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Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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Machinehead said:
It's important to mention that while, yes, MacKinnon and Hughes and slowish starts in terms of raw production before becoming the players they are, you could still see it.

MacKinnon had some health issues and Hughes was like 160 pounds. Beyond that, it's tough adjusting to the NHL, but the flashes of talent were there.

As I mentioned before, Lafreniere isn't a player where I say "gee, he's talented but that one thing is going to hold him back." He's a player where I say "he's in the lineup today?"
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Hughes proved me wrong. I was concerned he might be a lesser player (because he was smaller) than he has become.
 
I feel like we should have this thread locked until the season starts. Everyone is shitting on Laf so hard and we have yet to see a single regular season game this season…
 
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bhamill said:
And Laf's draft class had COVID disruptions to their development. There are a LOT of variables, sure. Again, I'm saying his numbers are not a chasm away.
Mac's D+4 he had 53 points with 14 on the pp. Laf's D+3 he had 39 with 2 on the pp. That gives Mac a 39 to 37 EV point advantage going by age rather than draft eligibility. Personally I go by eligibility as far as development, because of the kind of coaching and programs you get as you move into major junior hockey, but I take your point.
Again, these are just numbers, I'm not trying to offend anyone's sensibilities. I'm not saying Laf will ever be as valuable as Mac. OR that it's likely, but he COULD still turn out to be an excellent player in this league.
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Right now the only variables that matter is that Laffy doesn't seem to have chemistry with anyone. Hand on heart, not even Chytil. He is blocked by two of the strongest LW players in the league, he sucks at RW and in general is far from an ideal 3rd line type of player.

This kid needs to find some positive traction going for himself but to do that he needs to be much more engaged than he's been for many months now.
 
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Zats Muccarello said:
I feel like we should have this thread locked until the season starts. Everyone is shitting on Laf so hard and we have yet to see a single regular season game this season…
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you're entitled to feel that way.

but

this thread is an outlet to vent. yes some posts will be severely harsh. some not as bad. a few that are actually supportive - shocker yeah? and last but not least there are some humorous bits and pieces sprinkled here and there. so ahh no this thread should NOT be locked.

everytime there's a thread you feel is going way overboard your sensibilities somehow become violated and not to your liking your solution is to shut down an outlet of communication of all the others?
 
bleedblue94 said:
Yes, but he called it back when the kid was in junior, not years into his pro career
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What I was trying to convey is that an issue of that nature is pretty darn obvious to pick up on just from watching a player play the game. Its not some special insight that no one who previously watched him play the game could have seen coming.
 
wolfgaze said:
What I was trying to convey is that an issue of that nature is pretty darn obvious to pick up on just from watching a player play the game. Its not some special insight that no one who previously watched him play the game could have seen coming.
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Yet he did... and no one else (who I'm aware of) did.
 
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Profet said:
Yet he did... and no one else (who I'm aware of) did.
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Because the majority of us do not view Junior hockey games with any regularity. Why is it regarded as some special insight/analysis to have stated an obvious observation? Would you not have detected Laf's skating and engagement issues from watching him play? This issue was readily apparent. It's like someone who watched Fox play in the NCAA saying "See I told you guys Adam Fox had a poor shot!"...Well duh. Just watch him play the game.
 
wolfgaze said:
Because the majority of us do not view Junior hockey games with any regularity. Why is it regarded as some special insight/analysis to have stated an obvious observation? Would you not have detected Laf's skating and engagement issues from watching him play? This issue was readily apparent. It's like someone who watched Fox play in the NCAA saying "See I told you guys Adam Fox had a poor shot!"...Well duh. Just watch him play the game.
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Um... almost none of the scouts pointed at this issue. And we still drafted him with this issue.
 
Profet said:
Um... almost none of the scouts pointed at this issue. And we still drafted him with this issue.
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Was it the same scouts who were high on Yakupov? Are you suggesting you would not have been able to discern these issues from watching Lafreniere play the game (in Juniors) unlesss Edge came along and told you this was so? Because that's what it sounds like.
 
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Oh man.

Going back to last years playoffs, Isn't tonite going to be like the 13th straight game that Laf hasn't played?
 
wolfgaze said:
Was it the same scouts who were high on Yakupov? Are you suggesting you would not have been able to discern these issues from watching Lafreniere play the game (in Juniors) unlesss Edge came along and told you this was so? Because that's what it sounds like.
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I'm saying that, I'm not a professional scout.

But the professional scouts got it wrong, and Edge saw it for what it was.

Hindsight is 20/20... Sometimes it's difficult to discern a young player learning/growing and struggling in juniors, vs a young player who is more physically mature and dominating...but whose game wont translate.
 
Profet said:
I'm saying that, I'm not a professional scout.

But the professional scouts got it wrong, and Edge saw it for what it was.

Hindsight is 20/20... Sometimes it's difficult to discern a young player learning/growing and struggling in juniors, vs a young player who is more physically mature and dominating...but whose game wont translate.
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So you had to be a 'professional scout' to pick up on the shortcomings in Laf's game yet you proceed to point out that the professional scouts got their analysis wrong? Do you see the contradictory nature of appealing to being a 'professsional scout' while simultaneously highlighting that professional scouts are flawed/mistaken?

The more seasoned and sensible Ranger fans didn't notice Laf's skating and engagement issues in season 1? Why is there this fixation with crediting someone for pointing this out when we (the fans) had absolutely no control over who we drafted? It is what it is.
 
CLW said:
Right now the only variables that matter is that Laffy doesn't seem to have chemistry with anyone. Hand on heart, not even Chytil. He is blocked by two of the strongest LW players in the league, he sucks at RW and in general is far from an ideal 3rd line type of player.

This kid needs to find some positive traction going for himself but to do that he needs to be much more engaged than he's been for many months now.
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Well three pre season games at RW, all with different linemates, doesn't tell me much TBH. He may take to it, he may not.
We are just going to have to see how the season unfolds for him.
 
Synergy27 said:
The trend over the last several years has been straight up. It’s likely to be even higher this year.
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Checked out the numbers for kicks. All situations goal scoring went up by 13% from the average of Macs first three years to the average of Laf’s first three. Power play goals went up by about 15% in that time frame. Which accounts for a bit of a skew but not too much. So EV scoring probably went up 11-12%.
Did Mac get 11-12% more ice time than Laf? didn’t look, but I I would not be surprised. If Laf was getting an average of 13, 15. minutes avg for Mac would be more than that percentage greater. That’s what I meant earlier when I mentioned variables. Some of these things even it out statistically.
Also, scoring went up 1% last year over the year before. I wouldn’t expect a giant leap this year, but who knows.

edit: took a quick look
Laf averaged 14.3 mins a game, Mac averaged 17.8 mins a game. But of course more of that was powerplay for Nat than Laf so it’s hard to say how much of the 3.5 minutes extra per game was power play, rather than EV, time.
 
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bhamill said:
Well three pre season games at RW, all with different linemates, doesn't tell me much TBH. He may take to it, he may not.
We are just going to have to see how the season unfolds for him.
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I really want it to work out. I still have hope for him. I don’t want him traded, demoted, cut, whatever. But we need to stop with excuses and blaming the coaches. If he can’t play RW, it’s unfortunate because that’s his path to the top 6. Skate on the 3rd line, play hard, take it serious and let’s see where the chips fall at the end of the year. Because the stone cold truth is, the two guys ahead of him on the depth chart are much, much better players.
 
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