Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[McRanger92]

I don't really agree with this though...it wasn't executed properly because it wasn't really coached into them. It was a "I want you to play this way, you go out and figure out how to execute it"
And yeah the team isn't your typical team to do that but it doesn't really require specific players to do either. You can get in fast on the forecheck and disrupt the breakout and force turnovers without being gritty board grinders.
But it just requires everyone on the same page and executing a plan, not freelancing and making it up as they go

A lot of players on this team look slow because they're always gliding and reacting instead of executing a game plan with their teammates

I couldnt agree with this more. Everyone was puck watching because they didn't know where their teammates were going to be. When the entire offensive system is telling the veterans to make a play and their teammates to read off it, that's a clear lack of hands on coaching. The team needs a coach to implement a structure and everyone will improve.

 

[haohmaru]

Non PP Points (Who am I)

Age / Games / Goals / Assists / Points

18 / 82 / 16 / 30 / 46
19 / 64 / 11 / 20 / 31
20 / 72 / 14 / 22 / 36
21 / 82 / 14 / 25 / 39

This is to provide some hope for everyone trading Lafreniere this summer.

 

[mas0764]

We give up, who is it?

 

[haohmaru]

Mackinnon

 

[mas0764]

Right I’ve said I think he can still turn into a decent facsimile of that. Tough to call 90 points right now but 70+? Sure.

 

[McRanger92]

Mackinnon

So you're sayin the amateur scouts on this board are wrong that players don't stop developing at 21? Those types of radical ideas wont be met kindly here.

 

[CLW]

Non PP Points (Who am I)

Age / Games / Goals / Assists / Points

18 / 82 / 16 / 30 / 46
19 / 64 / 11 / 20 / 31
20 / 72 / 14 / 22 / 36
21 / 82 / 14 / 25 / 39

This is to provide some hope for everyone trading Lafreniere this summer.

So you're saying Laffy needs his own Bednar to coach him to superstardom.

 

[ReddestRum]

Sigh.

We're comparing young Laf to young Mack now. I wonder how many other fanbases creep on our board and just have a sensible chuckle at the conversations that go on with Laf and the comparisons that are made.

There isn't even a f***ing inch of Laf that resembles even 18 year old Mack. Period. End of story. STOP.

Do you know when the moment Laf becomes the player we need here? When we stop, as a fanbase, wishing for him to get more ice time and PP time to just inflate his points rather than a unified consensus that he actually belongs at the top.

Don't you guys get tired searching for every little EV stat to compare our disappointment to superstars with cup rings??

 

[haohmaru]

Sigh.

We're comparing young Laf to young Mack now. I wonder how many other fanbases creep on our board and just have a sensible chuckle at the conversations that go on with Laf and the comparisons that are made.

Sigh.

Not comparing McKinnon to Lafreniere on any level other than he was a "disappointing" 1OA that didn't figure it out until a few years into his career.

You're drawing conclusions to arguments that haven't been made. At all.

There isn't even a f***ing inch of Laf that resembles even 18 year old Mack. Period. End of story. STOP.

Do you know when the moment Laf becomes the player we need here? When we stop, as a fanbase, wishing for him to get more ice time and PP time to just inflate his points rather than a unified consensus that he actually belongs at the top.

Don't you guys get tired searching for every little EV stat to compare our disappointment to superstars with cup rings??

See above. You're overreacting to something that was never said.

 

[bhamill]

Sigh.

We're comparing young Laf to young Mack now. I wonder how many other fanbases creep on our board and just have a sensible chuckle at the conversations that go on with Laf and the comparisons that are made.

There isn't even a f***ing inch of Laf that resembles even 18 year old Mack. Period. End of story. STOP.

Do you know when the moment Laf becomes the player we need here? When we stop, as a fanbase, wishing for him to get more ice time and PP time to just inflate his points rather than a unified consensus that he actually belongs at the top.

Don't you guys get tired searching for every little EV stat to compare our disappointment to superstars with cup rings??

Why is it so crazy to compare the stats of a player we are HOPING can reach a high bar after being a high pick, with the same age stats of a high pick that DID reach a high bar? I mean if people are saying "this kid is the next MacKinnon, book it" I'd get your tact, but just saying "hey these sort of things are possibilities" what's the big problem? I mean we are FANS, no?

 

[ReddestRum]

Sigh.

Not comparing McKinnon to Lafreniere on any level other than he was a "disappointing" 1OA that didn't figure it out until a few years into his career.

You're drawing conclusions to arguments that haven't been made. At all.



See above. You're overreacting to something that was never said.

Who said I was talking about you?

 

[haohmaru]

Who said I was talking about you?

Please clarify who you were speaking to then. Was there a comparison made elsewhere?

 

[ReddestRum]

Why is it so crazy to compare the stats of a player we are HOPING can reach a high bar after being a high pick, with the same age stats of a high pick that DID reach a high bar? I mean if people are saying "this kid is the next MacKinnon, book it" I'd get your tact, but just saying "hey these sort of things are possibilities" what's the big problem? I mean we are FANS, no?

Sorry, but the skeptics have just as much right and probably more merit.

Laf will be 22 at the start of the next season and will be going into D4. We, as fans, have been hearing the exact same thing since he started with this team. If I typed in next year, still developing, and just a kid, it would take me right to this thread.

Mack reached that bar in his rookie season and probably would've surpassed in the next few years if he didn't get hurt.

But it's not like you're even comparing skill, but some of you guys continuously cherry-pick EV stats and say, "Yup. He could be exactly like this guy!" Because Mack scored a comparable amount of EV points being a f***ing FIRST LINE CENTER as Laf being a f***ing THIRD LINE WING. Mack, as a kid, still had the more difficult task up front every night against the NHL's best, but just because the EV points look the same, you want to compare.

You really can't see how just much all this just looks like cope?

We all have high hopes for our 1OA, but hope doesn't trump facts in this game.

 

[Ruggs225]

Sorry, but the skeptics have just as much right and probably more merit.

Laf will be 22 at the start of the next season and will be going into D4. We, as fans, have been hearing the exact same thing since he started with this team. If I typed in next year, still developing, and just a kid, it would take me right to this thread.

Mack reached that bar in his rookie season and probably would've surpassed in the next few years if he didn't get hurt.

But it's not like you're even comparing skill, but some of you guys continuously cherry-pick EV stats and say, "Yup. He could be exactly like this guy!" Because Mack scored a comparable amount of EV points being a f***ing FIRST LINE CENTER as Laf being a f***ing THIRD LINE WING. Mack, as a kid, still had the more difficult task up front every night against the NHL's best, but just because the EV points look the same, you want to compare.

You really can't see how just much all this just looks like cope?

We all have high hopes for our 1OA, but hope doesn't trump facts in this game.

Mac was not their first line center his first couple years. He was their third line center

Avs had Duchene and ROR as their top two. And you bet your ass that ROR had the toughest matchups, not Mac.

He probably wasnt their top line center until year 3 or 4 actually. And even those two years Duchene was the there.

As for injuries he played 82, 64, 72, 82 his first 4 years. So yeah he had some, but not an absurd amount.

 

[Raspewtin]

MacKinnon literally stepped on NHL ice for the first time a top 5 skater in the world holy f*** this comparison sucks

 

[mas0764]

Yeah, the thing about this is that Mackinnon wasn't Mackinnon, so we don't need to be reminded that Laf isn't MacKinnon.

Obviously we are saying all those skills that you don't see him having, they can still improve, and probably will improve. The question is to what degree.

 

[haohmaru]

MacKinnon literally stepped on NHL ice for the first time a top 5 skater in the world holy f*** this comparison sucks

The comparison isn't meant to be a player vs. player comparison, it's meant to be a "hey look at the jump McKinnon took from age 18-21 to 22+." observation.

It's more for the people that are eying Montreal's 5th OA pick and thinking about send Lafreniere there and throwing in the towel.

Nobody is confusing Lafreniere with McKinnon.

 

[duhmetreE]

I want him to be somewhere in between Sam Bennett and Tkachuk, stylistically.

It will take him digging in and getting better physically. Strength, explosiveness and conditioning. It's something that's easily attainable IF he works at it.

Bennett took off real late. Stuck in Calgary's bottom6. Tkachuk took off at 21. There needs to be a step in the right direction next season.

 

[haohmaru]

I want him to be somewhere in between Sam Bennett and Tkachuk, stylistically.

It will take him digging in and getting better physically. Strength, explosiveness and conditioning. It's something that's easily attainable IF he works at it.

Bennett took off real late. Stuck in Calgary's bottom6. Tkachuk took off at 21. There needs to be a step in the right direction next season.

There are tons of guys (look at Marchand) who developed later on in their careers. The thing that's concerned me about Lafreniere is you really don't see any "flashes of brilliance". Hopefully he figures it out and, hopefully, the Rangers remain patient.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Sigh.

We're comparing young Laf to young Mack now. I wonder how many other fanbases creep on our board and just have a sensible chuckle at the conversations that go on with Laf and the comparisons that are made.

There isn't even a f***ing inch of Laf that resembles even 18 year old Mack. Period. End of story. STOP.

Do you know when the moment Laf becomes the player we need here? When we stop, as a fanbase, wishing for him to get more ice time and PP time to just inflate his points rather than a unified consensus that he actually belongs at the top.

Don't you guys get tired searching for every little EV stat to compare our disappointment to superstars with cup rings??

Mackinnon was the level of player laf was compared to (not stylistically) pre-draft.
He wasnt a crosby or mcdavid, but he was a mackinnon.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I want him to be somewhere in between Sam Bennett and Tkachuk, stylistically.

It will take him digging in and getting better physically. Strength, explosiveness and conditioning. It's something that's easily attainable IF he works at it.

Bennett took off real late. Stuck in Calgary's bottom6. Tkachuk took off at 21. There needs to be a step in the right direction next season.

Lafy sticks up for teammates and himself so that’s a good sign. Imagine if the leaders on this team actually did that. I can see Lafy having a mean streak but he needs to get stronger faster tougher in my opinion and maybe learn from Kreider to crash the net. That cant hurt if he had that aspect in his game

 

[LokiDog]

Sigh.

We're comparing young Laf to young Mack now. I wonder how many other fanbases creep on our board and just have a sensible chuckle at the conversations that go on with Laf and the comparisons that are made.

There isn't even a f***ing inch of Laf that resembles even 18 year old Mack. Period. End of story. STOP.

Do you know when the moment Laf becomes the player we need here? When we stop, as a fanbase, wishing for him to get more ice time and PP time to just inflate his points rather than a unified consensus that he actually belongs at the top.

Don't you guys get tired searching for every little EV stat to compare our disappointment to superstars with cup rings??

I mean this is the truth. We’re looking at points to say the production was similar, and that’s valid. AND maybe Laf finds “his” game at the NHL level and puts it together and even becomes a 70+ point player. It’s possible. I realllllllly hope it happens because this is the hand we’ve been dealt.

But at the same time, it is absolutely silly to do these numerical comparisons without acknowledging that with players like Mack EVERYONE could see it coming. Does that mean everyone thought he’d become a 100 point player? No, of course people were questioning him after a few seasons, but the difference is I don’t think ANYONE was questioning whether or not Mack had the talent to become a 70 point player and legitimate first line talent. It was evident. It was tangible. It was obvious.

With Laf, the difference isn’t so simple as comparing numbers. The difference is, watching Lafreniere it’s really difficult to say whether he’s going to be a 40-50 point middle six player or if he’ll figure it out and become a genuine top six player. That was NEVER in question with Mack because the tools were incredibly clear to see. I don’t mind the premise… Laf could figure it out and be anything from a 40-50 point complimentary middle six player to a 70+ point eventual first liner. I won’t argue that. The difference is still also valid. Mack clearly, blatantly, obviously and abundantly had the tools and skill to be the player he currently is from day one. Laf, right now, has yet to show that level.

 

[mas0764]

Lafreniere is already a 40 point middle sixer though (basically).

 

[LokiDog]

Lafreniere is already a 40 point middle sixer though (basically).

And the jump from 39 points to over 50 points is still a significant step that he hasn’t exactly shown is a given. I do think 60 points is realistic. It’s disappointing for a very hyped 1OA, but also achievable and not a “bad” player by any means. But what I meant much more specifically was that Mack stepped into the NHL and you could SEE how good he was. Everyone knew he would be a first liner. Maybe that was gonna be a 70+ point first liner before he REALLY took off, but it was impossible to watch Mack and not see the oozing potential. With Laf it’s difficult to watch and see where the extra 20+ points necessarily come from at this point because he isn’t oozing anything. Again, I think the premise has validity, but there is still something to be said for the fact that you could see the player Mack was capable of becoming right from the first shift.

 

[ReddestRum]

I mean this is the truth. We’re looking at points to say the production was similar, and that’s valid. AND maybe Laf finds “his” game at the NHL level and puts it together and even becomes a 70+ point player. It’s possible. I realllllllly hope it happens because this is the hand we’ve been dealt. But at the same time, it is absolutely silly to do these numerical comparisons without acknowledging that with players like Mack EVERYONE could see it coming. Does that mean everyone thought he’d become a 100 point player? No, of course people were questioning him after a few seasons, but the difference is I don’t think ANYONE was questioning whether or not Mack had the talent to become a 70 point player and legitimate first line talent. It was evident. It was tangible. It was obvious. With Laf, the difference isn’t so simple as comparing numbers. The difference is, watching Lafreniere it’s really difficult to say whether he’s going to be a 40-50 point middle six player or if he’ll figure it out and become a genuine top six player. That was NEVER in question with Mack because the tools were incredibly clear to see. I don’t mind the premise… Laf could figure it out and be anything from a 40-50 point complimentary middle six player to a 70+ point eventual first liner. I won’t argue that. The difference is still also valid. Mack clearly, blatantly, obviously and abundantly had the tools and skill to be the player he currently is from day one. Laf, right now, has yet to show that level.

Wanting Laf to follow in the footsteps of other great players is fine, but the EV stat comparisons against other superstars drive me insane.

When you take players like Hughes, Mack and basically cut all their PP points out (even if they 110% belong on that PP) then fine. Once this happens people are like, "Ok, now that we've taken away their PP points, their EV stats are VERY comparable, that means our boy Laf is up to snuff at EV." LOL. No. He isn't. None of our kids are.

Scoring 40 EV points as a 1st liner is very different than scoring 40 EV points as a 3rd liner. Switch out the 1st line for the kid line, do they even score the points they did this season against other 1st line talent? I say not a snowballs chance in hell they do. Not even close. You just can't ignore the fact that superstars put up EV points against opposing superstars and our kid line is putting points up against 3rd liners (and barely looking good at it either). They don't look like they could keep up with or even outplay other top lines.