Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bhamill]

A good team needs a combination of goals. We do not want all perimeter based goals nor all "dirty" goals. I'm happy Laf has scored some goals in close. That is great. That shows an inclination to stick his nose in the danger zone. With that said those type goals are not how he became the #1 overall pick. I'd like to see him improve his skating and puck handling to the point where we can see some of his junior type goals added back in to his arsenal of weapons.

Sure. Not disputing that at all. Just commenting on how the goalposts get dragged all over creation. Hahaha.

 

[NickyFotiu]

You answered your own question on Laf. It's a lack of speed and creating space. That extends to not only creating his own shot, but also creating space necessary to exhibit playmaking skills which were billed as elite.

He's actually quite good at being in front of the net, doing some dirty work, deflections (very good hand-eye coordination). He is one of the only guys on the team willing to forecheck and pester puck carriers, but he's not nearly as effective as he could be. His mind is in the right place, but his body is not. His frame needs to fill out more and he needs a half step or more of foot speed. These things are attainable with appropriate training.

It's not a surprise, but also worrisome, to hear his offseason training has not nearly been good enough that it's starting to leak out of the Rangers org. For a guy who I think clearly has a compete gene ON the ice, why has he not been willing to compete OFF the ice? Being a good pro hockey player is not just a 8-9 month job with summers off. It's year round, and the 3-4 months of offseason matters just as much if not more.

Guys that have played defense know you have to back up and give some room to fast guys so they do not fly right by you. Unless they try to get right on top of them before they get the puck. We do not have guys that mandate that fear of being blown around. We really need to get some guys that push defenses back. Many of our guys have to play in a phone booth unless on the power play.

 

[Levitate]

actually am interested in where people have heard bad things about his offseason training? any links ?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Sure. Not disputing that at all. Just commenting on how the goalposts get dragged all over creation. Hahaha.

I'm happy Laf has scored those goals. He has good instincts around the net and is willing to go there. That sometimes is the last thing a young high draft pick does. If I was the Rangers management I would really encourage him to be working 5 hours a day on his skating and fitness 5 days a week. I'd show him film of his own games from juniors. I'd say remember how that guy played? Are you ready to become him again?

 

[Levitate]

Guys that have played defense know you have to back up and give some room to fast guys so they do not fly right by you. Unless they try to get right on top of them before they get the puck. We do not have guys that mandate that fear of being blown around. We really need to get some guys that push defenses back. Many of our guys have to play in a phone booth unless on the power play.

but to some extent it's also a result of their breakout and transition game. The Rangers don't move the puck vertically up the ice fast at all most of the time, their skaters rarely are able to attack with speed because they're trying to go cross ice even in the neutral zone, and everyone is watching the puck carrier waiting to see what they'll do and you've got most of the team spread across the ice evenly instead of attacking vertically so defenses can easily sit back against that

e: also kinda happens a lot in the offensive zone. They're spread out boards to boards but slowing down and looking for cross ice passes
I like watching the teams that obviously have some plays where they get the puck up the ice quickly and can have one guy start driving the D back (even if it's not a speedy player who is forcing them to back off quickly) and can drop the puck or make some pass to another player coming up behind them with speed. Or similiar within the offensive zone...start pushing the D back and then pass the puck to someone coming in behind you and drive to the net creating a screen and a pick for your teammate and have other guys crashing towards the net from the other sides. More misdirection, more makign the D have to read and react to what's going on, hopefully get them lost and miss an assignment, etc. The way the Rangers have played it's been pretty easy for other teams to just stick to man on man and neutralize them because there's no real trickery to it

 

[GENESISPuck94]

actually am interested in where people have heard bad things about his offseason training? any links ?

Their cousin's mailman's sister's boyfriend's uncle who had season tickets said so.

 

[bbny]

actually am interested in where people have heard bad things about his offseason training? any links ?

Arthur Staple.

Five keys to a successful first season for Peter Laviolette

There are several areas of concern for the Rangers that Peter Laviolette will have to navigate.

theathletic.com

The biggest enigma on the Rangers roster is their 2020 No. 1 pick. Lafrenière has shown some good stretches given how little ice time he gets, but the zeroes across in this season’s playoff series surely left a bad taste in Drury’s mouth, especially going into a contract summer for the restricted free agent. A huge part of whether Lafrenière succeeds in New York is on the 21-year-old, who hasn’t shown the level of dedication to his offseason work that the Rangers would like.

 

[NickyFotiu]

but to some extent it's also a result of their breakout and transition game. The Rangers don't move the puck vertically up the ice fast at all most of the time, their skaters rarely are able to attack with speed because they're trying to go cross ice even in the neutral zone, and everyone is watching the puck carrier waiting to see what they'll do and you've got most of the team spread across the ice evenly instead of attacking vertically so defenses can easily sit back against that

You are right. The breakout does play a role as does the forecheck. Carolina plays the game thinking the puck can move faster than guys skates. A fast passing system is very hard to beat but we really do lack individual speed. That was so dramatic vs NJ. I'd like more individual speed. That will help our forecheck as well which can lead to more odd man chances and takeaways.

 

[bbny]

Their cousin's mailman's sister's boyfriend's uncle who had season tickets said so.

I haven't done a 23andMe, but I'd be pretty surprised if my cousin's mailman's sister's boyfriend's uncle is Arthur Staple.

 

[Levitate]

ah, thanks. yeah he's no phil kessel, most players have to really work in the offseason to reach their potential

You are right. The breakout does play a role as does the forecheck. Carolina plays the game thinking the puck can move faster than guys skates. A fast passing system is very hard to beat but we really do lack individual speed. That was so dramatic vs NJ. I'd like more individual speed. That will help our forecheck as well which can lead to more odd man chances and takeaways.

I'd like more speed but if it can't be easily done I'll take a gameplan that results in playing faster

Like, as you say, I don't think Carolina is really that fast with their actual skating but they play fast. No reason the Rangers can't work towards that as well

 

[NickyFotiu]

ah, thanks. yeah he's no phil kessel, most players have to really work in the offseason to reach their potential


I'd like more speed but if it can't be easily done I'll take a gameplan that results in playing faster

Like, as you say, I don't think Carolina is really that fast with their actual skating but they play fast. No reason the Rangers can't work towards that as well

Carolina plays fast and they do have some fast players but they also have guys like Stepan who can be timed with a sundial nowadays. Rod says the puck moves faster than feet.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Carolina plays fast and they do have some fast players but they also have guys like Stepan who can be timed with a sundial nowadays. Rod says the puck moves faster than feet.

And knowing where to be ahead of time and knowing where the puck is going will let players play faster.

Laf isn’t slow but he doesn’t have the burst that someone like mcdavid or mackinnon have. So letting him get a head of steam helps significantly.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

His shot isn't his problem. Getting to a place where he has a good shooting position is rare for him. I don't know if its skating, positioning, ability to to receive passes smoothly or what but if he figures it out his shot will be fine imo.

Seems to do extremely well finding the open areas in front of the net to bang in rebounds.

 

[NickyFotiu]

And knowing where to be ahead of time and knowing where the puck is going will let players play faster.

Laf isn’t slow but he doesn’t have the burst that someone like mcdavid or mackinnon have. So letting him get a head of steam helps significantly.

That is true. That is why we need to find a way to create space. We have very few guys with any 3-8 foot burst. A guy like Hughes seems to be near full speed in 3 strides. Laf has decent (not great) speed if he gets a 15-20 foot wind up to get going.

 

[bhamill]

Arthur Staple.

Five keys to a successful first season for Peter Laviolette

There are several areas of concern for the Rangers that Peter Laviolette will have to navigate.

theathletic.com

Yeah. Look, I want him to work harder, I want him to fill out his frame and get stronger and quicker... BUT Staple saying "hasn’t shown the level of dedication to his offseason work that the Rangers would like" honestly doesn't really mean anything. When did his word on such things become gospel?
IMO, Vally saying he wants to see more offseason work from the kids means a whole hell of a lot more, but still doesn't mean they aren't actually dedicated. I think that maybe the concept that the level of dedication to training to be a top junior player isn't the same as the level required to be an NHL star hasn't been made clear enough.

 

[duhmetreE]

actually am interested in where people have heard bad things about his offseason training? any links ?

it stems from Vally. Pretty confident Staple got it from Vally too

 

[NickyFotiu]

Seems to do extremely well finding the open areas in front of the net to bang in rebounds.

I have no problem with him in those situations but he was not drafted #1 because he was a Steve Vickers clone.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I have no problem with him in those situations but he was not drafted #1 because he was a Steve Vickers clone.

Goals are goals. I dont care how or where he scores them. Keep up those bang bang goals, and start adding more goalscoring away from the net.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Goals are goals. I dont care how or where he scores them. Keep up those bang bang goals, and start adding more goalscoring away from the net.

I would never turn down any kind of goal. I'm impressed that he will go to the dirty areas. Many young guys will not. Many Rangers will not but Laf really needs to look at his junior game films. Does he want to be that guy again? Is he willing to put in the work to get there again or is he okay just being a solid player?

 

[bbny]

Yeah. Look, I want him to work harder, I want him to fill out his frame and get stronger and quicker... BUT Staple saying "hasn’t shown the level of dedication to his offseason work that the Rangers would like" honestly doesn't really mean anything. When did his word on such things become gospel?
IMO, Vally saying he wants to see more offseason work from the kids means a whole hell of a lot more, but still doesn't mean they aren't actually dedicated. I think that maybe the concept that the level of dedication to training to be a top junior player isn't the same as the level required to be an NHL star hasn't been made clear enough.

I actually think it means a lot. He didn't just make it up. The wording of what he wrote is very matter of fact, and it strongly implies it's a commonly shared belief held within the org rather than some hotly debated topic.

 

[bhamill]

I actually think it means a lot. He didn't just make it up. The wording of what he wrote is very matter of fact, and it strongly implies it's a commonly shared belief held within the org rather than some hotly debated topic.

How much weight we give it is a subjective call. It can mean a lot to you and zero to me. If we took everything beat writers say as gospel we'd be all over the f***in place. hahaha.

 

[bbny]

How much weight we give it is a subjective call. It can mean a lot to you and zero to me. If we took everything beat writers say as gospel we'd be all over the f***in place. hahaha.

Well, yes, people are entitled to their own opinions. The beat writers separate their own speculation from "word from the horse's mouth" pretty well. This is pretty clear cut the latter. Nobody has to agree with the Rangers that Lafreniere's commitment to offseason training hasn't been good enough, but I don't know how anyone would know enough about the situation to disagree with it.

 

[bhamill]

Well, yes, people are entitled to their own opinions. The beat writers separate their own speculation from "word from the horse's mouth" pretty well. This is pretty clear cut the latter. Nobody has to agree with the Rangers that Lafreniere's commitment to offseason training hasn't been good enough, but I don't know how anyone would know enough about the situation to disagree with it.

It's not that I don't agree with the NYR that Laf's commitment to offseason training is less than they want (THEY know what they want, not me, not necessarily Staple), it's that I don't agree that just because a beat writer said it that that makes it what the NYR organization really feels. I've said many times on here that I'd love Laf to take his training to "Kreider levels"... My point is I don't take Staple's one line in an article as an indication of how NYR really feel. And to be honest I'm not sure why my taking beat writers with a grain of salt is an issue.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Guys that have played defense know you have to back up and give some room to fast guys so they do not fly right by you. Unless they try to get right on top of them before they get the puck. We do not have guys that mandate that fear of being blown around. We really need to get some guys that push defenses back. Many of our guys have to play in a phone booth unless on the power play.

Thats what a dump in is for, the problem is that we are consistently trying to hold onto the puck, it's become predictable, do you think any dman thinks Panarin is dumping it in? They play him like he is gonna hold onto it because he is.

It's not that I don't agree with the NYR that Laf's commitment to offseason training is less than they want (THEY know what they want, not me, not necessarily Staple), it's that I don't agree that just because a beat writer said it that that makes it what the NYR organization really feels. I've said many times on here that I'd love Laf to take his training to "Kreider levels"... My point is I don't take Staple's one line in an article as an indication of how NYR really feel. And to be honest I'm not sure why my taking beat writers with a grain of salt is an issue.

They should have moved Lafreniere in with Kreider day 1. Good teams do this a lot. I remember Sid moving in with Mario and he stayed there for years. Not that Sid needed to learn how to train because he didn't but having Lafreniere with Kreider would have helped a lot imo.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Thats what a dump in is for, the problem is that we are consistently trying to hold onto the puck, it's become predictable, do you think any dman thinks Panarin is dumping it in? They play him like he is gonna hold onto it because he is.

We have tried dump ins but often are second to the puck or the goalie plays it.