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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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SA16 said:
Ok, one of the two worst. Does it make a difference? Those two performed far far worse than any other #1 in their first year.



It doesn't make a difference. What we shouldn't be doing is preaching patience and saying how it's a process. We shouldn't be saying we expected him to start slow and take a few years. We shouldn't be using the lack of games due to COVID as an excuse when it hasn't been a problem for other guys in his draft class. We shouldn't be twisting the data to show he's actual the leading 5v5 goal scorer among these guys and ignoring he's doing it with low volume and 20% shooting. We shouldn't be discussing his goal scoring numbers to make ourselves believe he has been better when up until recently he just hasn't been noticeable on the ice. Guys in his position are expected to come in and produce right away. He was not seen as one of the lesser #1 picks at the time of the draft. That is how almost all of them do it. We should be hoping he gets better and becomes an impact player in the future without lying to ourselves and acting like he's been good so far in his career or like the expectations should be set insanely low.
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Do you think its coincidence that they were the two “worst” and that their development was absolutely UN hindered by COVID restrictions/conditions? You think just because a couple of players seem less affected that it’s not a factor? That doesn’t seem like solid logic. How many players have been gangbusters from those two drafts? Answer is probably zero. None came in and blew everyone away in the first year.
We shouldn’t be preaching patience? Why not? Haha. Personally I think that’s silly. Plenty of great players have taken a while to get going. And really what does being impatient get you? I’m not sure what your goal is there. Haha. You dont want to be patient? Fine don’t be. But don’t expect everyone to be so hell bent on instant gratification.
 
bhamill said:
Do you think its coincidence that they were the two “worst” and that their development was absolutely UN hindered by COVID restrictions/conditions? You think just because a couple of players seem less affected that it’s not a factor? That doesn’t seem like solid logic. How many players have been gangbusters from those two drafts? Answer is probably zero. None came in and blew everyone away in the first year.
We shouldn’t be preaching patience? Why not? Haha. Personally I think that’s silly. Plenty of great players have taken a while to get going. And really what does being impatient get you? I’m not sure what your goal is there. Haha. You dont want to be patient? Fine don’t be. But don’t expect everyone to be so hell bent on instant gratification.
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Again. You're rationalizing and making excuses.

I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that he (and Hughes) were two of the worst performing #1 picks in their first year. They performed way below any reasonable expectation. These guys are almost always top six players right away. Hughes and Laf were not considered to be weak #1 overall picks. McDavid, no - of course not - but not considered way below average.

And to answer your question of "how many players...from those two drafts." that's an irrelevant question. You wouldn't expect players drafted in the mid to late first to perform in their draft year or the year after. Generally that's really only the guys taken #1 or #2. For reference, take the #5 pick, Pettersson and Vanek look to be the only ones to score at least 40 points in the last 20 years.

Hughes has gotten better and now is pretty great. Hopefully Laf will too.
 
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SA16 said:
Again. You're rationalizing and making excuses.

I don't understand why it is so hard to accept that he (and Hughes) were two of the worst performing #1 picks in their first year. They performed way below any reasonable expectation. These guys are almost always top six players right away. Hughes and Laf were not considered to be weak #1 overall picks. McDavid, no - of course not - but not considered way below average.

And to answer your question of "how many players...from those two drafts." that's an irrelevant question. You wouldn't expect players drafted in the mid to late first to perform in their draft year or the year after. Generally that's really only the guys taken #1 or #2. For reference, take the #5 pick, Pettersson and Vanek look to be the only ones to score at least 40 points in the last 20 years.

Hughes has gotten better and now is pretty great. Hopefully Laf will too.
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Hahah. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The fact is the two “worst” happened during COVID. Yes, rational people might wonder why that is. Occam’s Razor isn’t huge on coincidence. The most likely EXPLANATION (as opposed to excuse) is that the pandemic DID AFFECT their development. And the fact that NO others (its not unusual for a top 10 or 15 guy that wasn’t 1OA, to really turn some heads) from that draft burst out onto the scene is far from irrelevant, it’s corroborating evidence. This is how logic works. Is it a lock? Is it airtight? Of course not. But it’s the simplest, most likely explanation.
so yeah, I’ll be patient, I won’t preach it because you gotta do YOU, but I’ll practice it, and we will see where all these player drafted during COVID are in two years.
 
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bhamill said:
Hahah. Nothing happens in a vacuum. The fact is the two “worst” happened during COVID. Yes, rational people might wonder why that is. Occam’s Razor isn’t huge on coincidence. The most likely EXPLANATION (as opposed to excuse) is that the pandemic DID AFFECT their development. And the fact that NO others (its not unusual for a top 10 or 15 guy that wasn’t 1OA, to really turn some heads) from that draft burst out onto the scene is far from irrelevant, it’s corroborating evidence. This is how logic works. Is it a lock? Is it airtight? Of course not. But it’s the simplest, most likely explanation.
so yeah, I’ll be patient, I won’t preach it because you gotta do YOU, but I’ll practice it, and we will see where all these player drafted during COVID are in two years.
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Well I just looked at every forward pick from 5-15 since 2010 and as far as I can tell the only ones who had a "big" D or D+1 were Keller, Larkin, Monahan, and Skinner. And I'm being generous with Larkin who had 45 points his draft year and 32 his next.

So in 12 years that's four players.

Not unusual though.
 
SA16 said:
Well I just looked at every forward pick from 5-15 since 2010 and as far as I can tell the only ones who had a "big" D or D+1 were Keller, Larkin, Monahan, and Skinner. And I'm being generous with Larkin who had 45 points his draft year and 32 his next.

So in 12 years that's four players.

Not unusual though.
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Maybe “not unheard of” works better. Haha. But I think you see where I’m coming from, like I see where you are coming from, even if we happen to disagree.
 
Wait I just realized you left out guys picked 2-4 in those years. I said guys not drafted 1OA. I was thinking where’s Eichel? Haha. In any case we will know soon enough, right?
 
very interesting reading here. A polite disagreement and many points are legit. My 2 cents? I don't believe I read the word "confidence". (If so, sorry) But my take is that it is necessary.
Basically NO player should be given top 6, nor substantial PP time, but it happens based on a pathetic club needing a star and their gifts.
The Rangers didn't NEED that, and GG has seen to it that this kid "gets what he deserves", and also "why rock the boat, within the team".
At some point the kid is working very hard while getting his feet wet. Confidence growing daily, so now or sometime soon he has earned more ice time an possibly PP time. IT IS A PROCESS, and I am fine with GG making those decisions as to when and "how much".
This is a pretty unique situation as Good teams like the Rangers don't get 1OA very often, no need to rush. NY AND the pandemic is quite the mountain for what was a 19 yr. old. That's my take.
 
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Synergy27 said:


Just leaving this here to remind everyone of what Laf did in the CHL and why winning that lottery was such a big deal.
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I remember the hype on these boards was very real. I saw people (who were not rangers fans) say things like "the most sure fire first liner I've ever seen drafted." He wasn't supposed to be McDavid, but the expectation was that he could be a top 10 scorer in the league within a few seasons. He was supposedly more ready to make the jump than let's say MacKinnon.

And yet no one noticed he had some serious skating issues? It's like one of the easiest things to spot.
 
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Synergy27 said:


Just leaving this here to remind everyone of what Laf did in the CHL and why winning that lottery was such a big deal.
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Crosby = 222P first 2 seasons
Tavares = 121P first 2 seasons
Stamkos = 141P first 2 seasons
Hall = 95P first 2 seasons
Laf = 40 points first 2 seasons and counting

I do recognize the fact that Laf hasn't played nearly that amount of games in his first two seasons as the rest of these players, but I also recognize the fact that nothing leaves me to believe that he'd even be near Hall's numbers if he played the same amount of games.

Maybe we just got lucky. :) Obviously his jump to the NHL was something of an eye opener for him.
 
ReddestRum said:
Crosby = 222P first 2 seasons
Tavares = 121P first 2 seasons
Stamkos = 141P first 2 seasons
Hall = 95P first 2 seasons
Laf = 40 points first 2 seasons and counting

I do recognize the fact that Laf hasn't played nearly that amount of games in his first two seasons as the rest of these players, but I also recognize the fact that nothing leaves me to believe that he'd even be near Hall's numbers if he played the same amount of games.

Maybe we just got lucky. :) Obviously his jump to the NHL was something of an eye opener for him.
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Actually it’s ONE (shortened) season and counting for Laf. But I get your gist.
Jack Hughes didnt light it up his first two season, but is certainly doing so this season. I do think most players from the 2020 and 2019 had their development slowed by the pandemic. We shall see.
Youre entitled to your disappointment, I’m not too worried.
 
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bhamill said:
Actually it’s ONE (shortened) season and counting for Laf. But I get your gist.
Jack Hughes didnt light it up his first two season, but is certainly doing so this season. I do think most players from the 2020 and 2019 had their development slowed by the pandemic. We shall see.
Youre entitled to your disappointment, I’m not too worried.
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I'm fair and this is fair to say. The pandemic didn't do developing players any justice, but its disingenuous to have a shortened season be a scapegoat when other players in the NHL coped just fine. From what I've gathered thus far in this tread, the average of season Laf needs to play to be an 80 point scorer is one to five years. :)
 
ReddestRum said:
I'm fair and this is fair to say. The pandemic didn't do developing players any justice, but its disingenuous to have a shortened season be a scapegoat when other players in the NHL coped just fine. From what I've gathered thus far in this tread, the average of season Laf needs to play to be an 80 point scorer is one to five years. :)
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Laf was drafted first overall on a team that was already very good, he was getting 12 minutes a night ice time and still doesn’t see any powerplay time at all. Everyone else on this list was seeing 17 minutes a night and all the PP time. I’m not saying he’d be averaging a point per game but I guarantee we’d see way more points closer to hall’s production. Probably closer to stamkos production
 
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ReddestRum said:
I'm fair and this is fair to say. The pandemic didn't do developing players any justice, but its disingenuous to have a shortened season be a scapegoat when other players in the NHL coped just fine. From what I've gathered thus far in this tread, the average of season Laf needs to play to be an 80 point scorer is one to five years. :)
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My opinion? He’ll be a well rounded, physical, ppg (or close) winger by the ripe old age of 22. No I cannot guarantee this. And I’m fine with your skepticism.
 
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The rumor is Alexis Lafreniere is avaliable for trade. I understand I wouldn't want to trade him either. But just Curious as a Dallas Star Fan would Radulov, Faksa and Ty Dallandra get that deal close maybe add a 2nd rounder for Alexis Lafreniere and Julien Gauthier work?
 
skygodz187 said:
The rumor is Alexis Lafreniere is avaliable for trade. I understand I wouldn't want to trade him either. But just Curious as a Dallas Star Fan would Radulov, Faksa and Ty Dallandra get that deal close maybe add a 2nd rounder for Alexis Lafreniere and Julien Gauthier work?
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No way in hell.
 
skygodz187 said:
The rumor is Alexis Lafreniere is avaliable for trade. I understand I wouldn't want to trade him either. But just Curious as a Dallas Star Fan would Radulov, Faksa and Ty Dallandra get that deal close maybe add a 2nd rounder for Alexis Lafreniere and Julien Gauthier work?
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Are you on drugs?

Try adding four first rounders to that so
I can simply give you a flat rejection instead of a spit take.
 
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skygodz187 said:
The rumor is Alexis Lafreniere is avaliable for trade. I understand I wouldn't want to trade him either. But just Curious as a Dallas Star Fan would Radulov, Faksa and Ty Dallandra get that deal close maybe add a 2nd rounder for Alexis Lafreniere and Julien Gauthier work?
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Well. This boils down to Dellandrea, Faksa and a 2nd for the NYR taking Radulov’s contract, Lafreniere and Gauthier. Being that Ty has 5 NHL points in like 25 games and is a year older than Lafreniere, and Faksa is a finished product at 28 who scores less than Laf, I’d have to say that would be a GREAT trade for Dallas. I don’t think there is any way in hell NYR would do that.
Throw Wyatt Johnston in there and you’d maybe have some takers on here.
 
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bhamill said:
Well. This boils down to Dellandrea, Faska and a 2nd for the NYR taking Radulov’s contract, Lafreniere and Gauthier. Being that Ty has 5 NHL points in like 25 games and is a year older than Lafreniere, and Faksa is a finished product at 28 who scores less than Laf, I’d have to say that would be a GREAT trade for Dallas. I don’t think there is any way in hell NYR would do that.
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I have a counter offer. Gurianov, Wyatt Johnston, and Dallas’s next three first round picks for our 7th this year. Just as realistic.
 
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skygodz187 said:
The rumor is Alexis Lafreniere is avaliable for trade. I understand I wouldn't want to trade him either. But just Curious as a Dallas Star Fan would Radulov, Faksa and Ty Dallandra get that deal close maybe add a 2nd rounder for Alexis Lafreniere and Julien Gauthier work?
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Really? Could they really be giving up on the kid this quickly? Oy.

He got an assist, tonight. Nice.
 
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