Confirmed with Link: Alexis Lafreniere Signs Extension [7Y/7.45M AAV]

[TopShelfSnipes]

Yeah but Trocheck is by all accounts the least productive player on PP1. I'm not saying he's bad at it, but I do wonder how much the PP is affected if he's taken off.

He has the fewest goals on the PP of anyone on the first unit other than Fox (who is the assist-generator). He has the fewest assists on the PP of anyone on the first unit other than Kreider (who is the tip-in scorer).

Take away his PP production and Laf's PP production and their EV production is very similar.

And with the quality of passing we've been seeing from Laf lately - just how he's been making some real eye-opening passes - do you swap it out for a bit just to see?

I realize underlying metrics have said Laf sucks on the PP and I realize you don't want PP1 to stop being elite, but.....

1) You can switch back if it has a big negative effect, and
2) There IS a benefit to a player like Lafreniere becoming effective as a PP performer besides just stat padding, and for that he needs a shot.

I've been one of the biggest proponents of Laf to PP1, but the issue with this is a couple of things.

First, Trocheck for Laf is not a 1:1 swap. Laf is not going to go in the bumper and using him there is a waste. The only places it would ever make sense to play Laf are:
-In the Kreider spot, which is not going to happen, because Kreider is his generation's John LeClair in front of the net.
-At the RW half wall, where no one currently plays. If they do this, Panarin's space to rover from the right point to the RW half wall would reduce, however, so to counteract this, they'd have to move Panarin to the left side in the Zibanejad spot, which puts Mika in the bumper. If they ever swap Laf for Trocheck, this is the only move that makes sense. To keep a true 1-3-1, Laf would basically have to play the mirror image of the Zibanejad role on the right side, and Panarin would have to play the existing Zibanejad role (which he absolutely can do). In its final form, this is probably their best powerplay, but only once Laf develops an elite one timer which he doesn't have yet. This is basically aiming for Kucherov/Stamkos at the circles when Tampa's PP was prime.
-At the left point, which wouldn't make sense, because it would put Zibanejad in the bumper and keep Panarin in his usual spot, but the (threat of the) RH one timer goes away from the left side, which allows the PK to cheat towards Panarin and Kreider more, plus which also doesn't give Laf a single one-time option to distribute to.

Zib sucked on faceoffs last year relative to two seasons ago, and would have to take draws. This year's he's been better, but he's still inconsistent from game to game. I still think Zib should be consistently around 52% (especially on an improved faceoff team), but he's generally been 50-51% this year after his hot start on draws, and when he has a bad game he tends to REALLY have a bad game which is why his numbers aren't higher, and why Kreider is occasionally taking left side draws when the Filip Chytil Faceoff version of Mika shows up.

I do agree that he needs more PP time though. Given the way last night's game went, there was no reason he shouldn't have been thrown out there either with selected parts of PP1, or with the whole PP2 on the last regulation powerplay up 4-1. These guys are vets and have bought in, and a simple explanation that this kid getting experience and PP2 being a viable threat in the playoffs should be more than enough to overcome any butthurt that might be present.

 

[Leonardo87]

With the way Laf has looked since the new thread, may need to start a new Kakko thread.

 

[GAGLine]

Yeah but Trocheck is by all accounts the least productive player on PP1. I'm not saying he's bad at it, but I do wonder how much the PP is affected if he's taken off.

Trocheck plays the bumper. Most of our PP offense comes from cross seam passes and deflections. I think that would be the least productive spot on the PP no matter who is there.

A skilled player could easily go a stretch of 4 or 5 games without a point with no top PP time. If you are on a very successful unit like Trocheck is, yes, you are part of it, but you could be gifted goals and assists just by being on the ice. That helps breaks droughts and helps the pysche carrying into the 5 on 5 play. There is no way to measure this of course, but it definitely counts for "production momentum" imo

This exactly. It's why I want to see Kakko on the PK. It gives him something to feel good about, to feel like he's contributing, even if he isn't scoring.

 

[SA16]

Trocheck should not come off the PP. We've already been over the structure. The team is trying to win games not to artificially boost certain players point totals. How will Laf be making these great high quality passes on the PP from the bumper position? That is not a role where you have much time and space to make plays. The PP is running 30.4% for the year and 31.1% the last month and we still can't stop with people trying to blow up the unit to get their favorite players more points.

And that's not even considering that Trocheck is their main faceoff guy on PP1. He's taken 121 and won 80 of them. Zibanejad has taken 21. You take him off and that 66% drops now you have more PPs that start with the defensive team clearing the zone right away and wasting 30 seconds. Even if Zibanejad and Trocheck would both win 66% it's an advantage to have both for when the first guy is tossed which is not uncommon.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I actually think that Laf will have chances on PP2 as it's currently capable of being configured, and I really just want to see them get a little more ice time (closer to :50 on average, for each PP) and get more starts late in nonclose games.

Laf cross seam to Othmann will be the new Panarin Zibanejad royal road. Cuylle netfront. Gus at the point (though he's got to be better than he's been the past month). The biggest problem is the guy in the bumper, and for now that has to remain Wheeler or Brodz as they're the remaining players on the team that can perform decently on faceoffs and not be a complete offensive black hole (read: not be Bonino, Pitlick, or Goodrow). I suppose you could throw Vesey in that spot if changing on the fly, but he'd need to immediately come off for Wheeler or Brodz the second there's a whistle, and it wouldn't make much sense to practice as a unit like that, especially where the bumper's handedness is kind of a big deal in what types of structured plays you look for initially when reading the PK.

But (especially as long as Othmann is up), that unit should get a little more ice time than it's getting, and Laf should be playing the Panarin role mirrored on it.

 

[duhmetreE]

He needs to work on his shot. If he can elevate it, I see a Draisaitl type. I mentioned that before, as to what I can see his game be.

Style wise not being the same hunch back. Laffy has played with A LOT more pace this season. His shot and terrible luck is holding back production IMO

 

[DanielBrassard]

Trocheck should not come off the PP. We've already been over the structure. The team is trying to win games not to artificially boost certain players point totals. How will Laf be making these great high quality passes on the PP from the bumper position? That is not a role where you have much time and space to make plays. The PP is running 30.4% for the year and 31.1% the last month and we still can't stop with people trying to blow up the unit to get their favorite players more points.

And that's not even considering that Trocheck is their main faceoff guy on PP1. He's taken 121 and won 80 of them. Zibanejad has taken 21. You take him off and that 66% drops now you have more PPs that start with the defensive team clearing the zone right away and wasting 30 seconds. Even if Zibanejad and Trocheck would both win 66% it's an advantage to have both for when the first guy is tossed which is not uncommon.

That’s exactly what it is. @mas0764 stop worrying so much about ‘s point totals its really not that important.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

He needs to work on his shot. If he can elevate it, I see a Draisaitl type. I mentioned that before, as to what I can see his game be.

Style wise not being the same hunch back. Laffy has played with A LOT more pace this season. His shot and terrible luck is holding back production IMO

I dont really see the comparison to Draisaitl stylistic wise either - but I do agree he needs to work on his shot. He could have 4-6 more goals this season, maybe more (including that play last night) if he was a better finisher.

Hes not a terrible shooter, but to separate himself as a true threat/gamebreaker that would make a big difference. He would be around 15-15 30 right now. The good shot not only leads to goals but rebounds as well

Agree about the pace. Its night and day. He is really fun to watch out there on his resets and hes almost effortlessly gliding with the puck on a string. Its really improved

 

[duhmetreE]

I dont really see the comparison to Draisaitl stylistic wise either - but I do agree he needs to work on his shot. He could have 4-6 more goals this season, maybe more (including that play last night) if he was a better finisher.

Hes not a terrible shooter, but to separate himself as a true threat/gamebreaker that would make a big difference. He would be around 15-15 30 right now. The good shot not only leads to goals but rebounds as well

Agree about the pace. Its night and day. He is really fun to watch out there on his resets and hes almost effortlessly gliding with the puck on a string. Its really improved

They're high IQ, great vision playmakers. Both can play a physical game. Excel in tight quarters. Laffy playing with more pace. If he elevates his finishing somewhere close to a Draisaitl, see a similar 'type'.

That's a major IF... but the improvement we've seen in his pace compared to previous seasons, is much harder to do than improve a shot imo. So, I wont doubt him. Funny enough, Drai took his 'goal scoring'/shot to the next level in his age 23 season.. hovering around mid-high teens in EV goals. Then exploded to 30.

 

[Rangers in 7]

They're high IQ, great vision playmakers. Both can play a physical game. Excel in tight quarters. Laffy playing with more pace. If he elevates his finishing somewhere close to a Draisaitl, see a similar 'type'.

That's a major IF... but the improvement we've seen in his pace compared to previous seasons, is much harder to do than improve a shot imo. So, I wont doubt him. Funny enough, Drai took his 'goal scoring'/shot to the next level in his age 23 season.. hovering around mid-high teens in EV goals. Then exploded to 30.

i see where you are going with this, butttttt my comp to a more physical huberdeau still holds true. ive been saying this is who he ends up being for like 3 years now

hes an elite passer and someone who could put up 30 goals one day

btw im talking about the florida huberdeau, not whatever hes become in calgary

 

[n8]

I like how he's trending

S1 - 21 pts
S2 - 31 pts
S3 - 39 pts
S4 - 50 pts
S5 - 59 pts
S6 - 61 pts
S7 - 71 pts
S8 - 84 pts
.
.
.
S14 - 167 pts

 

[Levitate]

I think he tends to get his shot off decently and with some zip on it but accuracy isn't quite there

good backhander though

 

[Synergy27]

I’m here for my crow. Who wants to serve it to me?

That play last night where he banked it to himself on the boards and then made that crazy backhand pass to Bread? That’s the kind of 1OA shit I’ve been dying to see from him. Glad to see he is finding his swagger.

 

[Profet]

View attachment 796513

I’m here for my crow. Who wants to serve it to me?

That play last night where he banked it to himself on the boards and then made that crazy backhand pass to Bread? That’s the kind of 1OA shit I’ve been dying to see from him. Glad to see he is finding his swagger.

Set a plate for me as well...

 

[LORDE]

View attachment 796513

I’m here for my crow. Who wants to serve it to me?

That play last night where he banked it to himself on the boards and then made that crazy backhand pass to Bread? That’s the kind of 1OA shit I’ve been dying to see from him. Glad to see he is finding his swagger.

Right there with you

All along I wanted to see him "TRY" some shit, even if he wasn't pulling it off.

Now he's trying shit AND pulling it off.

Crazy improvement. I also agree with @duhmetreE that he needs to get his shot closer to deadly & then we're really cooking with napalm.

 

[huerter]

If you want Laf on PP1 you don't understand PP1.

 

[QJL]

You cannot break up this power play. If Panarin, Zibanejad, or Kreider come off the power play with injury, Laf takes the spot. That will likely happen at some point in the next 50 games.

 

[will1066]

FYI, I've asked my attorney to drop the class action against the QMJHL.

 

[JimmyG89]

He will make his way to PP1 eventually, just not now. The one thing I would not mind is if they did try it if the PP is stale in a game. It hasn't really happened this season to get to that point.

My hope was that PP2 would be much better because of Gustafsson, the progression of Kakko, Lafreniere, and Chytil, and a veteran like Wheeler that has had success on an elite PP unit in Winnipeg. Unfortunately Fox got hurt, so they lost Gus, then Chytil and Kakko go down, and Wheeler has been underwhelming. So now PP2 is just Lafreniere and Gus. Maybe the resolution is Panarin for the full 2 minutes.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I’m perhaps the biggest proponent of going out of the way to put the kids in a position to succeed, sometimes even if it’s to our detriment.

I’m not sure PP1 is the place to do it though. We have something really really good going there and there’s way too much downside messing with that.

If Laf was having massive confidence issues it might be a good move to try it temporarily, but whatever the coaching staff are doing this season is working because he’s looked great and is improving. They’ve kept him stapled to line 1, even during cold stretches, and it has paid dividends.

I also think trying to use stats to justify whether or not Laf is good on the powerplay is ridiculous though. The PP2 is, at best, a way to kill time. They get 30 seconds on the back end of the PP and it starts in their own zone. It’s an abomination. Sure, Laf is partially responsible for that, but it’s a five man unit. People like Kakko, pre-injury, we’re losing the puck far more often.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

I’m perhaps the biggest proponent in going out of the way to put the kids in a position to succeed, sometimes even if it’s to our detriment.

I’m not sure PP1 is the place to do it though. We have something really really good going there and there’s way too much downside messing with that.

If Laf was having massive confidence issues it might be a good move to try it temporarily, but whatever the coaching staff are doing this season is working because he’s looked great and is improving. They’ve kept him stapled to line 1, even during cold stretches, and it has paid dividends.

I also think trying to use stats to justify whether or not Laf is good on the powerplay is ridiculous though. The PP2 is, at best, a way to kill time. They get 30 seconds on the back end of the PP and it starts in their own zone. It’s an abomination. Sure, Laf is partially responsible for that, but it’s a five man unit. People like Kakko, pre-injury, we’re losing the puck far more often.

My biggest issue with Kakko on the PP is that he does nothing with the puck. It's exactly the same thing as his even strength game. Turn your back to the net and just go back and forth along the wall till you get tired, then moved the puck along the perimeter to the next guy.

That literally creates nothing, and on a PP it actively helps the PK because it wastes time. You don't need to win a drawn out one-on-one battle on the PP. You need to focus on moving the puck quickly to create confusion and oddman situations in specific areas of the ice, and generating shots...not holding onto the puck so long that the other team is even allowed to contend for it (or, really, for that matter, allowed to do anything other than try to stay in the passing lanes).

However, as long as Othmann's up, throw Cuylle in front of the net, leave Laf at the left side in the mirrored Panarin role, and put Othmann on the right side in a shooting position. That unit should actually be capable of producing with those personnel.

Who cares who's in the bumper as long as they can win a faceoff and aren't named Bonino or Goodrow.

 

[JCProdigy]

FYI, I've asked my attorney to drop the class action against the QMJHL.

Just having them re-file against SM-liiga?!?!?

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

That play last night where he banked it to himself on the boards and then made that crazy backhand pass to Bread? That’s the kind of 1OA shit I’ve been dying to see from him. Glad to see he is finding his swagger.

He did it a couple times, the second time was even better as he made a spinning pass from the corner to Trocheck for a great look. Also he dangled the shit out of Bedard behind the net and then set up Panarin in the slot . I clipped most of his puck touches from the game, he was really great last night

 

[Synergy27]

He did it a couple times, the second time was even better as he made a spinning pass from the corner to Trocheck for a great look. Also he dangled the shit out of Bedard behind the net and then set up Panarin in the slot . I clipped most of his puck touches from the game, he was really great last night

He definitely should have had a tap in goal from Fox on that play where Adam decided to shoot it in the first too. Looked like he was playing freely and dominating. I loved every second of it.

 

[Harbour Dog]

He did it a couple times, the second time was even better as he made a spinning pass from the corner to Trocheck for a great look. Also he dangled the shit out of Bedard behind the net and then set up Panarin in the slot . I clipped most of his puck touches from the game, he was really great last night

Awesome, Man. Thanks for doing this.