Player Discussion Alexis Lafreniere

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If he's moved, it will be in the offseason imo.

Laffy is content here. He likes the guys and is close with many of them. He's 21, making millions and lives in NYC. He will not request a trade IMO.

I think that's part of the problem... he's more infatuated in the lifestyle than being a professional hockey player.
 
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If he's moved, it will be in the offseason imo.

Laffy is content here. He likes the guys and is close with many of them. He's 21, making millions and lives in NYC. He will not request a trade IMO.

I think that's part of the problem... he's more infatuated in the lifestyle than being a professional hockey player.
What do we have to base this on?

Serious question...
 
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Laf had 39 points last year as a 21 year old in the league.
He had 15m of icetime and 1:23m pp time.

Debrincat had 66 points.
He had 19m of icetime and 4m of premium pp time.

Debrincat had 4m more icetime and almost 3m more pp time per game.

With that extra icetime I don't see why laf couldn't get at least reasonably close to debrincats stats. Especially as he continues to develop.

Think people are overblowing this bust stuff. I think it is reasonable to believe Laf becomes a fairly consistent 55-60 point player.
The ice time argument I think is missing the point with how bad he looks in any of the ice time he gets. Kakko you have a point, Laf looks awful in every aspect of the game right now. 60 minutes couldn’t help him on the quality of his play
 

I think this is where he fits best on our current powerplay. I don't like him on the wall. There's less decision making here and it's shoot the puck when the opportunity presents itself. He's got great hand-eye coordination and can find loose pucks.
 
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I think this is where he fits best on our current powerplay. I don't like him on the wall. There's less decision making here and it's shoot the puck when the opportunity presents itself. He's got great hand-eye coordination and can find loose pucks.

That kind of goal is Laf's future, he has to make those a habit. We've joked a fair bit about him scoring from <1 foot out but he does have the timing and coordination to clean up loose pucks around the goal.
 
Has he? Or has his linemates improved each season and dragged his numbers up?

Kakko? Huge improvements in physical abilities and confidence.
Chytil? The same.

Laf? He got some more points?
Sure, it’s not the only metric, but it is one. It’s sure a heck of a lot easier to quantify points than it is something like “confidence.”
 
He's statistically the worst 1st overall pick in 20 years showing very little signs of progression.

I would think he has a lot to prove to himself and the fan base. But that's the problem. He's just not good. No doubt he's trying and Saturday's game was the first time I actually saw visible signs of frustration from him instead of that weird smile.

Good. I want him pissed off. He should be watching Chris Kreider tape from the last two seasons four hours a day after practice. That's his ticket to being a 1st line player in this league one day. I'm sure Chris would love to work with him on his board play, cycling, and hands in tight. He's just not going to be a dangler, playmaker, or sniper at this level successfully.
Ridiculously dumb statement and just the kind of overreacting we do around here all the time:

Nail Yakupov
Nugent-Hopkins was nothing special for 1 years
Nico had a really rough first 4 years

He is also way more valuable than a Tatar or a Grabner who have some special skills that make them elite in one part of the game. Lafreniere has close to elite playmaking, forechecking, and IQ abilities already, despite only going into his 21 year old season. I am NOT arguing that he will get further than being a 3rd line 40 - 50 point guy, but there is a ton to believe that if he plays consistently, he could be way more. Laf goes incredibly hot and cold right now and the hot parts look like a top tier kid who will easily be a top six players, but the cold parts look like somebody we should cut ties with. The balance looks like the 40 - 50 point 3rd line player. This was Chris Kreider for years, he needs to even this out and we will have a gem of a second line winger especially once he begins getting PP time.
 
Honestly, I'm not sure he gets a first round pick at this point. I'm with @bobbop - if he gets a slow start then I think he's out of here at his own request.
I agree this is the most likely pathway forward if he's horrendous again. But if he's even slightly "good" and his output is at least on pace compared to last year, why would Laf want to start over again with a different organization? As much as he's lacked development here, there are far worse places to play professional hockey than New York City. If he was even a halfway decent first overall in New York City he would be sitting on a massive potential to earn way more outside of the rink through how much exposure he gets just from pkaying in NYC.

Now if you are suggesting he's playing terribly to force the Rangers hand then that's an angle I had not thought about.
 
Ridiculously dumb statement and just the kind of overreacting we do around here all the time:

Lafreniere has close to elite playmaking, forechecking, and IQ abilities already, despite only going into his 21 year old season.

The irony that these two statements were posted together in the same post trying to make a fellow poster look bad is not lost on me.

Elite playmaking? He has 44 career assists-- thats career, not season.
Forechecking?- I don't even know how you could equate that but Othmann in one pre-season game has shown a better ability to create turnovers than Laf has shown in years.
IQ abilities?- Is part of his brilliant hockey IQ to consistently take portions of games off? Take circular routes to pucks?

I'm sorry but nothing about Laf's game is elite, close to elite or even a level below elite. As has been shown statistically time and time again on here- he is essentially exactly NHL average for his position. That's ok but lets not try and sell anyone that he is " close to elite."
 
I agree this is the most likely pathway forward if he's horrendous again. But if he's even slightly "good" and his output is at least on pace compared to last year, why would Laf want to start over again with a different organization? As much as he's lacked development here, there are far worse places to play professional hockey than New York City. If he was even a halfway decent first overall in New York City he would be sitting on a massive potential to earn way more outside of the rink through how much exposure he gets just from pkaying in NYC.

Now if you are suggesting he's playing terribly to force the Rangers hand then that's an angle I had not thought about.

I think it's less about a desirable place to play and more about a fresh start with lower expectations elsewhere. I mean, if he goes to Montreal it's likely to be even WORSE but some left coast team would be a lot better for him in between the ears. I hope he figures that part of it out. HERE.
 
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Its fine to say that Laf may be a late bloomer. Of course that could be the case, he's only 22 next week. We've seen plenty of high draft picks hit their stride a little later than usual.

But to say he is elite or close to elite in any regard just isn't fact. We haven't seen anything from him consistently enough to warrant that, not to mention we really havent seen many noticeable steps in his development.

I think its fair to be disappointed and inpatient at this point. Fans have a right to be pissed.

I also think its fair to say he isnt what he what ultimately be at this point either. Fans have a right to be patient and hopeful.
 
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An upgrade over Harpur would be nice. After Miller, Gustaffsson, Lindgren (1 year left for Lindgren) not much depth if 2 are hurt at the same time.Zac Jones and then guys who are not ready and or not that good. I’d love Othmann’s former teammate Owen Beck. Doubt he is available but I’d be interested if I’m Chris Drury. Rangers can use more young center depth.
I don't know how highly management thinks of Beck.

We're not flush with centers. After Dach and Suzuki we got a fragile vet in Monahan, a project in Newhook and a 4th liner in Evans. Beck may be our 3C in a year from now.

Most likely at least an upgrade to Evans.

Maybe a new team benefits Laf, maybe not. If he's not motivated or willing to improve his game, he's not worth a trade nor is he valuable to the Rangers as a 4th liner.

As for likely trades, we are flush with young drfensive players. We got players like Harris who may be equal value to Laf. Do the Rangers need left defense?
 
I think it's less about a desirable place to play and more about a fresh start with lower expectations elsewhere. I mean, if he goes to Montreal it's likely to be even WORSE but some left coast team would be a lot better for him in between the ears. I hope he figures that part of it out. HERE.
Habs are not the place Laf goes to find his game. The pressure will be there to step up...or get roasted. Even Quebecois had their fill with players like Drouin.
 
If he's moved, it will be in the offseason imo.

Laffy is content here. He likes the guys and is close with many of them. He's 21, making millions and lives in NYC. He will not request a trade IMO.

I think that's part of the problem... he's more infatuated in the lifestyle than being a professional hockey player.
I've been one of the organization's biggest detractors regarding how they've handled Laf, and even I'm extremely disappointed with what I've seen from Laf thus far as it reflects on his offseason.

Now that it's been a few years, I get the sense that he's been training and acting like his goal was to become an NHL player, not like he's been training and acting like his goal was to become one of the best players in the world.

Team definitely should've handled him differently at the outset, but he just had an offseason where he knew the coach that wasn't always fair to him was fired and a new coach was coming in who did things differently, and who favored the kind of game he's typically been hyped for. For him to come in pedestrian is very disappointing.

He has above average playmaking, above average ability to complete passes in traffic, and above average forechecking skills. For a potential top 6 player, his shot is average, his skating is below average, his edgework is below average, and his one or two signature moves aside, his stickhandling/hands are just average. I was really hoping to see him come back a lot stronger, faster, or both this year, or with significant improvements to his skating or shooting technique. It's quite disappointing, but the early returns make it seem like he's just happy to be an NHL player and be one of the guys, not like he wants to be THE guy.

That's really not what you want out of a #1 pick.
 
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Just for the record...

I don't know about Newhook but Dach is very highly thought of by management and fans. They wouldn't trade him for Dubois, they certainly wont trade him for Laf. Then there is the issue, we don't have center depth. Losing Dach would be a disaster.
 
Just for the record...

I don't know about Newhook but Dach is very highly thought of by management and fans. They wouldn't trade him for Dubois, they certainly wont trade him for Laf. Then there is the issue, we don't have center depth. Losing Dach would be a disaster.
Look... there is zero chance that Gorton trades for Lafreniere. That would be ridiculous.

He would essentially be betting his job on Lafreniere. He wont do that.
 
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Here is an alternative perspective:

Laf is at least a 50% chance to bust now. I don’t think anyone would argue that. It’s honestly probably higher. It’s like 80-90% that even if he doesn’t “bust” he’s a large disappointment from his draft day prestige.

He is a left wing being asked to play his off wing because we can’t even find a way to get this guy going or get him into a good place in the lineup. He clearly isn’t good enough to displace either of the LW ahead of him. We also have Otthman and Cuylle who I believe both favor LW. It’s definitely our greatest organizational depth. On RW… well, we’re trying Laf, so we’ve got openings. At C if anyone at the NHL level is injured either Goodrow is sliding back to C or we’re calling up Brodzinski/Leschysysnnsysn and that’s not exactly deep. At D, if anyone is hurt Harpur and Jones are the only NHLish D options. LW is flush - Panarin, Kreider, Laf, Otthman, Goodrow, Cuylle, etc.

So what if we simply looked at it as, we can keep smashing a square peg in a round hole, hoping Laf can become a RW or otherwise adapt or… we can move Laf for a relatively high caliber, but out of favor or needing a change player who is actually comfortable on the right side. Or a C prospect with upside. Or a LD to replace Gustafsson who has long term potential?

Someone under 23. Sure, they’re not likely to have been a top 5 pick, but someone young with upside who fills a need. The next Dach to be dealt. Someone like Broberg or Greig? Edmonton puts Laf with McDavid in the ultimate “is he a bust or not” test and Broberg and Schneider become a long term pairing. Something like that. Does that not make sense to some extent?

The guy is struggling mightily to find his NHL game and is playing our deepest position. Asking him to switch has never been successful so far. Due to his draft pedigree he does still have residual value. Can we not parlay that into something that genuinely fits and helps the team? A RW or LD that’s ready today but also has upside to grow with this core? Is that a totally wild suggestion?
 
If he's moved, it will be in the offseason imo.

Laffy is content here. He likes the guys and is close with many of them. He's 21, making millions and lives in NYC. He will not request a trade IMO.

I think that's part of the problem... he's more infatuated in the lifestyle than being a professional hockey player.
This will not go over well but I can't blame a young player for that. If I was 21 years old making millions a year I probably would not be 100% in to my job as well. Girls, fun, etc would probably be strong distractions from my job. I know hockey is a game we love but if its 4-5 days a week becomes a job for many. Even in college I did not enjoy practices.
 
This will not go over well but I can't blame a young player for that. If I was 21 years old making millions a year I probably would not be 100% in to my job as well. Girls, fun, etc would probably be strong distractions from my job. I know hockey is a game we love but if its 4-5 days a week becomes a job for many. Even in college I did not enjoy practices.

This is a fair point that won’t be popular. You do see it happen. I think it was Peter Mueller who was really promising and just wasn’t into the lifestyle of a hockey player. Alexandre Daigle. There’s examples.


When I was in college I was a Callahan/Grabner type. I played good, competitive hockey with 4+ practices, gym time with trainers, travel everywhere from Buffalo to Arizona, but at that level, I was a third line forechecking pest who PKed and could spring a breakaway or two almost every game. That’s because skating was my only actually strong skill, but I was really fit, had great endurance, could eat up minutes to close out games, blocking shots or taking hits to clear the puck never seemed to phase me the way it took the wind out of others’ sails. I was a gym/fitness freak who LOVED hockey. If ice time was free, I would spend literally half of my waking hours just shooting on the empty net and handling the puck and skating. Which I did in the winter when the pond on our property froze. There were guys on my team however, that could do things with the puck so effortlessly and smoothly that I envied them SOOOOO badly. But they didn’t love hockey like I did. I’d be on the pond out front of “the hockey house” (eight of us rented this GIANT run down like mansion/estate in college) and I’d be like “hey, you guys wanna get a little pickup you going?” and they would be like “nah, we’re going to the bar to watch the Barcelona/Madrid match”. Which meant this soccer game is going to be popular and all the popular dudes from the other teams and slutty hot girls will be there. And I just wanted to skate. Later on, in the military, my first question was always “wait… are the slutty hot girls going to be there?” But that’s a different story.

The point is, Crosby, Kreider, McDavid, Bedard, Matthews, etc. etc. etc. are all guys you have to fight to get off of the ice. They want to live there. They just love it. It’s not a wonder Crosby and McDavid are bad interviews - they never went where the hot slutty girls were, they went where the ice was.

If you’re not born that way and hockey isn’t more alluring than making even just $750k per year to play it, than you’re more likely going to end up being less than elite. Like me? I’d play hockey 7 days per week, travel and be away from my family, block shots (if I was even capable), deal with injuries, etc. for $75k per year. Because that’s about what I make and I hate my job. I’d be over the moon to replace my job with playing hockey. Laf doesn’t have a wife or children. He doesn’t have years of debt and expenses. He’s 21 making 2M per year. He’s already earned more than anyone posting here will likely ever earn in their life, with his rookie signing bonuses, etc. If he isn’t flat out obsessed with hockey and being the best, what more even is there for him? I’m thinking Alex Semin, Nik Zherdev, Alex Daigle, etc. enjoyed hockey, but they didn’t enjoy the weight room. They didn’t enjoy running suicides in practice. They didn’t enjoy 6am team meetings when they’d been up til 2am with a model, or playing Fortnite. And I’m guessing Crosby, MacKinnon, etc. were going home and eating grilled chicken breast, avoiding women, shooting pucks for fun, watching tape, playing NHL rather than CoD or Fortnite.

In the time since I began typing the post and now I’ve finished two very strong old fashioneds and a beer and I forgot what my point was. Cheers. I love all of you, agree or disagree. I f***ing wish Laf looked like a 1OA. He really doesn’t. It’s just frustrating is what it is.
 
If you're going to use the argument that Lafreniere is blocked at LW, then the front office should have just traded the pick and taken Byfield or Stutzle. At some point it needs to be on the player to grab the brass ring and earn the time over the two incumbents, or, GASP, try Kreider or Panarin at RW.
 
Laf was with Pageau up to the Rangers blue line. Pageau actually slows down to avoid going offsides. That's when Laf stops. I acknowledged this. Pageau is in the clear now. But Lindgren and Laf didn't communicate as to who would take who. Lindgren could have switched man on man to go get Pageau. I acknowledge Laf slowing down created the situation. Lindgren, I feel, should have barked orders but he drifts too in no man's land and leaves the gap open.
come on, buddy. Get with the program: if there’s miscommunication or confusion and a breakdown in coverage by multiple players, and Laf is on the ice, it is LAF’s fault and ONLY Laf’s fault. Hahahaha.
 
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