Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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I posted this in one of the threads on the main boards, but I think it bears repeating here:

The difference bt Laf’s numbers on the PP with and without Trouba is fairly significant.

CF/60:
With Trouba: 74.26
Without Trouba: 113.13

FF/60:
With: 59.22
Without: 90.5

Shots For/60:
With: 43.24
Without: 55.31

Goals For/60:
With: 4.7
Without: 6.28

xGF/60:
With: 5.75
Without: 9.55
 
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You watch the games. You know on a good day Lafreniere gets 30 seconds a powerplay on a unit with 3 21 year old's, Goodrow and Trouba that cant get in the zone or win a faceoff. I wouldn't call that the best situation for producing, would you? Context matters.

It's a non functional scenario all around. I'm sure the stats are awful but I'm not sure it isn't just "one of those things."
 
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I posted this in one of the threads on the main boards, but I think it bears repeating here:

The difference bt Laf’s numbers on the PP with and without Trouba is fairly significant.

CF/60:
With Trouba: 74.26
Without Trouba: 113.13

FF/60:
With: 59.22
Without: 90.5

Shots For/60:
With: 43.24
Without: 55.31

Goals For/60:
With: 4.7
Without: 6.28

xGF/60:
With: 5.75
Without: 9.55

Does it blow your mind that one of the reasons we paid Trouba such a huge contract was because he ran a PP in Winnipeg?

Can't wait till we can shed his contract.
 
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Does it blow your mind that one of the reasons we paid Trouba such a huge contract was because he ran a PP in Winnipeg?

Can't wait till we can shed his contract.
I don’t care about trouba’s pp ability.
I’m fine with his salary if he can get back to the defensive ability he showed in 20-21.
I’m still thinking he was badly injured last year, and if he’s healthy I can see him getting back to that.
Trouba’s contract would’ve been fine if the cap had jumped 10 million or so since he signed it.
It’s the flat cap that’s the issue.
 
My issue w laffy is the comments and statements about him defending him are what you would hear for a top ten pick, not for an undisputed 1oa pick. The standards are high bc they should be. It feels like members of this board are uncomfortable keeping those high standards since we have rarely been able to draft at the top, but expectations of laffy SHOULD be high. We are three years in already, we are past coddling w this kid...

Yeah but we all agree he's a disappointment as a 1OA.

Citing Lafreniere in comparison to other 1OAs is water under the bridge at this point.

Like, if we all signed an affidavit acknowledging that Lafreniere is the worst 1OA of the modern era, can we put that context to bed?

The 1OA thing is done. He's a disappointment in that regard.

...

The "excuse-making" comes in now in reference to people who want to trade him for ten cents on the dollar, who claim he will only amount to "half," of Kreider's career, etc, etc.

The "excuse-making," is statistical comparisons that tend to tell a story that he's still likely to improve significantly and still likely to be a good NHL player.

How good, whether he will ever get to star status, and what we can get for him are all much better debates, but those all require the projection of his increased development, better deployment under a new coach, better role, increased minutes, etc, etc, etc.

I don’t care about trouba’s pp ability.
I’m fine with his salary if he can get back to the defensive ability he showed in 20-21.

His defensive ability in 20-21 still wasn't great. It was ok.

You can get a better defender than what Trouba did in 20-21 for half his salary still.
 
I posted this in one of the threads on the main boards, but I think it bears repeating here:

The difference bt Laf’s numbers on the PP with and without Trouba is fairly significant.

CF/60:
With Trouba: 74.26
Without Trouba: 113.13

FF/60:
With: 59.22
Without: 90.5

Shots For/60:
With: 43.24
Without: 55.31

Goals For/60:
With: 4.7
Without: 6.28

xGF/60:
With: 5.75
Without: 9.55
I’d love to see what a
Mika - ck - kakko
Laf - fox

Power play would look like
 
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I don't think he can't or won't.

My issue is with people saying it's just usage. It's not. Not even at ES. He played 15:13 a game this past year. Those are top six minutes. He just needs to be better.

I'm not saying you are. But everyone in this thread wants to be told they are right because of the stats when the real issue has always been having a coaching staff that has a plan.
 
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Laf needs to get a lot better on the powerplay and Trouba is also the worst PPQB in the league and would bomb the '84 Oilers.

I think both of those things are true.
100%
Jones or miller should be on pp2.
Pp 2 could even consider going 5 forwards.
But I’d like to see the kids get fox distributing to them.
 
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Laf needs to get a lot better on the powerplay and Trouba is also the worst PPQB in the league and would bomb the '84 Oilers.

I think both of those things are true.

Trouba was directly responsible for like 3 critical shorthanded goals in the 2022 playoffs, and Gallant's reaction the next season was to change nothing. Talk about putting your players in position to fail.
 
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I posted this in one of the threads on the main boards, but I think it bears repeating here:

The difference bt Laf’s numbers on the PP with and without Trouba is fairly significant.

CF/60:
With Trouba: 74.26
Without Trouba: 113.13

FF/60:
With: 59.22
Without: 90.5

Shots For/60:
With: 43.24
Without: 55.31

Goals For/60:
With: 4.7
Without: 6.28

xGF/60:
With: 5.75
Without: 9.55

That is surely because the times Laf was on the ice with Fox was the rare times they experimented with units and he was PP1 and not any indictment on Trouba's play. But, pretty stark difference in the results in a real role than the 20-30 second mop up role.
 
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I would give Fox all 2 minutes.

Cut into his PK time (good way to get hurt anyway) and give him time off in games that are not close.

You have the best PP weapon in the league right now not employed by the Edmonton Oilers. You should be squeezing every drop out of it.

2 minutes of PP time, 0 minutes of PK time. You can always adjust based on the situation and throw Jones out there if Fox needs a blow. I am more confident in Laviolette making these in-game adjustments than Uncle Fester
 
That is surely because the times Laf was on the ice with Fox was the rare times they experimented with units and he was PP1 and not any indictment on Trouba's play. But, pretty stark difference in the results in a real role than the 20-30 second mop up role.

My guess is that it’s a bit of both. Bc Trouba is definitely ass on the PP
 
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2 minutes of PP time, 0 minutes of PK time. You can always adjust based on the situation and throw Jones out there if Fox needs a blow. I am more confident in Laviolette making these in-game adjustments than Uncle Fester


Nah. He's a great penalty killer.

The 1st unit stays on for most the PP anyway and usually will only get off in mopup time when the PP is essentially over anyway
 
Does it blow your mind that one of the reasons we paid Trouba such a huge contract was because he ran a PP in Winnipeg?

Can't wait till we can shed his contract.

In fairness, PP strategy has evolved significantly over the last few years, and Winnipeg’s was considered old school even at that point
 
I think my point is being missed.

I just ran the data on EvolvingHockey.

Since 2008 (the furthest back I can go), 806 players have played at least 267 minutes on the powerplay. That's everyone who's played as much as Lafreniere has.

Out of 806, his 6 total points rank 806th.

Included in this sample, Luca Sbisa has 12 points. Chris Neil has 12. Miles Wood has 16. Jimmy Vesey has 17. Jeff Halpern has 17. Cal Clutterbuck has 18. Marc Staal has 18. Leo Komarov has 21. Taylor Pyatt has 19. Jesse Puljujarvi has 15.

This is a circus of busts, honest-to-god 4th liners, and defensive defensemen. They all have more powerplay points than Lafreniere in the same context.

Context matters, but he's literally the worst regular powerplay player since 2008. To say he needs to improve on the powerplay beyond how he's used is a take so cold it could freeze Hell.
I think its you that is missing the point honestly: its impossible to look good on the power play stat sheet if your shift is regularly 30 seconds, starting outside the O zone. I don't care if you have 3000 power play minutes. It's swell that those guys have more points, but really you aren't giving context on on shift length AND those are players with at LEAST as much as 267 minutes. I'm not sure what your maximum is, or if you did one, but if that's the MIN, I think its a good bet that most of those names have MORE minutes than that.

All of this changes nothing though. The point is we will not know until he actually plays normal power play shifts. How was his power play scoring in juniors? If it was trash there too, then you have a trend and a bit more weight on your opinion/projection.
 
Nah. He's a great penalty killer.

The 1st unit stays on for most the PP anyway and usually will only get off in mopup time when the PP is essentially over anyway

Laviolette needs to break up PP1 too. That should be part of it.

Unit 1
Kreider-Mika-Chytil-Kakko

Unit A
Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere-Othmann/Cuylle

Play them both the same amount. Stack them if you need a goal late or at an important point in the game. It's the best thing for all parties.
 
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Laviolette needs to break up PP1 too. That should be part of it.

Unit 1
Kreider-Mika-Chytil-Kakko

Unit A
Panarin-Trocheck-Lafreniere-Othmann/Cuylle

Play them both the same amount. Stack them if you need a goal late or at an important point in the game. It's the best thing for all parties.
Playing them the same time doesn’t really work. Most teams have a 75/25 split.
 
Playing them the same time doesn’t really work. Most teams have a 75/25 split.

You dont need to start the same unit on the ice every time. A completely even split is semantics. The NMC boys playing a minute 45 on every powerplay was an active detriment to the rest of the roster all of last year.
 
I think its you that is missing the point honestly: its impossible to look good on the power play stat sheet if your shift is regularly 30 seconds, starting outside the O zone. I don't care if you have 3000 power play minutes. It's swell that those guys have more points, but really you aren't giving context on on shift length AND those are players with at LEAST as much as 267 minutes. I'm not sure what your maximum is, or if you did one, but if that's the MIN, I think its a good bet that most of those names have MORE minutes than that.

All of this changes nothing though. The point is we will not know until he actually plays normal power play shifts. How was his power play scoring in juniors? If it was trash there too, then you have a trend and a bit more weight on your opinion/projection.
I'm not asking him to look good.

I'm asking him to look better than Luca Sbisa and Cal Clutterbuck.
 
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Trouba did not run the PP in WPG. He filled in one year when Byfuglien was out (18-19 and they were actually quite good). He was never intended to be their PP1 guy.
 
He's really not. It's by far the weakest aspect of his game.

That's not saying much. Weakest part of his game is still very strong compared to vast majority of other NHL dman.

He's the Rangers best penalty killing defenseman. He's amazing defensively, so of course he'll be good on the PK.
 
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