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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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DanielBrassard said:
Not in love with the idea that an underwhelming, underperforming 21 year old thinks he has the cache to speak up about the coach and his issues with him, especially with the paragraph the preceded that.
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My biggest criticism of Lafrenière has always been that he acts like a star, without the performance to back it up.

I get he was a 1st overall pick, but the goofy dances in the tunnel, the routine of sitting on the bench before warm ups (soaking it in) etc, is all fine and dandy if you put up 90 points.

If Tim Stützle did that, I'd be totally okay with it.

But Lafrenière is pretty much invisible 70% of the time. He needs to act like a pro.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
My biggest criticism of Lafrenière has always been that he acts like a star, without the performance to back it up.

I get he was a 1st overall pick, but the goofy dances in the tunnel, the routine of sitting on the bench before warm ups (soaking it in) etc, is all fine and dandy if you put up 90 points.

If Tim Stützle did that, I'd be totally okay with it.

But Lafrenière is pretty much invisible 70% of the time. He needs to act like a pro.
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Yup I'm with you there. It's probably not my biggest criticism lol but it is irksome to be honest.
 
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duhmetreE said:
It was obvious he was Gallant's whipping boy. From what we've heard, he doesn't even talk to the kids. Benching them or scratching them without an explanation/communication is bad.

Laffy needs to get his shit together. Spend the summer with Kreider or with a Personal Trainer. I would say nearly most of the team is not serious about conditioning and training. They've been caught up in the lifestyle aspect
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The 2018 Winter Classic tv show (The shitty one made by NBC) was very eye-opening for me as a fan. When you see other teams where the veterans take youngsters under their wing, even taking them in (Couturier and Schenn living with Daniel Brière, Marner and Matthews living with Patrick Marleau etc), then there's the Rangers where Kevin Hayes, Brady Skjei and Jimmy Vesey were shacking up in some bachelor pad, eating pizza and take-away every day....

Yeah, the contrast is very noticeable.
 
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UnSandvich said:
Correct me if im wrong, but this is the same moron who said the Rangers should trade Lafreniere for Garland, correct?
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Don't know. Nor do I really care.

Information and opinion are 2 separate streams of articles for me, even from the same author.

What matters to me here is the information that Lafrenière is simultaneously not meeting the Rangers' expectations in terms of dedication to getting better, and being critically vocal about the head coach.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
Not in love with the idea that an underwhelming, underperforming 21 year old thinks he has the cache to speak up about the coach and his issues with him, especially with the paragraph the preceded that.
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Funny, was just thinking this. Laf has been very inconsistent and when he is not scoring or producing he wears his invisibility cloak more than Harry Potter does. He should not be speaking up about the coach, especially when it was said he is not putting the work in as much as the organization wants. Now if this was just a Gallant issue and was being unfairly singled out, then it’s different, but I don‘t see that.

At least Kakko is throwing his body around, killing penalties and putting the effort, he is just allergic to points, lol.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
Not in love with the idea that an underwhelming, underperforming 21 year old thinks he has the cache to speak up about the coach and his issues with him, especially with the paragraph the preceded that.
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He's one of the most important pieces we have with regards to the future of this team and likely one of the most important voices in the process.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
My biggest criticism of Lafrenière has always been that he acts like a star, without the performance to back it up.

I get he was a 1st overall pick, but the goofy dances in the tunnel, the routine of sitting on the bench before warm ups (soaking it in) etc, is all fine and dandy if you put up 90 points.

If Tim Stützle did that, I'd be totally okay with it.

But Lafrenière is pretty much invisible 70% of the time. He needs to act like a pro.
Click to expand...

Ryan Reaves does that stuff too. Who really cares?

Leonardo87 said:
Funny, was just thinking this. Laf has been very inconsistent and when he is not scoring or producing he wears his invisibility cloak more than Harry Potter does. He should not be speaking up about the coach, especially when it was said he is not putting the work in as much as the organization wants. Now if this was just a Gallant issue and was being unfairly singled out, then it’s different, but I don‘t see that.

At least Kakko is throwing his body around, killing penalties and putting the effort, he is just allergic to points, lol.
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The point of the exit interviews is for him to speak up about that sort of thing. He absolutely should mention his opinion on the coach especially if he's asked about it.
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
He's one of the most important pieces we have with regards to the future of this team and likely one of the most important voices in the process.
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3 years into his NHL career, the potential impact of Lafrenière is diminishing further and further.

Sure, there's still room to improve, but what concerns me with him is that when he isn't on the scoresheet, he's pretty much invisible, unlike Kakko or Chytil.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
3 years into his NHL career, the potential impact of Lafrenière is diminishing further and further.

Sure, there's still room to improve, but what concerns me with him is that when he isn't on the scoresheet, he's pretty much invisible, unlike Kakko or Chytil.
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Thats not true at all, not sure why this narrative keeps popping up. He has improved a lot defensively and is one of the few players in our top 9 that actually throws a hit.
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
Thats not true at all, not sure why this narrative keeps popping up. He has improved a lot defensively and is one of the few players in our top 9 that actually throws a hit.
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I don't care about hits. It's a flawed stat. Show me how efficient those hits were. Hits in a vacuum is just a stat to show how often a player is on the ice without possession.

Lafrenière is lazy.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Hits in a vacuum are a flawed stat. Hits are important, IF they are effective.
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Lafreniere's hits are useless i guess then, may as well tell him to stop doing it. He's just out there trying to hurt himself. Every stat in a vacuum is flawed, that "in a vacuum" statement comes up around here too much and it means nothing. You can't isolate one part of a game or stat and disgard it because without anything else it would be useless.
 
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Shesterkybomb said:
Lafreniere's hits are useless i guess then, may as well tell him to stop doing it.
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If Laf, a player not exactly fleet of foot, throws a hit that doesn't have an impact on the play, but it takes him out of position, and then this couples with his foot-speed issues makes it harder for him to be in position to provide a positive impact either defensively or offensively, then yes it's pretty useless.

Or, as Amazing Kreiderman basically said; hits can be useful, but not all hits are useful...
 
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mike14 said:
If Laf, a player not exactly fleet of foot, throws a hit that doesn't have an impact on the play, but it takes him out of position, and then this couples with his foot-speed issues makes it harder for him to be in position to provide a positive impact either defensively or offensively, then yes it's pretty useless.

Or, as Amazing Kreiderman basically said; hits can be useful, but not all hits are useful...
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Pretty much.

Thanks.
 
mike14 said:
If Laf, a player not exactly fleet of foot, throws a hit that doesn't have an impact on the play, but it takes him out of position, and then this couples with his foot-speed issues makes it harder for him to be in position to provide a positive impact either defensively or offensively, then yes it's pretty useless.

Or, as Amazing Kreiderman basically said; hits can be useful, but not all hits are useful...
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You're making up scenarios that haven't played out very much. Lafreniere has hit with purpose, the Lafreniere hate has to ease up, people pick apart anything positive thats said about him. The narrative of him being slow is played out as well.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman said:
Show me the data.
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We don't really have that kind of data yet, or at least, if we do it's not publicly available unfortunately. Hopefully with player tracking, that'll change soon.

With that said, I would argue that citing his hits is a fair counter to a claim that a player is lazy. If your actual argument is that you don't think he impacts the game enough, vs. "He's lazy", I think you should specify that.

EDIT: To be clear, I really do hope that we can get a publicly available way of charting a given player's actual effectiveness when it comes to driving possession with physicality. But afaik, we're not there yet
 
Shesterkybomb said:
You show me the data of how his hits are useless.
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Show me where I said hits are useless.

What I said was that hits as a stat is flawed. That hits in a vacuum don't tell the whole story.

Amazing Kreiderman said:
Hits in a vacuum are a flawed stat. Hits are important, IF they are effective.
Click to expand...

Let me quote my own message here where I LITERALLY say that hits are important, if they are effective.

UnSandvich said:
We don't really have that kind of data yet, or at least, if we do it's not publicly available unfortunately. Hopefully with player tracking, that'll change soon.

With that said, I would argue that citing his hits is a fair counter to a claim that a player is lazy. If your actual argument is that you don't think he impacts the game enough, vs. "He's lazy", I think you should specify that.

EDIT: To be clear, I really do hope that we can get a publicly available way of charting a given player's actual effectiveness when it comes to driving possession with physicality. But afaik, we're not there yet
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A report from a reputable source (The Athletic) stating the Rangers aren't happy with his level of dedication is reason enough to justify calling him lazy.
 
Shesterkybomb said:
You're making up scenarios that haven't played out very much. Lafreniere has hit with purpose, the Lafreniere hate has to ease up, people pick apart anything positive thats said about him. The narrative of him being slow is played out as well.
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Eye test wise id say my scenario occurs about as often as a Laf hit that changes a play.
That's not a Laf thing that's an NHL thing, but it does mean that bringing up his hit stats is kind of pointless.

There may be a stat that shows turnovers form hits but I haven't seen it.
At a guess I'd say about 85% of hits in an an NHL game don't really 'do' anything. Players know they are going to get as it's a physical game and their all wearing 20 pounds of armour. Unless you're catching players in open ice (rare), or hitting dirty the hit itself is less important than just being in the zone quickly enough to disrupt the pass of the other team, so the power of the hit itself isn't really important.
You can make the argument that being constantly hit wears you out (although logically it would wear out the hitter as well) but I'd be pretty confident modern traing regimes factor that in
 
3. to 3.5
every dollar over is overpayment.
He creates nothing.
Almost every point he has was created by someone else.
And hes talented enough to cash in.
 
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