Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

I have very limited knowledge of Lafs game but what I was understanding from your posts, he process the game like an Atari.

I'm not sure you can do much with a guy who needs time to read the ice. If he doesn't have any other elite tools, then he simply crippled whatever tools he has.

In 2001 the Habs drafted Komisarek. I play RD and was over the moon that the Habs have a monster RD. The kid even looked like my younger self.

I started to go to Hamilton games (AHL team) just to watch him play. Reality struck hard. He had decent skating, strong as anyone but had a fundamental flaw, he didn't process the game. Guys would come down the wing and he either got fished or they would skate around him. I be sitting 10 rows up and groaning...close the lane, don't chase him, cover the angle. All the basic stuff he should be doing, he simply didn't see them.

Worse, after another brain fart, he would go to the bench, shake his head and sulk. Julien wasn't much help because all he did was brow beat him and bench him.

How do you teach someone to process the game? That's impossible. All one can do is rinse and repeat what they should do, but unlike skating, it's not going to change much.

He finally made it to the NHL and was paired with Markov, a guy who made his living on processing the game. Played with him for few years then bolted for the Leafs. Got one contract and was out of the NHL before 30.

If Laf can't process the game the the only slight hope is to pair him with an elite vision center that has the patience to explain the game to him. In turn he has to be the net presence guy or the corner digger, or the blazing shot....bring SOMETHING to his game that makes him productive.

Good luck with him....

atari? more like pong

 

[RangersFan1994]

Furious fans call for Lafreniere to be cut from Rangers

Biggest bust since Yakupov? Biggest bust ever?!?!

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[Kendo]

Furious fans call for Lafreniere to be cut from Rangers

Biggest bust since Yakupov? Biggest bust ever?!?!

www.hockeyfeed.com

I mean, he's already surpassed Yak's highest total, so possibly "worst since," but certainly not worst ever.

"He's a three year pro who has been given plenty of opportunity from the Rangers since the moment he was drafted 1st overall." Really? PLENTY of opportunity?

 

[Profet]

I mean, he's already surpassed Yak's highest total, so possibly "worst since," but certainly not worst ever.

"He's a three year pro who has been given plenty of opportunity from the Rangers since the moment he was drafted 1st overall." Really? PLENTY of opportunity?

Some players take any and all opportunities and force their way onto and then up the roster.

Other players Laf it all away.

 

[JHS]

Some players take any and all opportunities and force their way onto and then up the roster.

Other players Laf it all away.

Yup exactly right- I've made this point over and over again on here and it seems like this group is totally divided on how players should "earn" their opportunities vs are just given.

 

[NickyFotiu]

While I admit I'm concerned about Laf's skating one thing I will say in Laf's defense is the talk that he was great in juniors only because he was born in October with a later birthday than some is nonsense. Some great kids are playing against guys 3-6 years older than them. Some people used to say similar age things like that about Larry Bird. That Bird was only a great college basketball player because he was older than other players. Then it was Larry Bird was only a great NBA rookie because he was older than other rookies. Larry Bird's career proved that was all nonsense. Laf may have had a tough transition from juniors to the NHL but the only great because of age stuff doesn't hold water imo.

 

[Machinehead]

While I admit I'm concerned about Laf's skating one thing I will say in Laf's defense is the talk that he was great in juniors only because he was born in October with a later birthday than some is nonsense. Some great kids are playing against guys 3-6 years older than them. Some people used to say similar age things like that about Larry Bird. That Bird was only a great college basketball player because he was older than other players. Then it was Larry Bird was only a great NBA rookie because he was older than other rookies. Larry Bird's career proved that was all nonsense. Laf may have had a tough transition from juniors to the NHL but the only great because of age stuff doesn't hold water imo.

It's not just that he was a little bit older. It's how his body developed. He walked into junior hockey a man.

The 2017-18 Oceanic roster lists him at 6'2", 196:

Rimouski Oceanic Roster @ QMJHL 2017‑2018

Rimouski Oceanic roster in the 2017-2018 QMJHL season. Player birthdate, birthplace, height and weight information for the Rimouski Oceanic.

www.quanthockey.com

The Rangers list him right now at 6'1", 194:

New York Rangers 2024 - 2025 Roster | New York Rangers

The official 2024 - 2025 roster of the New York Rangers, including position, height, weight, date of birth, age, and birth place.

www.nhl.com

We'll call it 6'1" and a half. Point is, he had the body he has now at 16 and he was playing against kids.

Compare that to Kevin Hayes who was drafted at 6'2" and made his NHL debut at 6'5". Or K'Andre Miller who was 6'2" at Minnetonka High and has to be close to 6'6" now.

It's not age, it's when you grew and when you had an adult body. Getting your adult body early skews your early numbers.

Granted, Larry Bird was 6'9" when he was like 11, but that's Larry Bird. He was an exception in every way.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It's not just that he was a little bit older. It's how his body developed. He walked into junior hockey a man.

The 2017-18 Oceanic roster lists him at 6'2", 196:

Rimouski Oceanic Roster @ QMJHL 2017‑2018

Rimouski Oceanic roster in the 2017-2018 QMJHL season. Player birthdate, birthplace, height and weight information for the Rimouski Oceanic.

www.quanthockey.com

The Rangers list him right now at 6'1", 194:

New York Rangers 2024 - 2025 Roster | New York Rangers

The official 2024 - 2025 roster of the New York Rangers, including position, height, weight, date of birth, age, and birth place.

www.nhl.com

We'll call it 6'1" and a half. Point is, he had the body he has now at 16 and he was playing against kids.

Compare that to Kevin Hayes who was drafted at 6'2" and made his NHL debut at 6'5". Or K'Andre Miller who was 6'2" at Minnetonka High and has to be close to 6'6" now.

It's not age, it's when you grew and when you had an adult body. Getting your adult body early skews your early numbers.

Granted, Larry Bird was 6'9" when he was like 11, but that's Larry Bird. He was an exception in every way.

I just do not think being 6-1 196 makes a junior player great. I also do not believe just being a certain height or weight at 18 means you have your full adult strength. Ive known plenty of smaller grown men that were a lot stronger than 6 foot 200 pound 18 year olds.

I'm as concerned about Lafs skating, puck handling and motor as most people. i just do not think it was superior size/age that made him good in juniors. I think that is a reach. That does not mean he will be a good NHL player. The NHL is a totally different level of play.

 

[TheDirtyH]

It's not just that he was a little bit older. It's how his body developed. He walked into junior hockey a man.

The 2017-18 Oceanic roster lists him at 6'2", 196:

Rimouski Oceanic Roster @ QMJHL 2017‑2018

Rimouski Oceanic roster in the 2017-2018 QMJHL season. Player birthdate, birthplace, height and weight information for the Rimouski Oceanic.

www.quanthockey.com

The Rangers list him right now at 6'1", 194:

New York Rangers 2024 - 2025 Roster | New York Rangers

The official 2024 - 2025 roster of the New York Rangers, including position, height, weight, date of birth, age, and birth place.

www.nhl.com

We'll call it 6'1" and a half. Point is, he had the body he has now at 16 and he was playing against kids.

Compare that to Kevin Hayes who was drafted at 6'2" and made his NHL debut at 6'5". Or K'Andre Miller who was 6'2" at Minnetonka High and has to be close to 6'6" now.

It's not age, it's when you grew and when you had an adult body. Getting your adult body early skews your early numbers.

Granted, Larry Bird was 6'9" when he was like 11, but that's Larry Bird. He was an exception in every way.

Not that it totally contradicts, but I think it's not likely he was near 200lbs at 15. There's a long profile on him where they say he put on 20 pounds across his time in the Q, ending up in the 190s in his draft year.

Can world juniors answer questions surrounding hockey’s top prospect?

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Beniers10 Hughes86]

It's not just that he was a little bit older. It's how his body developed. He walked into junior hockey a man.

The 2017-18 Oceanic roster lists him at 6'2", 196:

Rimouski Oceanic Roster @ QMJHL 2017‑2018

Rimouski Oceanic roster in the 2017-2018 QMJHL season. Player birthdate, birthplace, height and weight information for the Rimouski Oceanic.

www.quanthockey.com

The Rangers list him right now at 6'1", 194:

New York Rangers 2024 - 2025 Roster | New York Rangers

The official 2024 - 2025 roster of the New York Rangers, including position, height, weight, date of birth, age, and birth place.

www.nhl.com

We'll call it 6'1" and a half. Point is, he had the body he has now at 16 and he was playing against kids.

Compare that to Kevin Hayes who was drafted at 6'2" and made his NHL debut at 6'5". Or K'Andre Miller who was 6'2" at Minnetonka High and has to be close to 6'6" now.

It's not age, it's when you grew and when you had an adult body. Getting your adult body early skews your early numbers.

Granted, Larry Bird was 6'9" when he was like 11, but that's Larry Bird. He was an exception in every way.

You are concerned with size when it come to prospect like Aaron Ekblad, Joe Thornton or Eric Lindros because they was HUGE in junior. But at 6-1 and 190 pound are Laffy really that huge in junior? I read alot of what you all been saying and as Laffy fan I come to the conclusion that this is about confidence and maturity which will come with time. I still have hope for Laffy.

 

[Raspewtin]

kicked off PP2 for Cuylle

that’s pretty bad.

 

[Synergy27]

kicked off PP2 for Cuylle

that’s pretty bad.

I mean, he doesn’t have a single A+ skill that can’t be ignored and that must be featured on the PP. He’s pretty good at most things.

I assume Cuylle is going to be the netfront guy on PP2? He’s a rugged kid that is willing to take that beating and he seems to have good hands a a knack for finding loose pucks.

No brainer.

 

[bleedblue94]

This kid is 18 and his work ethic tells you everything you need to know about how bad he wants to be a great in this league. From letting the Hawks media know not to step on the logo in the locker room during a news conference, to putting the work in (and I'm sure no COACH in his org is telling him to practice AFTER practice), you can tell the dude is headed for some great seasons ahead of him.

Meanwhile laffy is chugging beers at slow pitch softball games...

 

[bleedblue94]

Fox is shifty on his feet. He has Edgework. He has balance. He has pivots. He can stop and start. He's just skating in mud at times. Laf has none of those qualities. But I agree, he's not thinking the game at an NHL level. Everything is slow.

Also going back to prior to the actual pick Edge nailed it stating a huge issue for laffy is keeping his feet moving and staying engaged. Edge was 100% right and it still applies 4 years later

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

kicked off PP2 for Cuylle

that’s pretty bad.

but but wait a minute. didn't we see a clip where 13 scored a pp goal in practice yesterday?

if it was just for one shift then i'm guessing lavi had an idea in his mind that he wanted to experiment in that moment. if cuylie gets more than one pp shift going onward... well it's still the preseason.

 

[Machinehead]

You are concerned with size when it come to prospect like Aaron Ekblad, Joe Thornton or Eric Lindros because they was HUGE in junior. But at 6-1 and 190 pound are Laffy really that huge in junior? I read alot of what you all been saying and as Laffy fan I come to the conclusion that this is about confidence and maturity which will come with time. I still have hope for Laffy.

It's not about size. It's about being fully developed physically.

 

[bleedblue94]

I think he was handed everything even pre-draft. Perhaps that is part of the issue. Does he really not get, on a fundamental level, that he is expected to be extraordinary on the ice? We see videos of the Bedards and the Kanes and Mackinnons etc working their arses off to improve and hone their skills, but that dimension simply does not seem to exist in Laf's universe whatsoever. Wtf is going on. Is he a little simple? And that's a genuine question not bashing him personally.

I brought up issues that first training camp about how he was being treated like he was kreider right off the bat. Nothing to earn, always laughing about everything, not a care in the world, celebrated by the org bc of his status as first 1oa pick. He was given status right away but there really wasn't humility. I just didn't like the way it played out and I don't know if part of it was that the business team figured they had a more marketable draft pick after some of the bombs they had trying to market kakko in his rookie year.

I want nothing more than for laffy to succeed but literally everything on the ice is effortful for him. Shooting, passing, skating, reads, none of it seems natural. Most elite players have a couple skills that standout that are their gift that seems to be their thing. Fox with his edges and head fakes, bread with his passing and stickhandling, zib with his shot, even kakko with his possession and chytil with his skating. Laffy just doesn't have one thing that defines him nor that seems to be a natural gift. I remember his rookie year he kept missing on some many chances and when he finally scored in ot against Buffalo I thought that might be the weight off his back but every goal seems like a struggle.

kicked off PP2 for Cuylle

that’s pretty bad.

This is more message sending.

New coach giving him opportunities and already being disappointed and sending him messages. Kid isn't long for this org

 

[CLW]

I brought up issues that first training camp about how he was being treated like he was kreider right off the bat. Nothing to earn, always laughing about everything, not a care in the world, celebrated by the org bc of his status as first 1oa pick. He was given status right away but there really wasn't humility. I just didn't like the way it played out and I don't know if part of it was that the business team figured they had a more marketable draft pick after some of the bombs they had trying to market kakko in his rookie year.

I want nothing more than for laffy to succeed but literally everything on the ice is effortful for him. Shooting, passing, skating, reads, none of it seems natural. Most elite players have a couple skills that standout that are their gift that seems to be their thing. Fox with his edges and head fakes, bread with his passing and stickhandling, zib with his shot, even kakko with his possession and chytil with his skating. Laffy just doesn't have one thing that defines him nor that seems to be a natural gift. I remember his rookie year he kept missing on some many chances and when he finally scored in ot against Buffalo I thought that might be the weight off his back but every goal seems like a struggle.


This is more message sending.

New coach giving him opportunities and already being disappointed and sending him messages. Kid isn't long for this org

Laf came in and immediately slotted in as the Big Boi group's favorite little bro or little cousin. It never sat well with me.

Hopefully today is less about sending messages and more about him not playing tomorrow. But I'm probably kidding myself.

At the end of last season I speculated he might get traded over the summer but honestly I don't see any ready takers with things the way they are. At this point any trade will probably be as part of a bigger deal and involve another player some team is targeting.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I have very limited knowledge of Lafs game but what I was understanding from your posts, he process the game like an Atari.

I'm not sure you can do much with a guy who needs time to read the ice. If he doesn't have any other elite tools, then he simply crippled whatever tools he has.

In 2001 the Habs drafted Komisarek. I play RD and was over the moon that the Habs have a monster RD. The kid even looked like my younger self.

I started to go to Hamilton games (AHL team) just to watch him play. Reality struck hard. He had decent skating, strong as anyone but had a fundamental flaw, he didn't process the game. Guys would come down the wing and he either got fished or they would skate around him. I be sitting 10 rows up and groaning...close the lane, don't chase him, cover the angle. All the basic stuff he should be doing, he simply didn't see them.

Worse, after another brain fart, he would go to the bench, shake his head and sulk. Julien wasn't much help because all he did was brow beat him and bench him.

How do you teach someone to process the game? That's impossible. All one can do is rinse and repeat what they should do, but unlike skating, it's not going to change much.

He finally made it to the NHL and was paired with Markov, a guy who made his living on processing the game. Played with him for few years then bolted for the Leafs. Got one contract and was out of the NHL before 30.

If Laf can't process the game the the only slight hope is to pair him with an elite vision center that has the patience to explain the game to him. In turn he has to be the net presence guy or the corner digger, or the blazing shot....bring SOMETHING to his game that makes him productive.

Good luck with him....

Laf processes the game just fine, there's a lot of people almost rooting for him to fail in here, he needs more ice time, more speed and endurance, processing the game isn't his issue. Still a young player with a ton of potential.

 

[CLW]

Laf processes the game just fine, there's a lot of people almost rooting for him to fail in here, he needs more ice time, more speed and endurance, processing the game isn't his issue. Still a young player with a ton of potential.

That's the issue that's rubbing people the wrong way right now. This is a camp where he should have come in breathing fire to prove he is improving his weak areas. Instead he kinda limped in business as usual (for him). That's what set all of this off. Sure it's pre-season and not the end of the world, but optics matter. Cuylle and Othmann have easily had better camps and it's not even close.

 

[TGWL]

Laf processes the game just fine, there's a lot of people almost rooting for him to fail in here, he needs more ice time, more speed and endurance, processing the game isn't his issue. Still a young player with a ton of potential.

So basically he needs to be better in every category, in every area?
We're not rooting against him. We're simply using what we've seen and what we know to gauge where's he's at, and the progression has been terrible. We're not scouts. We don't know if it'll ever fully click. What we do know is that he's been bad. Real bad.

 

[Greschner4]

If he can't make PP2 on his third coach in his fourth preseason, it's time to think about cutting the losses and salvaging the asset before it diminishes even more. There's still time for teams to pay a "he's still young" premium. That premium won't last much longer.

I was really high on him after the PGH and CAR series in 2022, but he hasn't built on them at all and was trash in last year's playoffs. If I had any confidence he could even be a meh regular season guy who turns it on in the playoffs, I'd keep him ... but that's fading fast.

 

[bhamill]

kicked off PP2 for Cuylle

that’s pretty bad.

Cuylle is playing next pre season game, Laf is not. Hence practicing power play units that will actually be lacing up...

This is more message sending.

New coach giving him opportunities and already being disappointed and sending him messages. Kid isn't long for this org

I think it's just a matter of Cuylle playing next game, and Laf NOT.

 

[haohmaru]

Hopefully Lafreniere has no internet at his place and hard (small) caps on his cell data lol.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

So basically he needs to be better in every category, in every area?
We're not rooting against him. We're simply using what we've seen and what we know to gauge where's he's at, and the progression has been terrible. We're not scouts. We don't know if it'll ever fully click. What we do know is that he's been bad. Real bad.

Correct, like most young players.