Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[mas0764]

What no one says when they compare him to CK is-- at the time,Chris was viewed as a fringe bust and definately an underperforming prospect-- it's only till recently he's changed that narrative around.

No, this isn't true.

21-22 year old Chris Kreider was viewed as an up and comer. It's not till he didn't progress past 50 points by age 24-25 or so that the narrative on him began to turn.

So essentially those who think they ae helping Laf by using the comparison are just actually arguing he's slightly better than a fringe bust, underperforming player.

I can't speak for everyone but I jumped in here the last page or so because someone foolishly said that we would all sign up for Lafreniere to equal half of Kreider's career. Lafreniere will most likely put up more points on average than Kreider, so no, we wouldn't all take that. Kreider is probably a floor for Lafreniere not a ceiling.

The crazy thing is that every time someone makes a ridiculous statement like "Lafreniere won't equal half of Kreider's career," or "we should dump him now for a third liner," or things like that, those things are quickly and easily refuted, and then someone always falls back on "but he's a disappointment as a 1OA."

Yeah, no one is arguing that. We all agree that so far he's a disappointment as a 1OA.

 

[mas0764]

Also unsaid in this (relatively silly) 21 year old Kreider versus 21 year old Lafreniere and projection of their full careers debate, is the fact that 21 year old Lafreniere's advanced stats, for as much as we complain about him, are also way better than Kreider's were in his 23 games at age 21.

 

[duhmetreE]

Laffy will have a much better career than Kreider....

if he puts down the Taco Bell and Mountain Dew

 

[mas0764]

Laffy will have a much better career than Kreider....

if he puts down the Taco Bell and Mountain Dew

And I suspect he will.

I remain disappointed in Lafreniere, that he didn't come in like a tornado, that he's not appearing that he will ever be a MacKinnon or Matthews level player. We were told we were getting that, or close to it, and apparently are not.

But listen, you also have to remember, some kids are just 18 year old kids and it makes no sense to lay a machismo "They have to be professionals and figure it out on their own as a teenager," trip on them. And the Rangers are sadly a team that historically trusts veterans to do their thing and gives them a long leash, and their last coach definitely had a huge part in enabling that. Not all kids thrive by being given a long leash to go hang themselves.

It's completely reasonable to expect that a 19-20 year old who maybe wasn't as mature as he needed to be will become more mature over time. That can both be a disappointing indictment of Lafreniere as the all-world talent we thought we were getting but also give us very reasonable hope that he will get better with the proper structure as many, many young hockey players have before him.

I still think he ends up better than Kreider, as you said. Other than Kreider's one 50-goal season he is really more like a 25-25 guy, or at least a sub 30-30 guy.

I think Lafreniere becomes at least a 30-30 guy.

 

[bhamill]

Also unsaid in this (relatively silly) 21 year old Kreider versus 21 year old Lafreniere and projection of their full careers debate, is the fact that 21 year old Lafreniere's advanced stats, for as much as we complain about him, are also way better than Kreider's were in his 23 games at age 21.

And it was Laf's D+3 as opposed to Kreider's D+4 because of the 6 month difference in birthdays relative to draft eligibility.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The only relevant Kreider - Laff comparison is, one works his ass off, the other doesn't. Put Kreider's work ethic into Laff's pudgy body and you'd have a dominant player.

 

[bhamill]

The only relevant Kreider - Laff comparison is, one works his ass off, the other doesn't. Put Kreider's work ethic into Laff's pudgy body and you'd have a dominant player.

I'm not sure there are many players who work their ass off compared to Kreider, he's a beast, I'd LOVE Laf to get to that level. I'm of the opinion he should be working harder, though realistically I have no idea what his planned off season regimen is or has been.

 

[mas0764]

The only relevant Kreider - Laff comparison is, one works his ass off, the other doesn't.

Clearly that's not true that its the only relevant comparison.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'm not sure there are many players who work their ass off compared to Kreider, he's a beast, I'd LOVE Laf to get to that level. I'm of the opinion he should be working harder, though realistically I have no idea what his planned off season regimen is or has been.

Work half as hard as he does then. At this point it's pretty clear he's not doing enough and it seems like its common knowledge around the league. People here are spending too much time watching stats and not paying attention to what he does on the ice, which is very little. Does he have a single trait that sticks out as being above average at this level? Skating, passing, shot, anything? Where's the drive and the desire to be great?

 

[bhamill]

Work half as hard as he does then. At this point it's pretty clear he's not doing enough and it seems like its common knowledge around the league. People here are spending too much time watching stats and not paying attention to what he does on the ice, which is very little. Does he have a single trait that sticks out as being above average at this level? Skating, passing, shot, anything? Where's the drive and the desire to be great?

No, I want him to work AS hard as. Seriously. I know it may be asking a LOT, but he's a f***ing 1OA. That's what I want.
When you say above average, do you mean above average as compared to veteran players/the whole league? Or above average compared to 21 year old NHLers? In either case probably his hitting. And maybe his 5v5 or "non powerplay" scoring? His ability to get in position for "garbage" goals?
I mean, really there's different arguments to be made if we are considering him a developing player as opposed to a finished product. I do not, in any way shape or form, believe he's close to a finished project yet.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

No, I want him to work AS hard as. Seriously. I know it may be asking a LOT, but he's a f***ing 1OA. That's what I want.
When you say above average, do you mean above average as compared to veteran players/the whole league? Or above average compared to 21 year old NHLers? In either case probably his hitting. And maybe his 5v5 or "non powerplay" scoring? His ability to get in position for "garbage" goals?
I mean, really there's different arguments to be made if we are considering him a developing player as opposed to a finished product. I do not, in any way shape or form, believe he's close to a finished project yet.

I don't think he's a finished product either and I hope a new coach will help spark him. But there's just nothing about his game right now that makes me go wow, he could be special.

 

[mas0764]

Work half as hard as he does then. At this point it's pretty clear he's not doing enough and it seems like its common knowledge around the league. People here are spending too much time watching stats and not paying attention to what he does on the ice, which is very little. Does he have a single trait that sticks out as being above average at this level? Skating, passing, shot, anything? Where's the drive and the desire to be great?

I mean, I think his shot and passing are both "above average," or better relative to the average NHL player. They look weak in comparison to the elite players.

I think the biggest thing about Lafreniere has been thought processing speed followed by skating/foot speed. I think those two things have held him back.

To that end, I agree he is partially responsible for not working hard enough.

I also think he is lost and hasn't gotten the right instruction and placement in a system that works.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I’m not sifting through a lot of the back and forth in here, but I’m sure everyone can agree that this is a very important offseason for Laf, and that he needs to put in significant work to elevate where he is from a physical standpoint. There really aren’t any excuses anymore to not come into camp faster and stronger.

The Rangers need to pull whatever connections they have and get this kid into the Biosteel camp and training with guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, and Sid this summer. He needs to see what level of work those guys put into their offseason to continually hone their craft and improve as players. It should be starting up soon. Make sure he’s there.

 

[bhamill]

I don't think he's a finished product either and I hope a new coach will help spark him. But there's just nothing about his game right now that makes me go wow, he could be special.

That's a fair subjective take.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I mean, I think his shot and passing are both "above average," or better relative to the average NHL player. They look weak in comparison to the elite players.

I think the biggest thing about Lafreniere has been thought processing speed followed by skating/foot speed. I think those two things have held him back.

To that end, I agree he is partially responsible for not working hard enough.

I also think he is lost and hasn't gotten the right instruction and placement in a system that works.

Are they though? Feels like he never uses his shot or definitely not enough. Passing maybe I could see. He does make a lot of nice little subtle plays along the boards that often go unnoticed I guess. I want him playing with better players next season and to do that, I think he needs to move to the right side. It's not like he's been lighting it up on the left the last few years.

 

[mas0764]

Are they though? Feels like he never uses his shot or definitely not enough. Passing maybe I could see. He does make a lot of nice little subtle plays along the boards that often go unnoticed I guess. I want him playing with better players next season and to do that, I think he needs to move to the right side. It's not like he's been lighting it up on the left the last few years.

I don't think he uses it enough but I think that stems from his indecision.

He had a very good wrister in juniors. I don't think it just disappeared. He has the ability to use it, but doesn't.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't think he uses it enough but I think that stems from his indecision.

He had a very good wrister in juniors. I don't think it just disappeared. He has the ability to use it, but doesn't.

All true.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I don't think he uses it enough but I think that stems from his indecision.

He had a very good wrister in juniors. I don't think it just disappeared. He has the ability to use it, but doesn't.

He’s also got a high end backhand, which is really hard to track for a goalie.

 

[JHS]

I'm not sure there are many players who work their ass off compared to Kreider, he's a beast, I'd LOVE Laf to get to that level. I'm of the opinion he should be working harder, though realistically I have no idea what his planned off season regimen is or has been.

Don’t worry- he’s only had 3 seasons to watch how hard Kreider works- maybe by season 5 it will click?!?

 

[bhamill]

His off season after the draft was COVID restricted and he had to work out in his garage. This will be his third off season after actually becoming part of the team and hopefully yes, with a bit of maturity and guidance he, again hopefully, takes it next level.
Yeah, I know it’s crazy to think a 21 year old might learn new shit. Might develop pro habits. Hahaha. Insanity!

 

[duhmetreE]

I’m not sifting through a lot of the back and forth in here, but I’m sure everyone can agree that this is a very important offseason for Laf, and that he needs to put in significant work to elevate where he is from a physical standpoint. There really aren’t any excuses anymore to not come into camp faster and stronger.

The Rangers need to pull whatever connections they have and get this kid into the Biosteel camp and training with guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, and Sid this summer. He needs to see what level of work those guys put into their offseason to continually hone their craft and improve as players. It should be starting up soon. Make sure he’s there.

McDavid is arguably the best player of all time and he still outworks everyone in the offseason.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Laf has a fat moon face and i think he's fooling a lot of people...but from what ive seen he's in perfectly fine physical shape and is actually pretty strong for his age.

 

[Mac n Gs]

McDavid is arguably the best player of all time and he still outworks everyone in the offseason.

Exactly and that’s why he’s so great; same for Sid and MacKinnon. That type of mentality can be infectious, and the Rangers need more of it. The guys in Vegas are super demanding too.

 

[AirGut]

Laf has a fat moon face and i think he's fooling a lot of people...but from what ive seen he's in perfectly fine physical shape and is actually pretty strong for his age.

does this look like a face that shows mercy?

 

[McRanger92]

I think Laviolette will be good for Laf and all the kids