Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[will1066]

Lafreniere is tearing us apart.

It's been an amazing last 2 days in this thread

 

[Synergy27]

It's been an amazing last 2 days in this thread

I’m pretty proud of my contribution to that of I’m being honest.

 

[AirGut]

maybe the biggest takeaway from all this is to never trust a guy who's named Alexis.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

It's been an amazing last 2 days in this thread

How so? I haven't seen Emily Kaplan's name mentioned once.

 

[UnSandvich]

How so? I haven't seen Emily Kaplan's name mentioned once.

Well you seem to have changed that lol

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Well you seem to have changed that lol

All part of my master plan to hook up @will1066 with the love of his life. I'm a romantic at heart - sue me.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Laf got a lot of hype and got compared to some really, really good players. WJC gold, MVP and #1OA seems to have been the summit of the mountain for him. Instead of realizing that being drafted - whether 1st or 50th - was just arriving at base camp and there was still a whole mountain to climb to actually be a star, he seemed to think going 1OA was the top of the mountain. He doesn’t seem to take his training seriously. Personally, I think he matured physically earlier than the kids he was playing against and hasn’t done anything to enhance that and ensure that he kept developing physically/athletically or from a skills or work ethic stand point.

This is the part where everyone loses me. You had me up until this. You guys are just making this part up

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I think Laf hears the noise and is going to make a lot of people eat some crow. Just a gut feeling I have.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

yeah find me a supporter of Laf who also think he is not underperforming. Laf shares blame himself.
The criticism that he is some lazy kid who doesn't care or never tries is hilarious. He's a world class athlete playing in the best professional hockey league in the world. He's only underperforming relative to being 1oa. He's still a tremendous asset to this organization.

thank you. Finally, some sense

 

[mas0764]

My opinion is unpopular and I’ve shared bits of it before, but here goes.

First of all - true or not - he seemed to think he was “one of the stars” and one of the big boys from day one, one of the core veteran group, someone who had already proven themselves. He hasn’t shown that he’s really worked on any area of his game very much, not his fitness, skating, etc and the grumbling over his deployment is FAR overblown. He was 22nd in the entire NHL in EV TOI for a LW last year. He was 98th among all forwards in EV TOI - that’s nearly 1st line TOI at even strength (32 teams x3 forwards per 1st line = 96).

He hasn’t gotten the PP time, sure, but he also hasn’t earned any. Sure, he could have just been spoon fed it on a worse team, but plenty of guys like Mercer and Jarvis should have also had good players ahead of them on the depth chart - they got an opportunity and RAN with it. Lafreniere has played with a lot of good players (including, his main linemates Chytil and Kakko, according to most here). The missing PP time wouldn’t give him a 20-30 point boost. It probably wouldn’t even give him a 15 point boost. I’m skeptical that year 3 Laf breaks 50 points even if stapled to the top PP. That’s not great for 1OA (though many would be happier, even if the overall PP was less effective, because even if Laf wasn’t any better of a player, seeing his counting stats creep higher would quell a lot of grumbling).

He’s done nothing with his opportunities or his ice time, which is NOT nearly as low as people act like it is. He also plays on the “kid line” comprised of 3 players that most Rangers fans seem to think all 3 belong in the top six. If that’s the case, than he’s playing with “top six talent”, isn’t he? And they’re getting softer matchups no less, while also getting nearly 1st line minutes at EV. A full top six caliber line of guys with room to get even better, playing against softer matchups because opponents have to divide their better defensive options among the K/Z line and the Bread line should let these kids feast a bit, no? They’re not rookies. 3, 4 and 5 years of experience.

Laf got a lot of hype and got compared to some really, really good players. WJC gold, MVP and #1OA seems to have been the summit of the mountain for him. Instead of realizing that being drafted - whether 1st or 50th - was just arriving at base camp and there was still a whole mountain to climb to actually be a star, he seemed to think going 1OA was the top of the mountain. He doesn’t seem to take his training seriously. Personally, I think he matured physically earlier than the kids he was playing against and hasn’t done anything to enhance that and ensure that he kept developing physically/athletically or from a skills or work ethic stand point.

He can still become a good player, but I highly doubt he will ever be a star or come close to the hype that he had. He comes across, and this is just my personal opinion (so relax) as an entitled and lazy guy who doesn’t have the innate drive to get better.

22nd LW TOI, 98th forward TOI at EV.

What are his production rankings at EV for those position groupings? Substantially worse? That is to say, did he produce like the 44th LW at EV or the 22nd?

Also I tend to think that he probably would fall ass backwards into at least 15-18 points or so if he was a regular on the power play. And that’s even if he is not excelling at it. Look at Trocheck.

 

[LokiDog]

22nd LW TOI, 98th forward TOI at EV.

What are his production rankings at EV for those position groupings? Substantially worse? That is to say, did he produce like the 44th LW at EV or the 22nd?

Also I tend to think that he probably would fall ass backwards into at least 15-18 points or so if he was a regular on the power play. And that’s even if he is not excelling at it. Look at Trocheck.

I mean, what are we even looking at? Trochek is a better player in every way besides age and he managed 17 PP points. I doubt Laf would hit 15 right now.

While 22nd among LW in EV he was 35th in EV scoring among LW. While 98th in EV for forwards he was 126 in EV points among forwards.

 

[will1066]

All part of my master plan to hook up @will1066 with the love of his life. I'm a romantic at heart - sue me.

I will be forever indebted to you

 

[JHS]

1. Is an opinion based on your assessment of his cardio fitness level because of how he looks at the end of shifts. Do you mean his face on the bench?

2. You don’t know him or his attitude. You’re basing this on absolutely nothing.

Okay, you’re using anecdotal evidence (if it’s even that). But you stated things as fact and were angry about it.

There are plenty of top athletes who have a drive to be the best who are more reserved. and there are plenty who are not “physical freaks” who are ultra competitive and have an endless work ethic.

Again, I just think you guys are making things up and stating them as fact. Maybe he ends up being a mid-player, maybe he further develops and takes off. We will have to watch his progression. And either way, you can remember back to when you thought he didn’t care because he “looks gassed” and “is not a physical freak” so he must not be working hard to get better. That’s why he became a bust, or he changed that after his third season and that’s why he became a star.

What is it that you think Laf does well? Serious question- what does he do even above average?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Alexis Lafrenier article on NHL Trade Talk:

The Truth About Trade Rumors Linking the Canadiens to Lafrenière

Rumors swirl about a possible trade involving Alexis Lafrenière, with the Montreal Canadiens among the contenders.

nhltradetalk.com

 

[Synergy27]

Alexis Lafrenier article on NHL Trade Talk:

The Truth About Trade Rumors Linking the Canadiens to Lafrenière

Rumors swirl about a possible trade involving Alexis Lafrenière, with the Montreal Canadiens among the contenders.

nhltradetalk.com

That article says nothing.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

What is it that you think Laf does well? Serious question- what does he do even above average?

That’s a different topic of conversation than the one being had.

There’s two sides of this. People who are disappointed in his results, but recognize the unique circumstances of his experience thus far (including COVID, team, usage, etc) and people who seem to have some sort of animus for the player. I am in the former. I also haven’t completely written him off yet.

To answer your question more directly, I think he has good vision, he’s good in tight spaces. He forechecks hard, mixes it up.

We can pick apart some of the physical tools he is average or below average in, like straight line speed. But I mostly think that what he lacks is confidence in his game. He doesn’t play with a lot of swagger when the puck is on his stick. Appears to grip it too tight. To me, that’s coaching. His ability to play the game the way that made him successful may be partially stifled by stiffer competition, but it also appears to have been neutered by his usage and by coaching demands. The evidence of that is in the press conferences and the way the team deploys him. He’s used as a grinder. He gets on the PP and is net front. That’s never been his game. Laf has always been a creative player with the freedom to try things. He carries the puck into the zone and makes plays. We don’t see that here not because he’s incapable of it. Like I said it could partially be related to stiffer competition. But I believe it’s because The coaches wanted him to play a more simple mistake-free game. That would make any young player nervous they’d be a scratch or get demoted. He’s trying to earn trust of the staff to get more ice time. If he makes a mistake he doesn’t get that chance. To me, that’s his biggest issue. His confidence. If Laviolette comes in and tells him to play his game, and actually gives him the freedom to do so, I expect a big jump in production. But that’s just my opinion. And if he gets that chance and doesn’t produce, then maybe he’s just not cut out for it. But some other team will eventually give him that chance, if the Rangers don’t.

 

[Levitate]

That article says nothing.

Lol yes it just rehashes stuff that was already gone over last month and say “it makes sense for Montreal because he’s French Canadian!” And then says “I think it’ll get done!”
Also talking like the contract extensions not being done is some major thing rather than not terribly uncommon for them to stretch towards training camp

 

[JHS]

That’s a different topic of conversation than the one being had.
To answer your question more directly, I think he has good vision, he’s good in tight spaces. He forechecks hard, mixes it up.

I asked what he does better than average. He does not have good vision- if anything it’s entirely average based on his entirely average assist total in a contract year. He mixes it up average to everyone else, his forecheck is so inconsistent I can’t possibly say that’s better than average. The only one maybe I can give you is he’s good in tough spaces.

But that’s entirely the point- there are a million reasons why the guy is not good, a million excuses that if they did not occur he’d be better but the reality is, his skills are NHL average to below average in literally every aspect of the game. It’s hard to make a star out of that.

 

[Levitate]

I asked what he does better than average. He does not have good vision- if anything it’s entirely average based on his entirely average assist total in a contract year. He mixes it up average to everyone else, his forecheck is so inconsistent I can’t possibly say that’s better than average. The only one maybe I can give you is he’s good in tough spaces.

But that’s entirely the point- there are a million reasons why the guy is not good, a million excuses that if they did not occur he’d be better but the reality is, his skills are NHL average to below average in literally every aspect of the game. It’s hard to make a star out of that.

I don’t think NHL average or below average scores 19 EV goals or 40 mostly EV points
There’s plenty of reason to be disappointed, as people say even those EV numbers could be better, but I think he has above average hands and shot for sure. He’s struggled to learn the best ways to use them though

He’s also shown some bright flashes at times but feels like those have gotten less frequent as he got stuffed into a support role and his chances in the top six were limited

 

[Levitate]

Re: the top six chances, I think this is where Gallant and trying to win and not giving a top prospect time comes into play. The rangers didn’t have patience to wait for young players in the top six to start producing points even when they played well (so they replaced them with vets who also didn’t play well for the most part) so the kids learn that they aren’t trusted to work through it and they’re not trusted to learn to be offensive players
I feel like it’s different when a guy comes in at 21-22 with some AHL time under his belt and forces the issue versus someone who comes in at 18’and is expected to force out an established vet while learning a whole new level of competition and then stuffed away in the bottom six

 

[Leonardo87]

Hey Folks,

I know it’s summer but can we try and get back on topic about Laf and not about different generations, appreciate it.

Thanks

Leo

 

[Vito Andolini]

Re: the top six chances, I think this is where Gallant and trying to win and not giving a top prospect time comes into play. The rangers didn’t have patience to wait for young players in the top six to start producing points even when they played well (so they replaced them with vets who also didn’t play well for the most part)

I don't think this is a Gallant thing. The organization has a goal to win now. Drury has gone for it twice in a row at the deadline and sold assets for vets. There's no doubt in my mind, that even with a new staff, the goal remains to win now.

It's true that Laf hasn't received much of a shot at a top 6 role, but he really didn't produce much when he did. We're at the point now where he needs to make the most of the opportunities, whenever they come along. That goes for Laf, the same as for any of the other kids that get a shot at more ice time and PP reps.

 

[JHS]

I don't think this is a Gallant thing. The organization has a goal to win now. Drury has gone for it twice in a row at the deadline and sold assets for vets. There's no doubt in my mind, that even with a new staff, the goal remains to win now.

It's true that Laf hasn't received much of a shot at a top 6 role, but he really didn't produce much when he did. We're at the point now where he needs to make the most of the opportunities, whenever they come along. That goes for Laf, the same as for any of the other kids that get a shot at more ice time and PP reps.

This is exactly right on basically every level. Laf has not earned top 6 minutes- he’s honestly done nothing to earn powerplay minutes either. I feel like half this board just wants him to get these opportunities because he’s the first overall pick- not because he’s earned them. It’s very hard to see how, if he was not the top overall pick, that he would have such a loud audience championing for him.

 

[bhamill]

Lol…, there’s no way that was the number…that’s obesity levels of BF.



But people want him to be faster too? That’s seems like a fine weight for someone at his size

That was the number mentioned. Which should tell us ALL it was bullshit. Hahaha.

 

[NickyFotiu]

If this board claims Laf, Chytil, and KK are all top 6 players than they already are playing with top 6 players. We cant say they are top 6 caliper players but then use linemates as a rationalization for a lack of production.