Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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I can't believe the stuff I'm reading here, some pretty funny takes, I didn't know his personal trainers and psychologists were friends of the forum. I guess if he isn't built like Brindamour, and high fiving everyone on the bench he's a bust at 21, didn't realize it was that simple. Then when he finally gets in his groove the haters are gonna say they weren't wrong about him, he just changed his attitude and workout training because some guy at walmart that checks groceries for his Dad says so.
 
Yeah there are a ton of people making assumptions because they saw him look goofy or unconcerned for those three seconds the camera caught him that one time. And they are turning it into “I’m so over this guy, can’t stand him.” Because they bury an idea in their head and then run with it to the point of absurdity.

Agree.

And, honestly, maybe part of the problem are the expectations resulting in so much pressure on himself that he's just frozen. It happens.

Know what helps with that? Maturity.

Can't rush the sauce. Let it cook. Be patient. The Rangers would be best to solve their problem instead of getting rid of it. Let the guy get a little older.

And, some of the hot takes and conjecture around here are borderline comical.
 
You say it’s based on literally nothing. I understand this inclination, but I just disagree. You can see with your eyes several concerning attributes.

1. He is just not a physical freak. He looks a bit soft still and I don’t think anyone can deny that he takes short shifts and looks completely gassed at the end of them. Can I say with confidence that he has x% body fat and whatever VO2max? No. But can I say with confidence that he doesn’t clearly demonstrate those attributes at an elite level? I think I can.

2. His attitude is just, blah. He doesn’t come across as a “I am here to be the best player in the world” type of guy. He seems very content to be “one of the guys”.

Is this anecdotal evidence? Yep. Is it “literally nothing”? Nope.
1. Is an opinion based on your assessment of his cardio fitness level because of how he looks at the end of shifts. Do you mean his face on the bench?

2. You don’t know him or his attitude. You’re basing this on absolutely nothing.

Okay, you’re using anecdotal evidence (if it’s even that). But you stated things as fact and were angry about it.

There are plenty of top athletes who have a drive to be the best who are more reserved. and there are plenty who are not “physical freaks” who are ultra competitive and have an endless work ethic.

Again, I just think you guys are making things up and stating them as fact. Maybe he ends up being a mid-player, maybe he further develops and takes off. We will have to watch his progression. And either way, you can remember back to when you thought he didn’t care because he “looks gassed” and “is not a physical freak” so he must not be working hard to get better. That’s why he became a bust, or he changed that after his third season and that’s why he became a star.
 
1. Is an opinion based on your assessment of his cardio fitness level because of how he looks at the end of shifts. Do you mean his face on the bench?

2. You don’t know him or his attitude. You’re basing this on absolutely nothing.

Okay, you’re using anecdotal evidence (if it’s even that). But you stated things as fact and were angry about it.

There are plenty of top athletes who have a drive to be the best who are more reserved. and there are plenty who are not “physical freaks” who are ultra competitive and have an endless work ethic.

Again, I just think you guys are making things up and stating them as fact. Maybe he ends up being a mid-player, maybe he further develops and takes off. We will have to watch his progression. And either way, you can remember back to when you thought he didn’t care because he “looks gassed” and “is not a physical freak” so he must not be working hard to get better. That’s why he became a bust, or he changed that after his third season and that’s why he became a star.
I’m not making up the fact that he looks gassed at the end of shifts. I am not making up the fact that there are countless instances of him goofing around on the bench, or in the penalty box. I am not making up the fact that we don’t have any “behind the scenes” looks at the kid’s intense off season training program, or social media posts that paint the picture that he is doing anything to get better.

Sure, I am citing these things as potential reasons why a consensus 1OA stud may not be developing into the star most expected and I could be totally wrong, but I am not just making stuff up.
 
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My opinion is unpopular and I’ve shared bits of it before, but here goes.

First of all - true or not - he seemed to think he was “one of the stars” and one of the big boys from day one, one of the core veteran group, someone who had already proven themselves. He hasn’t shown that he’s really worked on any area of his game very much, not his fitness, skating, etc and the grumbling over his deployment is FAR overblown. He was 22nd in the entire NHL in EV TOI for a LW last year. He was 98th among all forwards in EV TOI - that’s nearly 1st line TOI at even strength (32 teams x3 forwards per 1st line = 96).

He hasn’t gotten the PP time, sure, but he also hasn’t earned any. Sure, he could have just been spoon fed it on a worse team, but plenty of guys like Mercer and Jarvis should have also had good players ahead of them on the depth chart - they got an opportunity and RAN with it. Lafreniere has played with a lot of good players (including, his main linemates Chytil and Kakko, according to most here). The missing PP time wouldn’t give him a 20-30 point boost. It probably wouldn’t even give him a 15 point boost. I’m skeptical that year 3 Laf breaks 50 points even if stapled to the top PP. That’s not great for 1OA (though many would be happier, even if the overall PP was less effective, because even if Laf wasn’t any better of a player, seeing his counting stats creep higher would quell a lot of grumbling).

He’s done nothing with his opportunities or his ice time, which is NOT nearly as low as people act like it is. He also plays on the “kid line” comprised of 3 players that most Rangers fans seem to think all 3 belong in the top six. If that’s the case, than he’s playing with “top six talent”, isn’t he? And they’re getting softer matchups no less, while also getting nearly 1st line minutes at EV. A full top six caliber line of guys with room to get even better, playing against softer matchups because opponents have to divide their better defensive options among the K/Z line and the Bread line should let these kids feast a bit, no? They’re not rookies. 3, 4 and 5 years of experience.

Laf got a lot of hype and got compared to some really, really good players. WJC gold, MVP and #1OA seems to have been the summit of the mountain for him. Instead of realizing that being drafted - whether 1st or 50th - was just arriving at base camp and there was still a whole mountain to climb to actually be a star, he seemed to think going 1OA was the top of the mountain. He doesn’t seem to take his training seriously. Personally, I think he matured physically earlier than the kids he was playing against and hasn’t done anything to enhance that and ensure that he kept developing physically/athletically or from a skills or work ethic stand point.

He can still become a good player, but I highly doubt he will ever be a star or come close to the hype that he had. He comes across, and this is just my personal opinion (so relax) as an entitled and lazy guy who doesn’t have the innate drive to get better.
 
Another good guy to look at, 1OA, who didn't really pop until much later in his career is none other than RNH.

I don’t really think that’s true. 52 point rookie year, paced for 49 as a sophomore in 40 games. 56 in his third year. 56 his fourth year. Paced for 50 in 55 games his 5th year. 43 in a disappointing year 6. 48 in 62 (63 point pace) in year 7. 69 points in year 8. 61 in 65 in year 9. The fact that he put up 100 points this year (his 12th) playing behind McD and Drai is an aberration. He pretty much came into the league as a 50-55 point player and found consistency to become a 65-70 point player. Laf has come in as a 30 point player - the same kind of general improvement would have him ending up as like a 50-55 point player (RNH as a rookie) with maybe an outlier year of 65ish here or there.

RNH came in and went 52, 50 pace, 56, 56 and slowly inched closer to a 65 point average, maybe now closer to a 70 point average playing with the two best in the universe. He never really “popped” until this crazy season in his 12th year. Laf came in with 30 pace, 31, 39. If he follows the same arch as RNH he’ll level out as a 50ish point guy from years 6-10 and maybe we can hope for a shocking 75 point season when he’s 30.
 
I don’t really think that’s true. 52 point rookie year, paced for 49 as a sophomore in 40 games. 56 in his third year. 56 his fourth year. Paced for 50 in 55 games his 5th year. 43 in a disappointing year 6. 48 in 62 (63 point pace) in year 7. 69 points in year 8. 61 in 65 in year 9. The fact that he put up 100 points this year (his 12th) playing behind McD and Drai is an aberration. He pretty much came into the league as a 50-55 point player and found consistency to become a 65-70 point player. Laf has come in as a 30 point player - the same kind of general improvement would have him ending up as like a 50-55 point player (RNH as a rookie) with maybe an outlier year of 65ish here or there.

RNH came in and went 52, 50 pace, 56, 56 and slowly inched closer to a 65 point average, maybe now closer to a 70 point average playing with the two best in the universe. He never really “popped” until this crazy season in his 12th year. Laf came in with 30 pace, 31, 39. If he follows the same arch as RNH he’ll level out as a 50ish point guy from years 6-10 and maybe we can hope for a shocking 75 point season when he’s 30.

Take a look at RNH's PP points when considering those early years vs. Lafreniere's.
 
Take a look at RNH's PP points when considering those early years vs. Lafreniere's.

The PP points are a somewhat tired crutch for Laf. As I posted above, he played the 22nd most EV minutes of any LW in the NHL last year and the 98th most EV minutes of any forward. He plays with good players - not Motte and Brodzinski and Gauthier. He also averages 30+ seconds more ice time at EV and on the PP than Chytil, who is better, more experienced and more deserving yet out produces him in every way with less TOI.

My earlier post a couple up acknowledges the PP situation, and I’m not saying it makes NO difference, but Laf is really on a bit of an island as a 1OA. He’s definitely fighting a bit of an uphill battle to become anything close to a legitimate 1st liner in the NHL at this point, especially if this season doesn’t show some promising improvement. I don’t disagree entirely with your premise, but I also don’t see the same degree of promise or talent from Lafreniere as many people others try to compare him to when searching for a good late bloomer. PP time would help his production a bit - I saw somewhere posted (not positive of the veracity) that a boost from 1:17 PP per night to 3 minutes would yield about a 6% increase in production on average - but it’s also very difficult to make a case that Laf is actually the 5th, 6th, 7th or even 8th best option to be on the PP right now.
 
Take a look at RNH's PP points when considering those early years vs. Lafreniere's.
ok - yeah the pp was undeniably a major reason why nuge had the stats that he had during his first 3 seasons. personally i think those feats are actually quite awesome considering who were the coaches during 2 of those 3 seasons - eakins and career wrecker ralph krueger!!!

nuge is a top 10 PP specialist. laffy would blow loads if he could accomplish 1/3 of nuge's numbers if given the proper allotment of pp icetime.
 
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Pointless to add my opinion really but IMO Laf needs to improve but his situation has been less than ideal and difficult
It’s multiple things at once here but the only thing he can do is put in the work and force the issue best he can and that’s just what we can expect or hope for
 
I get this sentiment, and want to agree with it without reservation. But, pro sports aside, there is a legitimate, growing subset of young people that are legitimately opting out of work entirely, let alone hard work. The thing is, I think they are justified to an extent.

Kids graduating high school today are presented with a pretty bad deal. Work some service job for peanuts that can’t even get you a studio apartment in a place you’d actually want to live or go to college and take on massive debt for a very questionable at best ROI.

Have you ever visited /r/antiwork? This subreddit has 2.7M subscribers.

Am I still a boomer if I question the work ethic of young people but also think that they are kinda justified?

Regarding sports - I don’t ever remember hearing about players in the 90s or early 2000s failing out of the league because they were addicted to Goldeneye. There is so, so much distraction these days that complicates the issue even further.
I think most athletes work far harder these days than athletes in the past did, overall

Also hard to compare stuff like antiwork reddit forums to stuff decades ago because it may just be giving a public forum to people who would have been saying the same stuff years ago

But I mean this stuff was said about millennials, genx, boomers, even going further back to late 1800s there were people writing to papers about how this new generation just doesn’t want to work

But yeah also to some extent we might start seeing people disenchanted with their prospects and the myth of “if you just work hard you’ll be successful and that’s all it takes”
 
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I genuinely don’t even understand what this means. I don’t care if the kids goofs around all day. It’s his career.

But if you’re arguing that you can simultaneously goof off AND be a peak, superstar athlete, and to think otherwise is an outdated idea, then yeah, I guess I’m a boomer because that’s just nonsense. No one at the peak of any human endeavor, especially physical, got there by goofing off.
Kessel may be an apt comparison but Kessel was a much better and gifted athlete. What could have Kessel been with proper nutrition and training?

I just have hope that Laffy digs in and becomes the best version of himself
 
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Kessel may be an apt comparison but Kessel was a much better and gifted athlete. What could have Kessel been with proper nutrition and training?

I just have hope that Laffy digs in and becomes the best version of himself
From anecdotal stories Kessel is a freak natural athlete in a way few people are
 
I get this sentiment, and want to agree with it without reservation. But, pro sports aside, there is a legitimate, growing subset of young people that are legitimately opting out of work entirely, let alone hard work. The thing is, I think they are justified to an extent.

Kids graduating high school today are presented with a pretty bad deal. Work some service job for peanuts that can’t even get you a studio apartment in a place you’d actually want to live or go to college and take on massive debt for a very questionable at best ROI.

Have you ever visited /r/antiwork? This subreddit has 2.7M subscribers.

Am I still a boomer if I question the work ethic of young people but also think that they are kinda justified?

Regarding sports - I don’t ever remember hearing about players in the 90s or early 2000s failing out of the league because they were addicted to Goldeneye. There is so, so much distraction these days that complicates the issue even further.
My young neighbor has always worked since he turned 16. He loves his truck which he pays for. He wants to get his own place. He is shocked how many of his friends do not want to work or even get their drivers licenses. I could not wait to get my drivers license or my own place when I was a teenager. Almost everyone I knew felt the same way when 15-18. I'm not bashing the young kids of today. Its just different for some reason.
 
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Wouldn't be shocked if he slumps this year given last year was contract year + he had high EV TOI last year as others pointed out + more true RW options available on the bench this year
 
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