Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Shesterkybomb]

We have tried dump ins but often are second to the puck or the goalie plays it.

There's no way that could happen often if its done correctly, i dont care if it's Dave Semenko chasing it down.

 

[NickyFotiu]

There's no way that could happen often if its done correctly, i dont care if it's Dave Semenko chasing it down.

Well I can't say it was done correctly because its often 1 guy at a time. Go watch our last 5 games vs NJ or most games against a goalie that can handle the puck. We are a very poor dump and retrieve team.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Well I can't say it was done correctly because its often 1 guy at a time. Go watch our last 5 games vs NJ or most games against a goalie that can handle the puck. We are a very poor dump and retrieve team.

We dump when there's no other option, not as an actual gameplan outside of the 4th line.

 

[ReddestRum]

We dump when there's no other option, not as an actual gameplan outside of the 4th line.

Pretty sure our system is dump and chase and rarely recover the puck. Or gain the blue line and ring it around the boards about three or four times before we turn it over.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Pretty sure our system is dump and chase and rarely recover the puck. Or gain the blue line and ring it around the boards about three or four times before we turn it over.

These players dont wanna get dirty

 

[IDvsEGO]

Pretty sure our system is dump and chase and rarely recover the puck. Or gain the blue line and ring it around the boards about three or four times before we turn it over.

Dump and chase is the worst system ever. The rangers didnt have a system for zone entry under gallant. Thats the problem.

 

[bhamill]

Pretty sure our system is dump and chase and rarely recover the puck. Or gain the blue line and ring it around the boards about three or four times before we turn it over.

Dump and MAYBE chase…

 

[NickyFotiu]

Dump and MAYBE chase…

Dump and I will wait here in case we get the puck.

 

[bleedblue94]

I can blame him if he doesn't get in great shape or improve in other ways. I can't blame him for being drafted #1. I can't hold that against him.

They go together. He was drafted 1oa bc of his raw talent and what he had done. That talent needs to be nurtured to become the best form of itself that it can and that requires hard work. His lack of conditioning and improvement compared to others in his draft class isn't disappointing, it's alarming. Can you seriously look at him and suggest that there has been substantial improvement in his game from year 2 to year 3? That he is stronger on the puck, that his skating has improved? That his conditioning has looked better? I can't at all, and that is unacceptable bc those things allow a player with his 1oa level talent to become a great player if they want to. Those players need to put the damn work in and there is very little to suggest he has. A 1oa or even top 5 picks really should be thought of as replaceable entering his 4th year in the league. Those are the guys teams have as foundational picks and players.

 

[bleedblue94]

Yeah but we all agree he's a disappointment as a 1OA.

Citing Lafreniere in comparison to other 1OAs is water under the bridge at this point.

Like, if we all signed an affidavit acknowledging that Lafreniere is the worst 1OA of the modern era, can we put that context to bed?

The 1OA thing is done. He's a disappointment in that regard.

...

The "excuse-making" comes in now in reference to people who want to trade him for ten cents on the dollar, who claim he will only amount to "half," of Kreider's career, etc, etc.

The "excuse-making," is statistical comparisons that tend to tell a story that he's still likely to improve significantly and still likely to be a good NHL player.

How good, whether he will ever get to star status, and what we can get for him are all much better debates, but those all require the projection of his increased development, better deployment under a new coach, better role, increased minutes, etc, etc, etc.



His defensive ability in 20-21 still wasn't great. It was ok.

You can get a better defender than what Trouba did in 20-21 for half his salary still.

This is silly.

If you're accepting that he's the worst 1oa pick in x years then how are you trading him for cents on the dollar. You'd be trading him for what you believe he is. Its like you'd want to trade him for dollars on the cents. The kid didn't lose his talent, he just hasn't to this point committed to what he needs to do to be the best player he can be. There's no way an 18 year old can't improve his skating over 3 years with the best resources in the world at his disposal of he wants to put the time in. There's no way his conditioning can't improve either. Everyone here bitched for years about his ice time being down and I am fairly certain it had stayed down bc he couldn't physically manage the higher minutes on a regular basis. The kid needs to put the f***ing work in and people either need to keep w the standard that should be of a player of his talent and pedigree or just move on and accept another lias type deal. You can't have it both ways where you've given up on him being extremely good but also unwilling to move him bc you won't get a fair return for what you don't even think he is. It's like being made you can't sell a car for book value when the engine is dead, but in reality all you need to do is replace the timing belt and the engine can work and the car can finally function at full value. Laffy, put the f***ing work in kid...

 

[ORRFForever]

Laffy, put the f***ing work in kid...

If I'm the NYR, I work LAF until he drops. No more kid gloves. Give him the minutes and let him either <bleep> or get off the pot. If he's not producing after half the season, trade him for whatever you can get.

There is NO upside to having someone like that on the team and, if he goes elsewhere and excels, it is what it is.

 

[mas0764]

This is silly.

If you're accepting that he's the worst 1oa pick in x years then how are you trading him for cents on the dollar. You'd be trading him for what you believe he is. Its like you'd want to trade him for dollars on the cents.

Have you seen some of the trade proposals?

If Lafreniere ends up with a Kreider-like career he's the worst 1OA since Yakupov and the worst for many years before that, but you still can't dump him like some people are advocating.

The kid didn't lose his talent, he just hasn't to this point committed to what he needs to do to be the best player he can be.

I think we all agree with that too, in fact it's what I'm saying.

 

[bhamill]

If I'm the NYR, I work LAF until he drops. No more kid gloves. Give him the minutes and let him either <bleep> or get off the pot. If he's not producing after half the season, trade him for whatever you can get.

There is NO upside to having someone like that on the team and, if he goes elsewhere and excels, it is what it is.

This all depends on the return. I tend to believe we would not get a return worth the risk. Hopefully it’s moot and he has a great first half.

 

[bleedblue94]

Have you seen some of the trade proposals?

If Lafreniere ends up with a Kreider-like career he's the worst 1OA since Yakupov and the worst for many years before that, but you still can't dump him like some people are advocating.



I think we all agree with that too, in fact it's what I'm saying.

I'm not talking about the stupid ea type proposals from the main board.

 

[Zarao71]

The fitness of this team has gone down the shitter since Torts left.
Take off the pads and guys like Laff, Chytil, Fox, Zbad look like they never saw a gym.
This isn't the 70's.
Take a look at Jordan Staal in post game interviews. That is a professional athlete who prepares himself for the rigors of the NHL in 2023. Guys like Chara and MacKinnon would never allow their teammates to get away with this.
Hopefully, Laviolette and the new coaching staff whip this charmin soft crew into shape.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Are there any updates on what this kid is doing in the offseason?

Should be getting skating lessons and hitting the gym hard after a few weeks off.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Are there any updates on what this kid is doing in the offseason?

Should be getting skating lessons and hitting the gym hard after a few weeks off.

In regards to the post above, not every athlete is going to blow up with a physique like a Jordan Staal or Chris Kreider. In fact, I think we'll wind up seeing Laf and Kakko both fill out pretty well. With all of the cardio a hockey player does the muscle strength doesnt always translate into big burly man muscle.

In fact if you train too hard, eat too much and gain too much weight it could actually have the opposite effect on one's mobility and quickness. Jordan Staal plays a heavy game so its ok for him to put on some poundage. Kreider is a freak of nature. Strength training and sport specific exercise plans will yield success on the ice but not necessarily in the mirror.

The next time I see him at one of the bars in SoHo or Chelsea I’ll be sure to ask!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

The fitness of this team has gone down the shitter since Torts left.
Take off the pads and guys like Laff, Chytil, Fox, Zbad look like they never saw a gym.
This isn't the 70's.
Take a look at Jordan Staal in post game interviews. That is a professional athlete who prepares himself for the rigors of the NHL in 2023. Guys like Chara and MacKinnon would never allow their teammates to get away with this.
Hopefully, Laviolette and the new coaching staff whip this charmin soft crew into shape.

not every athlete is going to blow up with a physique like a Jordan Staal or Chris Kreider. In fact, I think we'll wind up seeing Laf and Kakko both fill out pretty well. Chytil is not skinny. He put on some muscle last season and i'd expect him to fill out even more, since hes only 23.

In regards to some of the other players mentioned, we've been down this road. With all of the cardio a hockey player does the muscle strength doesn't always translate into big burly man muscle. Im sure 75% of the Cup winning Vegas team doesnt look like Jordan Staal.

In fact if you train too hard, eat too much and gain too much weight it could actually have the opposite effect on one's mobility and quickness which is needed in todays game. Jordan Staal plays a heavy game so its ok for him to put on some poundage. Kreider is a freak of nature and has it all. Genetics...

Strength training and sport specific exercise plans will yield success on the ice but not necessarily in the mirror - although on the surface questions about Fox and Mika may have some merit to them.

Either way, to me that's more of a Drury roster decision than something an individual like them can really change. Fox isn't your every day player, especially as a defenseman. He's won a Norris and came in 2nd in voting this season so why question the guys physique? Mika, maybe he could gain some muscle mass, but its more mental with him if you ask me. The guy dominates in all areas when he is on.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Im not a big stat guy but this morning I took a peak at Gordie Howes stats. Its crazy Gordie put up similar stats..... at age 51

 

[bhamill]

not every athlete is going to blow up with a physique like a Jordan Staal or Chris Kreider. In fact, I think we'll wind up seeing Laf and Kakko both fill out pretty well. Chytil is not skinny. He put on some muscle last season and i'd expect him to fill out even more, since hes only 23.

In regards to some of the other players mentioned, we've been down this road. With all of the cardio a hockey player does the muscle strength doesn't always translate into big burly man muscle. Im sure 75% of the Cup winning Vegas team doesnt look like Jordan Staal.

In fact if you train too hard, eat too much and gain too much weight it could actually have the opposite effect on one's mobility and quickness which is needed in todays game. Jordan Staal plays a heavy game so its ok for him to put on some poundage. Kreider is a freak of nature and has it all. Genetics...

Strength training and sport specific exercise plans will yield success on the ice but not necessarily in the mirror - although on the surface questions about Fox and Mika may have some merit to them.

Either way, to me that's more of a Drury roster decision than something an individual like them can really change. Fox isn't your every day player, especially as a defenseman. He's won a Norris and came in 2nd in voting this season so why question the guys physique? Mika, maybe he could gain some muscle mass, but its more mental with him if you ask me. The guy dominates in all areas when he is on.

Well reasoned.

Im not a big stat guy but this morning I took a peak at Gordie Howes stats. Its crazy Gordie put up similar stats..... at age 51

His D+30? Or was that befiore the draft? hahaha.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Well reasoned.


His D+30? Or was that befiore the draft? hahaha.

He didn't miss time due to Covid so.....

 

[will1066]

Laf is making the poutine his routine.

 

[bhamill]

Laf is making the poutine his routine.

Can't blame him. Hahaha.
You can eat some stuff that is "less than great for you" and still stay in shape. Its all about balance. I don't deprive myself of stuff like pizza, biscuits and sausage gravy, BBQ, beer, whiskey and fried chicken sandwiches... but I know I have to cut back other places or up my exercise. I don't like sweets, so that makes it easier. It's all balance and discipline.
I'm 61 years old, 5'10" and 145 solid pounds, and I'm no freak or pro athlete. He's got to REALLY commit to strength and conditioning and then if he wants poutine, he can have it.

 

[will1066]

Can't blame him. Hahaha.
You can eat some stuff that is "less than great for you" and still stay in shape. Its all about balance. I don't deprive myself of stuff like pizza, biscuits and sausage gravy, BBQ, beer, whiskey and fried chicken sandwiches... but I know I have to cut back other places or up my exercise. I don't like sweets, so that makes it easier. It's all balance and discipline.
I'm 61 years old, 5'10" and 145 solid pounds, and I'm no freak or pro athlete. He's got to REALLY commit to strength and conditioning and then if he wants poutine, he can have it.

It's stress eating for him.

You have a good BMI.

My approach and philosophy are the same: don't deprive, but balance and moderation. I'm not a big sweets person, I don't beverage much anymore -- alcohol or soft drinks.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Can't blame him. Hahaha.
You can eat some stuff that is "less than great for you" and still stay in shape. Its all about balance. I don't deprive myself of stuff like pizza, biscuits and sausage gravy, BBQ, beer, whiskey and fried chicken sandwiches... but I know I have to cut back other places or up my exercise. I don't like sweets, so that makes it easier. It's all balance and discipline.
I'm 61 years old, 5'10" and 145 solid pounds, and I'm no freak or pro athlete. He's got to REALLY commit to strength and conditioning and then if he wants poutine, he can have it.

5-10 145 is pretty impressive for a 61 year old. Im 183 but trying to lose at least another 10-14