Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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I'm not asking him to look good.

I'm asking him to look better than Luca Sbisa and Cal Clutterbuck.
That changes nothing that I said. There's no context there. I'm asking him to actually get a look so we can actually SEE if he's trash on the PP. 30 second shifts tell us nothing. I think we've both expressed what we think on it and I doubt either of us is moving. Hahaha.
 
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Lafreniere averaged ~27.6 PP seconds/powerplay (have to use PP instead of 5v4 based on available data). That is number 198/213 last year among forwards with 80+ minutes. He scored 4 points. The median of players under 30 seconds/shift was 5.6 points. Players do not score in this role. Players with similar PP usage appear to be Zucker, Dries, Newhook, Haula, Lowry, Sheary, Colton, Paul. I'm trying to exclude guys I know my proxy stat is off on (i.e. someone like Dawson Mercer who spent many games completely off the PP)

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Here's a graph roughly of pp shift length vs pts/60 (lol oilers/ovy)
 
Lafreniere averaged ~27.6 PP seconds/powerplay (have to use PP instead of 5v4 based on available data). That is number 198/213 last year among forwards with 80+ minutes. He scored 4 points. The median of players under 30 seconds/shift was 5.6 points. Players do not score in this role. Players with similar PP usage appear to be Zucker, Dries, Newhook, Haula, Lowry, Sheary, Colton, Paul. I'm trying to exclude guys I know my proxy stat is off on (i.e. someone like Dawson Mercer who spent many games completely off the PP)

View attachment 719730

Here's a graph roughly of pp shift length vs pts/60 (lol oilers/ovy)
30 second shifts can't give us the story. It's just a terrible sample. Nothing much gets set up in 30 seconds, especially including zone entry in that time, and that's the meat of a powerplay.
 
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The problem for Lafreniere is his skillset is best suited for playing as a LH shot on the left wall on the PP. Unfortunately that's exactly where you would want Zibanejad and/or Panarin playing instead. He doesn't have a good enough one timer to play on his off-wing as a shooting threat. So either he plays down low by the goal line on PP1 or on the left wall on PP2.
 
Lafreniere averaged ~27.6 PP seconds/powerplay (have to use PP instead of 5v4 based on available data). That is number 198/213 last year among forwards with 80+ minutes. He scored 4 points. The median of players under 30 seconds/shift was 5.6 points. Players do not score in this role. Players with similar PP usage appear to be Zucker, Dries, Newhook, Haula, Lowry, Sheary, Colton, Paul. I'm trying to exclude guys I know my proxy stat is off on (i.e. someone like Dawson Mercer who spent many games completely off the PP)

View attachment 719730

Here's a graph roughly of pp shift length vs pts/60 (lol oilers/ovy)

Interesting.
 
The problem for Lafreniere is his skillset is best suited for playing as a LH shot on the left wall on the PP. Unfortunately that's exactly where you would want Zibanejad and/or Panarin playing instead. He doesn't have a good enough one timer to play on his off-wing as a shooting threat. So either he plays down low by the goal line on PP1 or on the left wall on PP2.
God forbid one of our players improves their skills game.

Everyone is just happy to be here and collect a check. Laffy loves telling his CoD lobbies he plays for the New York Rangers.
 
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The problem for Lafreniere is his skillset is best suited for playing as a LH shot on the left wall on the PP. Unfortunately that's exactly where you would want Zibanejad and/or Panarin playing instead. He doesn't have a good enough one timer to play on his off-wing as a shooting threat. So either he plays down low by the goal line on PP1 or on the left wall on PP2.

Sure, and he doesn't have to get minutes over Zibanejad and Panarin in the playoffs or down the stretch in critical games.

But this Rangers team is basically a foregone conclusion for making the playoffs. They have the best goalie in the league, one of the three best defensemen in the league, and good enough forwards to eat up lesser competition.

So... as many of us have been clamoring for... yeah, he doesn't need to 'earn' the PP minutes over one or two of the best PP players in the league in Zibanejad and Panarin... he needs to be GIVEN those minutes in situations that are not critical to the team, so that he can develop.... which is best for the team.
 
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God forbid one of our players improves their skills game.

Everyone is just happy to be here and collect a check. Laffy loves telling his CoD lobbies he plays for the New York Rangers.
Well with certain attributes I think it's just innate or it's not. I don't know how much you can really improve on learning how to shoot a puck a certain way when iou are not built for it. Like Rick Nash, he never had a good slapshot/one-timer, he just wasn't built for it genetically. It isn't a matter of not working hard in this instance.
 
Sure, and he doesn't have to get minutes over Zibanejad and Panarin in the playoffs or down the stretch in critical games.

But this Rangers team is basically a foregone conclusion for making the playoffs. They have the best goalie in the league, one of the three best defensemen in the league, and good enough forwards to eat up lesser competition.

So... as many of us have been clamoring for... yeah, he doesn't need to 'earn' the PP minutes over one or two of the best PP players in the league in Zibanejad and Panarin... he needs to be GIVEN those minutes in situations that are not critical to the team, so that he can develop.... which is best for the team.
This is just preposterous, first of all nothing is a guarantee. The games still have to be played. It's not a f***ing daycare, "okay Mika, okay artemi, now it's Alexis' turn to play with the Xbox." The team is trying to win, the players are trying to win and want to play and produce. You don't just give a worse player minutes over a better player to gain exp so they reach their medium elite potential.
 
Well with certain attributes I think it's just innate or it's not. I don't know how much you can really improve on learning how to shoot a puck a certain way when iou are not built for it. Like Rick Nash, he never had a good slapshot/one-timer, he just wasn't built for it genetically. It isn't a matter of not working hard in this instance.
Nash's stick was too big. It sounds dumb but it's true

Laffy can most definitely improve his shot to the point it becomes a strength.... caveat being 'if he wants to'. He might be content with being what and where he is... that's the sad part.
 
This is just preposterous, first of all nothing is a guarantee.

It's really not.

The Rangers aren't gonna miss the playoffs if they lose a game or two in November to Chicago because Lafreniere gets some full PP time for a month.

And other teams experiment with looks and lineups that aren't their best all the time. It's called preparation.
 
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Nash's stick was too big. It sounds dumb but it's true

Laffy can most definitely improve his shot to the point it becomes a strength.... caveat being 'if he wants to'. He might be content with being what and where he is... that's the sad part.
That's not why Nash didn't have a good one-timer. Yeah he can improve to a degree but he's never going to be able to change his mechanics to all of a sudden become a real threat shooting off the pass.
 
Well with certain attributes I think it's just innate or it's not. I don't know how much you can really improve on learning how to shoot a puck a certain way when iou are not built for it. Like Rick Nash, he never had a good slapshot/one-timer, he just wasn't built for it genetically. It isn't a matter of not working hard in this instance.

Saw someone post some interesting stuff elsewhere about Connor Bedard's shot and why it's so insane (and why Matthews shot was also so insane but is more pedestrian now). There's different methods of teaching shooting now, and yeah some guys can do it better than others, but for established players it'd also be completely breaking down all you've learned and redoing it and that probably isn't feasible. Decades of muscle memory is gonna be tough to overcome.
Anyways, some of the guys with the amazing shots like Bedard are more slinging the puck rather than sweeping it along the ice and then up into the air. getting it off the ice and onto their stick as soon as possible, and in Bedard's case, being able to do this from almost any insane angle (some of his goals where his left hand is basically up over his head and his stick is perpendicular to the ice)
But it requires a lot of wrist strength and movement and if you get your wrists hacked to shit like Matthews has then you can't shoot it like that anymore very easily unless you miraculously recover completely from your wrist injuries. So, decent reason why Matthews might never be the goal scorer he used to be and why Bedard will have to protect himself if he doesnt' want to end up the same.

But for a player like Laf, probably too late to learn how to shoot like that. His straight up wrist shot is actually pretty good though i think...he can beat goalies with it from some distance if he shot more and got a bit more luck. Tweaking and improving his technique a bit and shoot more often and I think he'd do fine with it.

That's not why Nash didn't have a good one-timer. Yeah he can improve to a degree but he's never going to be able to change his mechanics to all of a sudden become a real threat shooting off the pass.
IMO Nash's strength as a shooter was just that he was accurate and he wasn't always trying to snipe top corners all the time. I feel like he liked going low, just over the pad often blocker side a lot of the time
 
Saw someone post some interesting stuff elsewhere about Connor Bedard's shot and why it's so insane (and why Matthews shot was also so insane but is more pedestrian now). There's different methods of teaching shooting now, and yeah some guys can do it better than others, but for established players it'd also be completely breaking down all you've learned and redoing it and that probably isn't feasible. Decades of muscle memory is gonna be tough to overcome.
Anyways, some of the guys with the amazing shots like Bedard are more slinging the puck rather than sweeping it along the ice and then up into the air. getting it off the ice and onto their stick as soon as possible, and in Bedard's case, being able to do this from almost any insane angle (some of his goals where his left hand is basically up over his head and his stick is perpendicular to the ice)
But it requires a lot of wrist strength and movement and if you get your wrists hacked to shit like Matthews has then you can't shoot it like that anymore very easily unless you miraculously recover completely from your wrist injuries. So, decent reason why Matthews might never be the goal scorer he used to be and why Bedard will have to protect himself if he doesnt' want to end up the same.

But for a player like Laf, probably too late to learn how to shoot like that. His straight up wrist shot is actually pretty good though i think...he can beat goalies with it from some distance if he shot more and got a bit more luck. Tweaking and improving his technique a bit and shoot more often and I think he'd do fine with it.


IMO Nash's strength as a shooter was just that he was accurate and he wasn't always trying to snipe top corners all the time. I feel like he liked going low, just over the pad often blocker side a lot of the time
I agree Laf does have a pretty good snapper, when he does get it off it's heavy and has some velocity on it. But I'm talking specifically about one-timing the puck which is a different animal.
 
This is just preposterous, first of all nothing is a guarantee. The games still have to be played. It's not a f***ing daycare, "okay Mika, okay artemi, now it's Alexis' turn to play with the Xbox." The team is trying to win, the players are trying to win and want to play and produce. You don't just give a worse player minutes over a better player to gain exp so they reach their medium elite potential.
I think there is a balance to be had. Hahaha. We don't need to be extreme about it, alternating power play setups can very well be in the best interests of the team, both short and long term. Imagine if we had a second reliable game tested pp to put out there against NJ...
 
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This is just preposterous, first of all nothing is a guarantee. The games still have to be played. It's not a f***ing daycare, "okay Mika, okay artemi, now it's Alexis' turn to play with the Xbox." The team is trying to win, the players are trying to win and want to play and produce. You don't just give a worse player minutes over a better player to gain exp so they reach their medium elite potential.
how else is he going to farm XP to level up?

That's not why Nash didn't have a good one-timer. Yeah he can improve to a degree but he's never going to be able to change his mechanics to all of a sudden become a real threat shooting off the pass.
it doesn't have to be subject to 'one-timer'. He could have definitely improved. His stick did play a big role in it imo. He had to slingshot/whip most of his shots into the goalies pads. Similar issue with a player like Zucc. They were just awkward shooting in general
 
it doesn't have to be subject to 'one-timer'. He could have definitely improved. His stick did play a big role in it imo. He had to slingshot/whip most of his shots into the goalies pads. Similar issue with a player like Zucc. They were just awkward shooting in general
In theory a longer stick should make it easier to shoot the puck harder/faster, but it makes stick handling more difficult. It's the same reason why golf club manufacturers are putting longer shafts in drivers. Go more far.
 
I agree Laf does have a pretty good snapper, when he does get it off it's heavy and has some velocity on it. But I'm talking specifically about one-timing the puck which is a different animal.

Imagine supposedly having a good snap shot and having 1 shot or less in 41 games of the season.
 
Imagine supposedly having a good snap shot and having 1 shot or less in 41 games of the season.
His shot isn't his problem. Getting to a place where he has a good shooting position is rare for him. I don't know if its skating, positioning, ability to to receive passes smoothly or what but if he figures it out his shot will be fine imo.
 
His shot isn't his problem. Getting to a place where he has a good shooting position is rare for him. I don't know if its skating, positioning, ability to to receive passes smoothly or what but if he figures it out his shot will be fine imo.

I will say this, we as a team have shooting problems in general. Always too fancy. A pass first team that doesn't ever realize some of the best chances come off shooting the puck for rebounds. Then again, I rarely ever see us in position to put rebounds home when they do happen. Who knows.
 
I will say this, we as a team have shooting problems in general. Always too fancy. A pass first team that doesn't ever realize some of the best chances come off shooting the puck for rebounds. Then again, I rarely ever see us in position to put rebounds home when they do happen. Who knows.
You are right about dirty goals but I feel we pass a lot because we don't create enough space to feel confident about our shooting chances. We are really lacking in speed and space. I'd be open to changing our top 6 and our defensemen as well because I don't enjoy our style. We have skills but they show up on the PP because they have space. We have very few guys that other teams fear one on one so they back up. We need guys that create space. Chytil does that a little. Mika a little. Bread does it a little but with shiftiness not speed.
 
You are right about dirty goals but I feel we pass a lot because we don't create enough space to feel confident about our shooting chances. We are really lacking in speed and space. I'd be open to changing our top 6 and our defensemen as well because I don't enjoy our style. We have skills but they show up on the PP because they have space. We have very few guys that other teams fear one on one so they back up. We need guys that create space. Chytil does that a little. Mika a little. Bread does it a little but with shiftiness not speed.
And yet when Laf was knocking in dirty goals the narrative was "well ANYONE could score those..." hahaha.
 
And yet when Laf was knocking in dirty goals the narrative was "well ANYONE could score those..." hahaha.
A good team needs a combination of goals. We do not want all perimeter based goals nor all "dirty" goals. I'm happy Laf has scored some goals in close. That is great. That shows an inclination to stick his nose in the danger zone. With that said those type goals are not how he became the #1 overall pick. I'd like to see him improve his skating and puck handling to the point where we can see some of his junior type goals added back in to his arsenal of weapons.
 
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His shot isn't his problem. Getting to a place where he has a good shooting position is rare for him. I don't know if its skating, positioning, ability to to receive passes smoothly or what but if he figures it out his shot will be fine imo.

You are right about dirty goals but I feel we pass a lot because we don't create enough space to feel confident about our shooting chances. We are really lacking in speed and space. I'd be open to changing our top 6 and our defensemen as well because I don't enjoy our style. We have skills but they show up on the PP because they have space. We have very few guys that other teams fear one on one so they back up. We need guys that create space. Chytil does that a little. Mika a little. Bread does it a little but with shiftiness not speed.
You answered your own question on Laf. It's a lack of speed and creating space. That extends to not only creating his own shot, but also creating space necessary to exhibit playmaking skills which were billed as elite.

He's actually quite good at being in front of the net, doing some dirty work, deflections (very good hand-eye coordination). He is one of the only guys on the team willing to forecheck and pester puck carriers, but he's not nearly as effective as he could be. His mind is in the right place, but his body is not. His frame needs to fill out more and he needs a half step or more of foot speed. These things are attainable with appropriate training.

It's not a surprise, but also worrisome, to hear his offseason training has not nearly been good enough that it's starting to leak out of the Rangers org. For a guy who I think clearly has a compete gene ON the ice, why has he not been willing to compete OFF the ice? Being a good pro hockey player is not just a 8-9 month job with summers off. It's year round, and the 3-4 months of offseason matters just as much if not more.
 
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