Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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That's the issue that's rubbing people the wrong way right now. This is a camp where he should have come in breathing fire to prove he is improving his weak areas. Instead he kinda limped in business as usual (for him). That's what set all of this off. Sure it's pre-season and not the end of the world, but optics matter. Cuylle and Othmann have easily had better camps and it's not even close.
Sure that's fine but can we atleast wait until a month into the season? I mean a few games into preseason and people are writing him off as Yakupov. Some players take some time to get going. Iginla, while I'm not trying to compare the two skill wise, never usually hit his stride til some time in November. If people here thought he would go home, train and then show up like McDavid they had way too high an expectation. Even if he has trained like a crazy person this year the change was going to be incremental as time went by this year especially given he was working on a new system, new position and new linemates. Othmann and Cullye are throwing caution to the wind, trying to make the team, most of the vets are trying to get the legs moving and stay healthy. Chytil as an example of why they do that.
 
Laf processes the game just fine, there's a lot of people almost rooting for him to fail in here, he needs more ice time, more speed and endurance, processing the game isn't his issue. Still a young player with a ton of potential.
This.

I see it being more confidence than just a skating/pace issue.

There are plenty of players throughout NHL history that werent the best skaters but were very productive. It sticks out a little with Laf's game because everyone has made a point of it and are laser focused on that weakness in his game. A lot of that and other detriments are covered up when things are going well. There are very few perfect players, if any.

Laf has had some good stretches, he just hasnt strung it out long enough. This offseason/preseason thing has been blown up, just as much as he hasnt taken the horns.

A lot of it is confidence to me. I look at his style of play before juniors and also moments in the NHL (and im not talking about the highlight reel goals) where things have translated, it just hasnt been pure and persistent. Do I think he could shake loose and make good on his draft selection? Maybe.

Certaintly hard to tell at this point but im sure there is another level or two or three to his game we havent seen. This whole thing is unfortunate and it is what it is.

As a fan, for a team that literally never had a 1OA, it sucks. I would be lying if I said it doesnt piss me off.

We can kill Laf all we want but maybe trying to be positive and lifting him up this year is what he needs. I know. Unrealistic in not only this market, but any. The other choice is to bury the kid and drive him out of here in a move that likely doesnt help the future of this team. Then what?

Fire away
 
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Be nice to Laf or he'll show up looking like emo Jimmy Butler
231003120918-03-jimmy-butler-hair.jpg
 
This.

I see it being more confidence than just a skating/pace issue.

There are plenty of players throughout NHL history that werent the best skaters but were very productive. It sticks out a little with Laf's game because everyone has made a point of it and are laser focused on that weakness in his game. A lot of that and other detriments are covered up when things are going well. There are very few perfect players, if any.

Laf has had some good stretches, he just hasnt strung it out long enough. This offseason/preseason thing has been blown up, just as much as he hasnt taken the horns.

A lot of it is confidence to me. I look at his style of play before juniors and also moments in the NHL (and im not talking about the highlight reel goals) where things have translated, it just hasnt been pure and persistent. Do I think he could shake loose and make good on his draft selection? Maybe.

Certaintly hard to tell at this point but im sure there is another level or two or three to his game we havent seen. This whole thing is unfortunate and it is what it is.

As a fan, for a team that literally never had a 1OA, it sucks. I would be lying if I said it doesnt piss me off.

We can kill Laf all we want but maybe trying to be positive and lifting him up this year is what he needs. I know. Unrealistic in not only this market, but any. The other choice is to bury the kid and drive him out of here in a move that likely doesnt help the future of this team. Then what?

Fire away
It does not hurt to support Laf. I still have hope. Hope is free. With that said I also have concerns and view his first 30-40 games under Lav as a possible turning point for his career as a Ranger. That could be a good turning point or a bad turning point.
 
If people here thought he would go home, train and then show up like McDavid they had way too high an expectation.
Wow wow wow.

Let's not gaslight the Lafreniere detractors.

No one expected him to show up and look like McDavid.

What was expected was a summer where Lafreniere put the work in and showed up improved in some noticeable way.

Whether that improvement was his skating, his defense, his backhand passes (since it's been known that he is blocked on the left side) or even just a fire in his belly.

Lafreniere isn't just some poor whipping boy. This has been a horrible camp from him.

Could that change drastically during the season? Sure. Is it likely that Lafreniere magically puts it all together with almost zero signs of the skill, talent, motivation, or work ethic of a first overall pick?

Not in my opinion.
 

Brooks article dropped and there's nothing new here

Is there ever? Like most Brooks articles in recent years, it's one iota of fact (Laf practicing on LW and in a potential third line) and then a whole bunch of speculation, opinion, and posturing where he attempts to deduce what the coach is thinking while conceding that the coach said the iota of fact is not in and of itself meaningful.
 
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Also going back to prior to the actual pick Edge nailed it stating a huge issue for laffy is keeping his feet moving and staying engaged. Edge was 100% right and it still applies 4 years later

Isn't that observation glaringly obvious from simply watching Lafreniere play the game?
 
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This.

I see it being more confidence than just a skating/pace issue.

There are plenty of players throughout NHL history that werent the best skaters but were very productive. It sticks out a little with Laf's game because everyone has made a point of it and are laser focused on that weakness in his game. A lot of that and other detriments are covered up when things are going well. There are very few perfect players, if any.

Laf has had some good stretches, he just hasnt strung it out long enough. This offseason/preseason thing has been blown up, just as much as he hasnt taken the horns.

A lot of it is confidence to me. I look at his style of play before juniors and also moments in the NHL (and im not talking about the highlight reel goals) where things have translated, it just hasnt been pure and persistent. Do I think he could shake loose and make good on his draft selection? Maybe.

Certaintly hard to tell at this point but im sure there is another level or two or three to his game we havent seen. This whole thing is unfortunate and it is what it is.

As a fan, for a team that literally never had a 1OA, it sucks. I would be lying if I said it doesnt piss me off.

We can kill Laf all we want but maybe trying to be positive and lifting him up this year is what he needs. I know. Unrealistic in not only this market, but any. The other choice is to bury the kid and drive him out of here in a move that likely doesnt help the future of this team. Then what?

Fire away
I want to see him succeed too and that's why training camp is so frustrating. Word travels fast when someone has really committed themselves in the offseason. "Wow, so and so got ripped...he's tough in the corners now", "so and so worked on his skating and edgework and you can really see the improvements to speed and agility", "this guy really worked on his shot and now he's ripping pucks from all over the ice."

What did Laf do this offseason? What did he work on? What about the things he can control like his skating and strength, has improved, that will enable him to overcome his limits as a player thus far, which has largely consisted of being an aggressive forechecker and good passer who struggles to retain pucks in traffic or under pressure?

Unless the team is going to send him to Siberia to train with the ghost of Anatoly Tarasov for 6 weeks during the season, these flaws are not going to magically correct themselves in the middle of the year. Once the games start, it's very hard to build up strength or work exclusively on skating technique as so much of the training during a season is about maintaining weight, retaining flexibility, injury avoidance, and stress management to avoid injury.

He's running out of time to reach his potential. On draft day, he was compared favorably to Pastrnak with a weaker shot, and even to Patrick Kane. The early eye test and juniors looked like maybe he could be a tier below that - a Joe Mullen type who played a clean game but created around the net and was good along the walls. Then, a couple years later, it seemed people would be happy to get a Vinny Prospal 50-70 point player who was more of a support piece. Now people are calling him a career third line grinder.

His point totals and ice time have increased, but the improvement has not been marked, and has coincided with the improvement of others on his line which may indicate passenger status.

The organization mishandled the hell out of the beginning of his career, but what's most concerning to me is what Laf didn't do THIS offseason. GG, who was unfair to him at times, was fired. Laf knew that in the spring. He knew the vets were getting shit on in the media, and could've chosen to go back to Quebec (or anywhere for that matter) - to beast out on training and take advanced powerskating lessons to improve his technique, and come back to camp ready to humiliate the vets in scrimmages and intra-squad play, light up some AHL scrubs in exhibitions, and posterize a few defensemen along the way. He didn't. And no amount of playing time is going to correct that. That's my biggest problem with him right now. I don't get the sense he wants to be one of the best players in the league. He acts and plays like someone who's just happy to be in the NHL and be decent, and contribute. He feels bad if he's not contributing, and might practice longer to get out of a funk, but he doesn't take being held off the scoresheet personally and make it his personal two day mission to get back on it next game. He doesn't act like a guy who takes every close game as his solemn responsibility to end, nor like someone who expects to throw the team on his back night after night. And he didn't train like that this offseason.
 
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It does not hurt to support Laf. I still have hope. Hope is free. With that said I also have concerns and view his first 30-40 games under Lav as a possible turning point for his career as a Ranger. That could be a good turning point or a bad turning point.
Maybe this is the core of the difference in view points.

Hope is not "free" in this situation. Hope has an opportunity cost. Lafreniere is still young enough that other GMs could pay a significant price for him in a trade. Next year with no appreciable change to his skill/role/stats? Probably looking at a late 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Hope is fine. But let's not call it free.
 
Maybe this is the core of the difference in view points.

Hope is not "free" in this situation. Hope has an opportunity cost. Lafreniere is still young enough that other GMs could pay a significant price for him in a trade. Next year with no appreciable change to his skill/role/stats? Probably looking at a late 2nd or 3rd round pick.

Hope is fine. But let's not call it free.
I understand your point and I considered that but I'm saying hope is free for us as fans on a messageboard not as a GM of the NYR.
 
I also think we need to think about it from Drury's point of view.

If he trades Laf away and he magically becomes a gamer, that's a bad look for him.

If he keeps Laf, he's still Gorton's pick.

That is a hell of a career gamble for a young GM.
 
I also think we need to think about it from Drury's point of view.

If he trades Laf away and he magically becomes a gamer, that's a bad look for him.

If he keeps Laf, he's still Gorton's pick.

That is a hell of a career gamble for a young GM.
Normally that would be the case but nobody is blaming Gorton for taking the guy that 31 out of 32 scouts had as the #1 pick that year.
 
Normally that would be the case but nobody is blaming Gorton for taking the guy that 31 out of 32 scouts had as the #1 pick that year.
Sure... But more to my point, no one is blaming Drury for that pick.
 
This... This is all that was expected for this summer.

Not McDavid. Not an all star. Just someone motivated.
I hoped all summer that Laf was skating 5 days a week to come in with improved skating and a tremendous motor. I spent a summer doing that myself in high school. I did not expect him to become McDavid but just impress coaches/teammates in camp with some improvements. I have not heard anything about Laf's offseason training so I can't comment on it at all. Has anyone heard anything about what he did this summer?
 
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I want to see him succeed too and that's why training camp is so frustrating. Word travels fast when someone has really committed themselves in the offseason. "Wow, so and so got ripped...he's tough in the corners now", "so and so worked on his skating and edgework and you can really see the improvements to speed and agility", "this guy really worked on his shot and now he's ripping pucks from all over the ice."

What did Laf do this offseason? What did he work on? What about the things he can control like his skating and strength, has improved, that will enable him to overcome his limits as a player thus far, which has largely consisted of being an aggressive forechecker and good passer who struggles to retain pucks in traffic or under pressure?

Unless the team is going to send him to Siberia to train with the ghost of Anatoly Tarasov for 6 weeks during the season, these flaws are not going to magically correct themselves in the middle of the year. Once the games start, it's very hard to build up strength or work exclusively on skating technique as so much of the training during a season is about maintaining weight, retaining flexibility, injury avoidance, and stress management to avoid injury.

He's running out of time to reach his potential. On draft day, he was compared favorably to Pastrnak with a weaker shot, and even to Patrick Kane. The early eye test and juniors looked like maybe he could be a tier below that - a Joe Mullen type who played a clean game but created around the net and was good along the walls. Then, a couple years later, it seemed people would be happy to get a Vinny Prospal 50-70 point player who was more of a support piece. Now people are calling him a career third line grinder.

His point totals and ice time have increased, but the improvement has not been marked, and has coincided with the improvement of others on his line which may indicate passenger status.

The organization mishandled the hell out of the beginning of his career, but what's most concerning to me is what Laf didn't do THIS offseason. GG, who was unfair to him at times, was fired. Laf knew that in the spring. He knew the vets were getting shit on in the media, and could've chosen to go back to Quebec (or anywhere for that matter) and beast out on training and take advanced powerskating lessons to improve his technique. He didn't. And no amount of playing time is going to correct that. That's my biggest problem with him right now. I don't get the sense he wants to be one of the best players in the league. He acts and plays like someone who's just happy to be in the NHL and be decent, and contribute. He doesn't act like a guy who takes every close game personally and expects to throw the team on his back night after night. And he didn't train like that this offseason.

French Fried.

Looks like it is becoming the imperfect storm. Skills flatlined.

His confidence appears shot to shit. Social media on private, last interview with our reporters seemed uninspired and without desire for redemption.

It's like he aspires to be Jimmy Vesey.
 
What you see is what you get from laf. If he becomes a meaningful player it won’t be in NY.

let’s start laf a 1st and whoever else for petterson.
 
Wow wow wow.

Let's not gaslight the Lafreniere detractors.

No one expected him to show up and look like McDavid.

What was expected was a summer where Lafreniere put the work in and showed up improved in some noticeable way.

Whether that improvement was his skating, his defense, his backhand passes (since it's been known that he is blocked on the left side) or even just a fire in his belly.

Lafreniere isn't just some poor whipping boy. This has been a horrible camp from him.

Could that change drastically during the season? Sure. Is it likely that Lafreniere magically puts it all together with almost zero signs of the skill, talent, motivation, or work ethic of a first overall pick?

Not in my opinion.

Well atleast you gave him a whopping half a training camp before you disposed of him. We should probably get rid of Kreider, Zib, Fox, Miller, Panarin and Trochek too cus none of them have looked good so far either ands thats the nature of preseason for players with roster spots.

This board is funny. I thought (according to some) our coaches hated him and played him with Chytil and KK to ruin him? Now he has to play with them? 😊

Keep up...whatever is currently being done is not right, doesn't matter what it is really and we should trade anyone who doesn't live up to the boards expectations. Thankfully the board doesnt run the team.
 
Realistically, if a trade were to happen, what could we get from Montreal?

Half-a-bowl of 2 day old poutine, a used puck from a Laval Rockets game, and a tape of Michel Terrien singing Comment Ca Va?
Well he is around a 20-20 guy at 22 so goal should be a 1st and a prospect if forced to make a trade. Maybe send back a 3rd.
 
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