scored in tight around the net, on odd man rushes or broken plays.

He hasnt really generated any mini breaks and come to think of it whens the last time he was sprung on any kind of breakway other than in a shootout? He's seldom up ice pushing the pace.

I think back to Buch and how he would get stood up at the line trying to make moves early on. But every year he would get a little better at it. It was like D+5 or 6 when it came around. He realized he could only do so much at the NHL level. We dont see him breaking down defenses with one on one plays a ton, but he developed in other ways finding clear entries into zones, finding shooting lanes and soft areas of the D to accept passes for one-time goals and high quality chances. Laf isnt going to burn anyone (thats become very clear) and if hes not able to dangle his hockey sense has to improve to get into better shooting areas. You dont need blazing speed or pace to accomplish that. You just need to tie it all together with the correct timing and better edges.

 

[DanielBrassard]

On top of that, New York’s first unit power play is so lethal that Lafrenière has barely sniffed the man advantage. So yes, Lafrenière hasn’t accomplished enough yet, but it’s virtually impossible to rack up big point totals when you’re playing on the third line, with barely any power-play time. When you account for that context, you realize that he’s shown some promise, even if it’s not at the level you’d hope from a No. 1 pick. Since entering the league as a rookie, Lafrenière is tied with Panarin, Alex Killorn, Bo Horvat and Phillip Danault in terms of five-on-five goals, and he’s scored more than Andrei Svechnikov, Tyler Toffoli, Mika Zibanejad and Rickard Rakell.

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theathletic.com

Over the last two seasons, Lafreniere actually produced quite well for someone who wasn’t given much time in the top six. Dating back to the start of the 2021-22 season, he's recorded 0.87 5-on-5 goals per 60 minutes, ranking him in the 83rd percentile of all skaters that played at least 500 minutes in that span, according to NaturalStatTrick.com.

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ca.sports.yahoo.com

This is one way to view it but it completely overlooks every other aspect of his game which is pedestrian at best and downright poor at worst. I don't say that because I want him to fail but it's just true.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

 

[NickyFotiu]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

I will be thrilled. That is all most of us want.

 

[Profet]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

Of course we would all be overjoyed for that to happen.

But... when it doesn't happen, are we giving him another year to figure it out? Or can we just move on?

 

[Kords]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

If he does, I wanna petition for a few posters to be branded with a scarlet L on their pfp.

 

[Ruggs225]

I will be thrilled. That is all most of us want.

I think there are quite a few that just want to be ”right” and are actively rooting for him to fail at this point

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think there are quite a few that just want to be ”right” and are actively rioting for him to fail at this point

A few but very few. I have skating concerns but still want Laf to become elite.

 

[RangerBlues]

Perhaps he just needs another cheesburger.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm trying to say that even though not a 1-for-1 comparison, at age 21 Kreider scored 3 points in 23 NHL games and Lafreniere scored 39.

Lafreniere is better as a complete NHLer than Kreider was at 21.

It's not over for Lafreniere. He's a disappointment but he can still quite easily carve out a top 6 NHL career. Maybe everyone was wrong on him and he is a guy who didn't belong in the NHL so young.



Agreed.



Oh I'm not saying Kreider was a smashing success of development.

I'm just saying for all the people saying "there's no hope," and to cut bait, that just isn't true. You can still quite easily get a good and valuable long term player out of Laf, even if he's never the star we really need.

And I'm not dumping him for Connor Garland.

I'd probably do Laf in a package for Pettersson at this stage, sure. Laf/Chytil/1st for Pettersson and change? I'd consider.

Id do that in a second

 

[Daves a mess]

This is one way to view it but it completely overlooks every other aspect of his game which is pedestrian at best and downright poor at worst. I don't say that because I want him to fail but it's just true.

Exactly. Plus

1pt in his last 15 games.

Can't imagine a single person here that doesn't want him to kill it out of the gate.

He's playing with Bread and Chytil, what more do his fan boys want?

 

[maris]

Lafreniere is a plus plus asset if on the third line. He is a net negative if on the first line at least at this stage of hos career

 

[NickyFotiu]

Hopefully Laf gets a hat trick in the opener!

 

[LORDE]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

Which board?

He's not long for this one.

As for the Kreider comparisons, I said a while back I'd take a Kreider career from him & was destroyed. (Not aimed at you)

Looking more & more enticing tho isn't it?

 

[will1066]

The back and forth with Laf on the wings needs to stop!

View attachment 750714

 

[bhamill]

I agree but I never said anything in regards to that. I said that players have an opportunity to show their skills every time they step on the ice. That does not have to be on the first line, second line, third line or fourth line. It doesn't have to be in a game. You can show your skating skills, shooting skills, stick handling skills, etc in practice. That goes for every player but some people are so wrapped up in saying Laf has never had an opportunity to show his skills they just do not get it.

I get that buddy, I was just hoping to give more nuance. My point was that these guys showed their skill in 4th line minutes after already being developed players. Most players don’t show the same level playing with guys who are not complimentary to their skills. I guarantee there was quite a drop off in scoring rate even for generational guys like Syd and Gretz on the 4th line as compared to with premier linemates. And I understand you don’t just mean results, but it’s way easier to look good with support…

 

[NickyFotiu]

Wishing I had Lafs first game opener recorded so I could see how people spoke about him. Excited to see Connor vs Crosby.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I get that buddy, I was just hoping to give more nuance. My point was that these guys showed their skill in 4th line minutes after already being developed players. Most players don’t show the same level playing with guys who are not complimentary to their skills. I guarantee there was quite a drop off in scoring rate even for generational guys like Syd and Gretz on the 4th line as compared to with premier linemates. And I understand you don’t just mean results, but it’s way easier to look good with support…

I think we just judge players in a different way. An opportunity to show your skills is not about scoring rates for me. You have an opportunity to show your skills on a rink alone. When I look at guys skills I don't look at stats. LOL I think back to when I got my hockey report card from hockey camp. There were probably 2 dozen skill categories (plus comments). No stats involved

 

[ReddestRum]

He's gonna have a good year and the board will be a lot quieter.

What fan doesn't want one of their players to excel? However, I've been hearing this since after his D+1. Any season now. Good in the past for a 3rd liner, but not for a 1OA. We'll see!

 

[bhamill]

I think we just judge players in a different way. An opportunity to show your skills is not about scoring rates for me. You have an opportunity to show your skills on a rink alone. When I look at guys skills I don't look at stats. LOL I think back to when I got my hockey report card from hockey camp. There were probably 2 dozen skill categories (plus comments). No stats involved

True, but I’m sure a guy like Gauthier looks like a superstar showing off some of his skills alone on the ice. If it doesn’t translate, though, what’s the point? In the end “scoring” ITSELF is a lot more important skill than LOOKING skilled. Sure everyone likes seeing “high skill” fancy plays, but in the end I’ll take the guy who is effective and gets results over someone who looks/is skilled but doesn’t get results. If player A gets high skill marks across the board but doesn’t get the stats, and player B gets mediocre grades, but actually puts up numbers, guess which one I want on the team.

 

[Greg02]

It's time to kill two birds with one stone.

Lafreniere for backup goalie.

 

[NickyFotiu]

True, but I’m sure a guy like Gauthier looks like a superstar showing off some of his skills alone on the ice. If it doesn’t translate, though, what’s the point? In the end “scoring” ITSELF is a lot more important skill than LOOKING skilled. Sure everyone likes seeing “high skill” fancy plays, but in the end I’ll take the guy who is effective and gets results over someone who looks/is skilled but doesn’t get results. If player A gets high skill marks across the board but doesn’t get the stats, and player B gets mediocre grades, but actually puts up numbers, guess which one I want on the team.

I understand your point but we are going in different directions. Was only commenting on opportunities. My point was there are many opportunities. Many come in practice. They can come in the first shift of a game just as easily as the 15th shift of the game. Going back to the original post days ago to think Laf has never had an opportunity show his skills is silly imo.

 

[bhamill]

I understand your point but we are going in different directions. Was only commenting on opportunities. My point was there are many opportunities. Many come in practice. They can come in the first shift of a game just as easily as the 15th shift of the game. Going back to the original post days ago to think Laf has never had an opportunity show his skills is silly imo.

My take has never been that Laf has never had ANY opportunity to show his skills, it’s that he hasn’t had the opportunities most top 5 picks get that furthers their development. So you’re right we are kind of talking about two different things.

 

[LORDE]

My take has never been that Laf has never had ANY opportunity to show his skills, it’s that he hasn’t had the opportunities most top 5 picks get that furthers their development. So you’re right we are kind of talking about two different things.

Bedard has show more in 1.5 periods than Laf ever has.

That's not because of "opportunity" it's because of skill & ability.

I am not saying that they're comparable. Quite the opposite.

Laf doesn't do anything well. No matter the opportunities he was or will be given.

He doesn't have the ability so they're NOT AT ALL comparable.

That's the problem

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Of course we would all be overjoyed for that to happen.

But... when it doesn't happen, are we giving him another year to figure it out? Or can we just move on?

I didn't realize he turned 38.

Which board?

He's not long for this one.

As for the Kreider comparisons, I said a while back I'd take a Kreider career from him & was destroyed. (Not aimed at you)

Looking more & more enticing tho isn't it?

Is the board gonna ban Lafreniere talk? Cus he's gonna be here for a while. There's a reason they are moving him into the top 6, he has the ability, needs the confidence.