Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[charliemurphy]

I understand the 3rd line minutes for the rest of the season but both Laf and Kakko need to get top 2 line minutes next season. Otherwise, what are they doing with these two?

 

[RickChartraw]

this off season, has to work on his skating and playing his off wing if he wants to crack the top 6.

 

[effen]

3 of those high picks (Lafreniere, Kakko & Andersson) biggest knock against them is their skating. I think that’s the main reason they’ve all sucked. Chytil was a much later pick than those 3, and he has outplayed & outproduced many players picked before him. He likely goes higher than he was selected in a redraft. And Chytil is the great skater. Then Kravtsov is a great skater as well and looked much better than Laf or Kakko in the NHL, and has outproduced Kaprizov & Kuznetsov in the playoffs at the same age, just 0.05PPG shy of a certain guy by the name of Artemi Panarin.

Don’t you think their skating is a problem? All these other young kids around the league that are lighting it up or showing flashes have that speed. Laf & Kakko skate in quicksand, so did Andersson.

Laf's good stretch came when he constantly moved his feet. Kakko's most impressive eye test moments have been in backchecking (has to skate to get there!) and doing Jagr wall stuff (also skating!).

They don't move their feet constantly because their processing is weak, which makes them slow down more to process, and by then the puck is gone.

They'll get better with NHL reps and in particular when they both have man strength in their legs as their games seem pretty predicated in taking and shrugging off hits.

The Rangers are playing a VERY long game with both of them.

Chytil "looks" better because he's decisively skating, but a lot of times its skating to nowhere really, or skating to a place where he promptly gets gobbled up because he doesn't have upper body strength.

 

[effen]

By the way, here's something I've noticed about Chris Kreider, the crown jewel of forward development *checks notes* in franchise history.

His first full season, he was playing 15:44 per game. He never went below that.

Lafreniere would sell his loved ones to play 15:44.

Being ultra fast, extremely strong, and not having a habit of flying the zone papers over a lot of early deficiencies and lets you learn on the job. He didn't really know how to play until like 3 years ago.

 

[ReddestRum]

By the way, here's something I've noticed about Chris Kreider, the crown jewel of forward development *checks notes* in franchise history.

His first full season, he was playing 15:44 per game. He never went below that.

Lafreniere would sell his loved ones to play 15:44.

It's been said before... there are other players playing less minutes than Laf in the league and making MUCH more of an impact for their team.

Hold on though. I already know what you're going to say because you've said it a shit load of times already. Yes, he scored 7 points in 6 games. Our #1 pick scored 7 in 6, and this somehow should vault him into getting even more ice time, top PP minutes, etc.

While you saw his best streak of his career, and I did as well, the fact of the matter is that Laf's game is so f***ing inconsistent that you can't give him more responsibility and be confident that he'll perform. It's a gamble. A big one since there is a top 6 levels above his play right now. The guy goes stretches without points, but still manages to make the minus column. Still manages to make the PIM column. Yet somehow all some of you want do is reward him for being the NBA equivalent of a 10th man.

Nah. There are plenty of games where he's played close to 15 minutes and still manages to be invisible.

 

[Machinehead]

It's been said before... there are other players playing less minutes than Laf in the league and making MUCH more of an impact for their team.

Hold on though. I already know what you're going to say because you've said it a shit load of times already. Yes, he scored 7 points in 6 games. Our #1 pick scored 7 in 6, and this somehow should vault him into getting even more ice time, top PP minutes, etc.

While you saw his best streak of his career, and I did as well, the fact of the matter is that Laf's game is so f***ing inconsistent that you can't give him more responsibility and be confident that he'll perform. It's a gamble. A big one since there is a top 6 levels above his play right now. The guy goes stretches without points, but still manages to make the minus column. Still manages to make the PIM column. Yet somehow all some of you want do is reward him for being the NBA equivalent of a 10th man.

Nah. There are plenty of games where he's played close to 15 minutes and still manages to be invisible.

Like Seth Jarvis who you just neglected to tell me was playing with Aho and Svechnikov?

 

[effen]

Hischier put up 52pts his rookie year & paced for 56 in his D+2. We could only hope he ends up the winger version of Hischier, it’s not looking likely.

Guys don't progress linearly or come out equally as good. Hischier also played with the MVP of the league that year.

 

[ReddestRum]

Like Seth Jarvis who you just neglected to tell me was playing with Aho and Svechnikov?

Jarvis beat our defense himself last night for his goal and all it took was one rudimentary pass to him from the blue line and then Jarvis took over. Lol, I swear, I feel this must be the only team on these boards where the fans blame 101 factors on everything else rather than the game of the player in question.

 

[Machinehead]

Jarvis beat our defense himself last night for his goal and all it took was one rudimentary pass to him from the blue line and then Jarvis took over. Lol, I swear, I feel this must be the only team on these boards where the fans blame 101 factors on everything else rather than the game of the player in question.

Right, it's just Lafreniere isn't any good. And neither is Kakko. And neither is Chytil. And Neither is Kravtsov.

All those scouts were just wrong about all those players but just our players.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Right, it's just Lafreniere isn't any good. And neither is Kakko. And neither is Chytil. And Neither is Kravtsov.

All those scouts were just wrong about all those players but just our players.

At this point what else can be said?

People think they suck, want to insist so over and over, and won't stop until who knows when.

They'll call any resistance towards drawing conclusions about a pattern of young talented forwards not excelling and FLASHING NHL 22 dekes in the 30 seconds they play every 4-5 minutes of a game COPE. And they'll stay blind to the fact that nothing screams cope louder than cementing yourself in a cynical stance wherein if you're right you get to gloat and if you're wrong you get to have two or three fantastic players on your team in a few years.

It's honestly not worth engaging with. Nobody's coming at it in good faith.

 

[Bondra slapshot]

At this point what else can be said?

People think they suck, want to insist so over and over, and won't stop until who knows when.

They'll call any resistance towards drawing conclusions about a pattern of young talented forwards not excelling and FLASHING NHL 22 dekes in the 30 seconds they play every 4-5 minutes of a game COPE. And they'll stay blind to the fact that nothing screams cope louder than cementing yourself in a cynical stance wherein if you're right you get to gloat and if you're wrong you get to have two or three fantastic players on your team in a few years.

It's honestly not worth engaging with. Nobody's coming at it in good faith.

A lot of the cynical critics on here seem to just be thirsty for self created drama. I thank them for being the jokes I can laugh at though. Also, I'm curious to know in what context is the word "cope" being used? You don't mean to tell me that it's being used in the same way that modern day cry babies, who devolve into catastrophizing, impulsive, obsessive and deluded drama artists use it? Am I doing this right?

 

[bhamill]

Well. You've all convinced me: there's no hope. The outcome is determined. It's over for these guys. We have three top ten picks that have failed to make an impact yet in the NHL, at ages 20, 21, and 22, we should take them all out in the field and put them down. Laf, Kakko and Krav (sorry Jovo, but we want him to get the same treatment as the other top picks, right?). They're garbage and will never ever be real NHLers. I would OF COURSE include Lias, but that's LA's problem.

 

[bhamill]

A lot of the cynical critics on here seem to just be thirsty for self created drama. I thank them for being the jokes I can laugh at though. Also, I'm curious to know in what context is the word "cope" being used? You don't mean to tell me that it's being used in the same way that modern day cry babies, who devolve into catastrophizing, impulsive, obsessive and deluded drama artists use it? Am I doing this right?

Yeah. I'm just going with it from now on.

 

[Crease]

Part of the frustration is that if Laf and Kakko were simply matching pre-draft expectations, the Rangers would be a contender this season.

As for what Laf and Kakko's slow start means next season and beyond, the jury is still out. But it doesn't make anyone feel good.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Part of the frustration is that if Laf and Kakko were simply matching pre-draft expectations, the Rangers would be a contender this season.

As for what Laf and Kakko's slow start means next season and beyond, the jury is still out. But it doesn't make anyone feel good.

If Kakko and Laf were matching pre draft expectations we’d be in a world of hurt.
Kakko would be looking at 8x8 and Laf would be 10m in another year.
There’s a small benefit of them not blowing things up. I’d rather be in cap hell and them having 70+ point seasons but I’m looking on the bright side

 

[NickyFotiu]

I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion. I think that there is an extra layer of concern when you have back to back top picks both performing at a level where you have to comb the past 3 decades for comparables within the top 5 of the draft. If it were one kid it would be a lot easier to preach patience. When it’s two it’s concerning. When you add Chytil and Lias it’s alarming. That’s 4 players over 5 years drafted 1, 2, 7, 21 and the career high for any of them is 25 points so far. I know they’ve all played some shortened seasons, but even when you turn it into points per game, not one of them has really done well.

Excluding Lias, who is the worst and no longer a Ranger, Fil, KK and Laf have combined for 190 points in 526 games. Combined they each average a 29 point per 82 game pace.

Taking Laf and saying well I see similarities to early Huberdeau or Kessel’s numbers is fine. But trying to say “well look at Huberdeau” for Laf, KK and Fil begs the obvious… how many Huberdeaus do you realistically think we can have. If any one of them becomes 70% of the player Huberdeau is, that’s a massive win and still means pretty big Ls for the other two.

I think it is a mistake to lump multiple players together. I feared Lias was a bust the night we drafted him. Even my dad said the 2nd guy (Chytil) looked better. In regards to Chytil there is a reason he was drafted where he was. He has the size and speed BUT he has not been a big scorer since he was around 16 years old. So that brings us to Kakko. Another guy that was not a huge scorer but was more solid. His game is in part based on strength but he is still only 20 so he does not have that grown man strength. That brings us to Laf. He is the only guy out of the 4 that was a huge scorer before he was drafted. Like Kakko he is having some issues based on going against grown men. His offensive game is largely squashed when he gets shut down on those left boards. Put him on the RW. Put him on his forehand cutting to the middle of the ice as well as passing. This will open up his game in the future. I do not know what Laf nor Kakko's ceiling is but I'm confident they have not reached them at age 20. People wanted a tear down. We were lucky to get the #1 and #2 pick but in years that did not have ready to go superstars available at those picks. Both these guys probably could have spent some time in the AHL but it is what it is. They will both get better but it will take time. Kakko may become a 20 goal 40-50 point guy. Laf may become a 25 goal 60-70 point guy. Not McDavid's but still good players.

 

[Crease]

If Kakko and Laf were matching pre draft expectations we’d be in a world of hurt.
Kakko would be looking at 8x8 and Laf would be 10m in another year.
There’s a small benefit of them not blowing things up. I’d rather be in cap hell and them having 70+ point seasons but I’m looking on the bright side

If the Rangers won a Cup during their ELCs, no one should care about their second contracts.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Again, "only play on the first line" is something you said, not me.

I don't think anybody is going to be good on a terrible line. Other than Kreider-Zib-Laf, he's been on lines that produce like 4th lines all year. Lafreniere-Chytil-Gauthier scored at a 4th line rate over large samples.

And that's not to say he isn't part of the bad makeup of those lines, but why do we keep putting those lines together and then sticking with them.

I'm looking for him to be used in the middle six. Is that so outlandish? It's either the first line or a collection of our u22 squad. Isn't there a middle ground?

As coach Gallant's job is to win games. He is doing what he thinks gives us the best chance. Drury must have agreed because he went out and got us more guys to throw in that mix. I think Laf will be a top 6 guy if they switch him to RW. He could make some things happen in the playoffs but he needs a little patience. Gauthier is not going to play much. Goodrow has been a playoff contributor. Chytil has the size and speed but he does not have the scorers mentality or at least he has not for most of his career.

 

[LokiDog]

If the Rangers won a Cup during their ELCs, no one should care about their second contracts.

It’s exactly this. No one would care. If Laf looked like even an average RNH/Hischier type 1OA second year player and Kakko was something like a Svechnikov by year 3, we’d be Cup favorites right now. This year, with this exact roster. No one would care if we had to do some gymnastics to keep them after their ELC or if we had to find a way to dump money to accommodate them.

It’s also interesting that skating is a limiting factor for 3 of the 4 draft picks being discussed. It’s also just unfortunate that guys who were clearly not considered the BPA for our pick like Stutzle, Zegras and Lundell are all lighting it up and play a position of much greater need. Obviously you can say they may not have that success if they were playing in the Rangers current lineup because of the vets we have, but it’s a lot easier to see Stutzle or Zegras supplanting Strome quickly than it is for wingers to break into the top six, especially prior to this season when Buch was there as well. Not really griping about not selecting those guys as it would have been illogical, but it certainly has a sting to it when you see them putting up nice totals and, more over, just DOING things on the ice that make you say “that kid is going to be GOOD”.

 

[Machinehead]

As coach Gallant's job is to win games. He is doing what he thinks gives us the best chance. Drury must have agreed because he went out and got us more guys to throw in that mix. I think Laf will be a top 6 guy if they switch him to RW. He could make some things happen in the playoffs but he needs a little patience. Gauthier is not going to play much. Goodrow has been a playoff contributor. Chytil has the size and speed but he does not have the scorers mentality or at least he has not for most of his career.

Even from that standpoint, I don't agree with it.

We should be running three balanced lines, not two 1st lines and two 4th lines.

Like I said, this goes well beyond "I want Lafreniere with better players so he can score more." I don't want lines that can't score on the ice 25 minutes out of the game.

That's what we have right now with all the struggling players together. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[Shadowtron]

I've been pretty patient, but at this point in the season to see him still going large stretches without making any noticeable offensive contributions is a big bummer. It was his first full pro season so i'm gonna punt my concern to next october. If he hasn't made any real strides there is a massive issue that needs to be addressed.

Probably nothing and I don't wanna start any narratives, but a few months ago there was a girl on twitter posting selfies with Laffy at a bar pretty late after a game when there was a back to back the next day and I remember finding that odd. He didn't end up having a bad game and he is a kid so i'm not holding it against him at all, but I REALLY hope he isn't enjoying all the perks of NYC too much. Although that would probably be a better reason for his play than just lacking that next gear.

The hockey gods blessed us with the #1 and #2 pick in back to back drafts. The demon that curses this organization made sure we picked Patrick Stefan with both picks lol!!

 

[Machinehead]

We were supposed to be making trades to improve the bottom six and add balance to the lineup.

Instead we used the acquisitions to shift chairs around in an already good top six and kept right on rolling with Rooney, Reaves, and the godforsaken Kid Line.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

trade him we have too many LWers

 

[The Crypto Guy]

What does Goodrow have 4 points in the last 23 games now? Ah yes, definitely the ideal center for Laf, he should he THRIVING with all that talent at center.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Even from that standpoint, I don't agree with it.

We should be running three balanced lines, not two 1st lines and two 4th lines.

Like I said, this goes well beyond "I want Lafreniere with better players so he can score more." I don't want lines that can't score on the ice 25 minutes out of the game.

That's what we have right now with all the struggling players together. It doesn't make any sense.

You do not have to agree. IMO Gallant knows this team very well and he knows what he is doing. He is a very good head coach. Drury has done a good job in his first year as GM. If Chytil (before injury), Kakko, and Laf are good enough to be playing in the top 6 then they should do very well on our 3rd line going against other teams 3rd pairing defensemen.