Toggle sidebar

Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’ll say the ECF this year shows me the teams priority should be speed and forecheck. Laf’s entire off season training should be speed. We don’t care if you don’t shoot the puck once this summer. Come to camp ready to fly. Same for Kakko, and the vets, Fox, everyone.

Then we need a coach who wants his players HUNGRY. The ECF, despite going 3.5 games worth of ice time in only 2 games, has been break-neck fast and I would be very… unexcited if we were playing one of those teams right now. And with Carolina’s injuries, it’s also clear that it’s 100% as much a mentality and full buy in from the players as it is individual speed.

But you need to get pucks in behind defenses and get on top of them instantly. Everyone needs to be willing to crash and bang. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to be a skilless grinder, but it does mean that even Panarin, or whoever else is a finesse guy, needs to at least be willing to go to the corner full speed and harass the defender. Stick, body, just positioning… it doesn’t matter. Get in HARD after pucks shift after shift. That needs to be the message. That needs to be the culture. And the kids need to know that their success is going to be predicated on getting pucks behind the D and then not giving them any time to handle it. Period.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Gordon Bombay, Shadowtron, Filip Chytil and 6 others
ReddestRum said:
One thing I'm curious about that the Laf crowd has been attached to lately, is why we trade away players and they do well elsewhere or that it is a cardinal sin to trade away young players.

Let me ask you, with the current core we have, with the contracts we have, with the NMC's that are attached to those contracts, are we chasing another cup run or are we in a full rebuild? There's no in-between, because in-between is useless for teams and they neither make it far into the playoffs or get to build a team from the bottom up.
Click to expand...

Trimmed to save some space. The team has too much talent to go full rebuild, with more young talent on the way.

The flaw in your logic is that the only alternative to "full rebuild" is doubling down on the big contracts that we currently have. The reasons that logic is flawed are:

1- As we've seen over the last two playoffs, that core isn't enough.
2- Because of the construction of the team, there's no money to add anything big to that core.
3- We can always explore moving one of the big contracts despite the NMC.

You mention that moving a young player with talent is 50/50 as far as breaking out. Moving a player with a NMC is pretty common as well. People act like players never waive NMCs. They waive all the time. The NMC is about control over where they move. I just think that moving Bread (or retaining and moving him for a quality return) is the best way to move forward with our core without needing a full re-build. Replacing Bread with, say, a speedy or a heavy/grinding top 6 RW would balance the lines out far better. It would also open up space for a guy like Othmann or Cuylle in the bottom six, AND open up some cap space to address our LD issues.
 
ReddestRum said:
TBF, Trocheck was a massive upgrade over Strome. Just for his F/O win percentage alone. He was the only person on the team with wins over 50% in the season. 56.1% to be exact. Chy was at 39.8%. Zibby was 49.5%. Goodrow was 45.9%.

I might be crazy here, but if he wants to be a Top 6 C, you'd want that percentage up way higher than the 30 percentile, no?

I think the same rules apply when we talk about kids in the Top 6. If you want to play in the Top 6 you've got to show you're dominating in the bottom 6. It just doesn't get easier for the kids putting them in the Top 6 with top minutes, because ultimately they will be playing opposite legit superstar lines.
Click to expand...

I don't dislike Trocheck. I think it's a nice luxury to have a faceoff specialist at the ready, and he's definitely better than Strome. I just think that, if you gave Chytil his minutes and PP time, Chytil would have scored around the same rate and, with additional reps, would have possibly improved his faceoff percentage (Chytil has games where he's 0-10 of faceoffs and games where he has the highest % on the team--I think he figures it out by the time he's in his prime). Given Chytil's growth this year, I think I would have rather spent Trocheck's money on a LD or a speedy RW instead.

Re: your last paragraph, that works for guys who are drafted later (including Chytil, though I would argue that he'd earned at least an opportunity coming in to this year). For top 3 picks? Those are more rare (particularly for the Rangers). You plug a top 3 pick into the top 6 and deal with the growing pains. It will suck for a year or two sometimes (see NJ and Hughes, or Colorado and MacKinnon), but you do it because you know they have the talent to BE "the guy" and you don't want them to lose that mind-set while they adjust to the NHL. That's been the way to develop top picks for ages. The Rangers thought they were smarter than the world and chose to do it their own way. It hasn't worked. It's time to go back to the tried and tested method and hope we can salvage what we can from them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ReddestRum
LokiDog said:
But you need to get pucks in behind defenses and get on top of the instantly. Everyone needs to be willing to crash and bang. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to be a skilless grinder, but it does mean that even Panarin, or whoever else is a finesse guy, needs to at least be willing to go to the corner full speed and harass the defender. Stick, body, just positioning… it doesn’t matter. Get in HARD after pucks shift after shift. That needs to be the message. That needs to be the culture. And the kids need to know that their success is going to be predicated on getting pucks behind the D and then not giving them any time to handle it. Period.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you, but I also don't see the bold ever happening. Panarin from his first two seasons here is dead and gone. I'd hoped he would eventually get over the whole Wilson thing, but he's been playing scared perimeter hockey ever since that injury. It's who he is now. Wilson broke him. He's basically a rich man's Zherdev now, and it's a shame, because he was an absolute joy to watch his first two seasons here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Galvatron, LokiDog and RagFinMet
I think people are being pretty reductive when they use terms like “the Laf crowd” or “the cult of Laf.” All of us are just NYR fans. Some of us think we’d be better off trading our young players to cut our losses, and others think we’d be better off holding on to them because there is no reason they can’t still reach, or come close to, their potential, and we would not get appropriate VALUE for them in a trade right now. I mean people who want to trade off the young players get told they are rooting for these players to fail and that’s no better than the “cult of Laf” nonsense. It’s really no more than a matter of some of us viewing trading the young players as recouping whatever we can, and some of us viewing it as selling low and possibly disastrously so. And we all have our reasons.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shadowtron, UnSandvich and Maliks PlusMinus
LokiDog said:
I’ll say the ECF this year shows me the teams priority should be speed and forecheck. Laf’s entire off season training should be speed. We don’t care if you don’t shoot the puck once this summer. Come to camp ready to fly. Same for Kakko, and the vets, Fox, everyone.

Then we need a coach who wants his players HUNGRY. The ECF, despite going 3.5 games worth of ice time in only 2 games, has been break-neck fast and I would be very… unexcited if we were playing one of those teams right now. And with Carolina’s injuries, it’s also clear that it’s 100% as much a mentality and full buy in from the players as it is individual speed.

But you need to get pucks in behind defenses and get on top of the instantly. Everyone needs to be willing to crash and bang. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to be a skilless grinder, but it does mean that even Panarin, or whoever else is a finesse guy, needs to at least be willing to go to the corner full speed and harass the defender. Stick, body, just positioning… it doesn’t matter. Get in HARD after pucks shift after shift. That needs to be the message. That needs to be the culture. And the kids need to know that their success is going to be predicated on getting pucks behind the D and then not giving them any time to handle it. Period.
Click to expand...
I think the thing we've pointed out in various threads is that Gallant wanted to play a fast north south forecheck game that you describe but his failing was not coaching the details and structure that the players need to make that effective. You don't even have to be super fast to play fast but if every tansition upt he ice is a "ok do I pass this puck do I try to carry it over the blueline do I dump it now" and your teammates are watching you going "ok what's he going to do what do I need to do" then everyone's just kinda screwing around and then when the puck gets dumped behind the D there's no one to go forecheck and retrieve it in time and no one to help support them

"puck in behind the D go get it play fast" doesn't work if it's not also coordinated by the whole team, you'll just end up with one guy in too late to actually forecheck enough and everyone else still at the top of the zone and easy breakouts for the other team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TopShelfSnipes, savebyrichter94 and LokiDog
Levitate said:
I think the thing we've pointed out in various threads is that Gallant wanted to play a fast north south forecheck game that you describe but his failing was not coaching the details and structure that the players need to make that effective. You don't even have to be super fast to play fast but if every tansition upt he ice is a "ok do I pass this puck do I try to carry it over the blueline do I dump it now" and your teammates are watching you going "ok what's he going to do what do I need to do" then everyone's just kinda screwing around and then when the puck gets dumped behind the D there's no one to go forecheck and retrieve it in time and no one to help support them

"puck in behind the D go get it play fast" doesn't work if it's not also coordinated by the whole team, you'll just end up with one guy in too late to actually forecheck enough and everyone else still at the top of the zone and easy breakouts for the other team.
Click to expand...

Sure, but it’s also not a complex system to execute. Unless you have numbers for an odd man rush, the puck is going deep and all three forwards are going north with speed after it. The center can swing higher and not go below the dots on the forecheck and the wingers are going to the corners to establish the forecheck. Hit the red line, get the puck in deep, all three forwards are flying in after it. Only carry it if you have numbers or the puck carrier has a good opportunity to beat his man.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bleedblue94
5D7DE927-3A48-4DA5-A190-2A4EAD102DA6.jpeg

Should we chip in and get it for Laf?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: will1066, RagFinMet, Filip Chytil and 5 others
LokiDog said:
Sure, but it’s also not a complex system to execute. Unless you have numbers for an odd man rush, the puck is going deep and all three forwards are going north with speed after it. The center can swing higher and not go below the dots on the forecheck and the wingers are going to the corners to establish the forecheck. Hit the red line, get the puck in deep, all three forwards are flying in after it. Only carry it if you have numbers or the puck carrier has a good opportunity to beat his man.
Click to expand...
It's a simple system to execute properly - and it was never executed properly under Gallant's watch - but it was the wrong system for this team. It turns everything into a board battle and is generally meant for bigger, physical teams.

Skilled teams are routinely able to attack the neutral zone with speed, backing off defenders, gaining zone entry, and creating space through drop passes and puck support once they gain the blueline. I would've wanted to see that, but instead we got 90's tactics that weren't even implemented properly with all 3 forwards stopping at the blueline as Levitate noted before the puck was dumped in uselessly to a D that immediately faced a very limited amount of pressure (if it wasn't turned over at the blueline first).
 
  • Like
Reactions: duhmetreE and LokiDog
Filthy Dangles said:
???

Are the Tkachuks not skinny-fat and not fast or great skaters overall?
Click to expand...

Matt Tkachuk’s scouting reports always had him as a slightly above average top speed who lacked a good first step, and while he doesn’t strike me as fast in a straight line, his lateral mobility and quickness has obviously become a strength. Laf should be looking at Tkachuk’s game closely. I don’t think it’s in his DNA to be as determined but it’s still a model for a player like him. Tkachuk creates separation with his edges and quick lateral movement down low all game long and is tough to contain. He also plays 2 minute shifts - Laf would be so gassed he accidentally swallowed his bubble gum and choked to death.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: RagFinMet, PANARIN BREAD FAN, Galvatron and 3 others
LokiDog said:
Matt Tkachuk’s scouting reports always had him as a slightly above average top speed who lacked a good first step, and while he doesn’t strike me as fast in a straight line, his lateral mobility and quickness has obviously become a strength. Laf should be looking at Tkachuk’s game closely. I don’t think it’s in his DNA to be as determined but it’s still a model for a player like him. Tkachuk creates separation with his edges and quick lateral movement down low all game long and is tough to contain. He also plays 2 minute shifts - Laf would be so gassed he accidentally swallowed his bubble gum and choked to death.
Click to expand...
Tkachuk takes many extended shifts a game while chewing his mouthpiece... never see him huffing or puffing

Laffy could learn a lot from Bennett and Tkachuks. That's my new hope but it's copium. Forget the Panarin or McDavids... play a simple North American game but with skill. You don't have to be dynamic to be effective.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare and LokiDog
TopShelfSnipes said:
It's a simple system to execute properly - and it was never executed properly under Gallant's watch - but it was the wrong system for this team. It turns everything into a board battle and is generally meant for bigger, physical teams.

Skilled teams are routinely able to attack the neutral zone with speed, backing off defenders, gaining zone entry, and creating space through drop passes and puck support once they gain the blueline. I would've wanted to see that, but instead we got 90's tactics that weren't even implemented properly with all 3 forwards stopping at the blueline as Levitate noted before the puck was dumped in uselessly to a D that immediately faced a very limited amount of pressure (if it wasn't turned over at the blueline first).
Click to expand...

I don't really agree with this though...it wasn't executed properly because it wasn't really coached into them. It was a "I want you to play this way, you go out and figure out how to execute it"
And yeah the team isn't your typical team to do that but it doesn't really require specific players to do either. You can get in fast on the forecheck and disrupt the breakout and force turnovers without being gritty board grinders.
But it just requires everyone on the same page and executing a plan, not freelancing and making it up as they go

A lot of players on this team look slow because they're always gliding and reacting instead of executing a game plan with their teammates
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unpredictable1, LokiDog and duhmetreE
Levitate said:
I don't really agree with this though...it wasn't executed properly because it wasn't really coached into them. It was a "I want you to play this way, you go out and figure out how to execute it"
And yeah the team isn't your typical team to do that but it doesn't really require specific players to do either. You can get in fast on the forecheck and disrupt the breakout and force turnovers without being gritty board grinders.
But it just requires everyone on the same page and executing a plan, not freelancing and making it up as they go

A lot of players on this team look slow because they're always gliding and reacting instead of executing a game plan with their teammates
Click to expand...

LOL I was agreeing with you. I was one of the biggest champions of canning Gallant all season. The "lack of execution" I'm referring to is directly a result of lack of proper coaching, I just worded it a way that was more on-ice focuses.

TL;DR - Wrong system, poor coaching, zero implementation of the wrong system, bad results.
 
PANARIN BREAD FAN said:
nobody was thinking this before the playoff started. almost everyone was in agreement that this was boston's year and no teams had a chance.
Click to expand...
I was not in agreement. I thought they'd win a round or two though. They had GREAT personnel, I saw nothing GREAT about their system... But as great as their players were, they were reliant on older players who could be prone to the wear of the playoffs.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom