Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[GENESISPuck94]

Imagine the Rangers traded Kovalev before he turned into a superstar borderline hall of famer... oh wait.

Imagine the Rangers traded Doug Weight before he became a borderline hall of famer... oh snap.

Imagine the Rangers traded Marc Savard... woops.

Imagine trading Tony Amonte who scored 30+ eight times and 40+ three times... darn.

Imagine trading hall of famer Sergei Zubov because someone didn't like his face... yikes.

And we sit here demanding It-won't-ruin-my-weekend to trade Lafreniere, Kakko, Chytil, Schneider, and Miller before they reach their mid-20s... shit some of them are barely into their early 20s.

Ok... when does this ship sink from the holes it's taking? I need to find a raft.

 

[LokiDog]

He's not displayed the wow factor we hoped for a 1OA
He came to a team deep at LW, with two pretty good ones ahead of him
He came up through covid
He doesn't get a lot of PP time
He's been bounced around the lineup

He never ran with the opportunity he got in the top 6
He hasn't forced this issue to get more PP time and icetime
He hasn't done much to help himself/improve his game
He needs to get serious about his future in this league


All of these are valid. The good new is he's only 21 and not a finished product. Not even close.

I’ll agree with this. I do think that he can be a good player. A bit of a pesty 50-60 point second line guy. Never a line driver. I just don’t see it.

That said, he does need to start taking his career more seriously. In some ways, player development issues not withstanding, this is like the worst organization to go #1OA to, because we make you feel like you’ve ‘arrived’ just for existing. That probably isn’t the best for an 18 year old with a lot left to prove.

Nonetheless, I think we can all agree that he’s never going to be our Hughes (dynamic 100 point homegrown offensive force) nor our Hischier (versatile 80 point Selke nominee). I think that’s what most of us are upset about. He would be fine for an Andersson or Kravtsov pick (#7 or #9). It just hurts a lot more when he was 1OA and we’re now arguing over whether he’ll be a 60 point second liner or a forever third liner, rather than talking about how elite he is.

 

[bhamill]

I said he barely deserves a contract because he's a first overall playing like a 3rd liner. Good for him for being a .5 ppg player but if that's what he wants from himself he's in bad shape moving forward.

He’s a first overall playing like a physical 3rd, borderline 2nd, liner so he barely deserves a contract? That’s pretty insane. There’s zero logic there. You’re hung up on your disappointment in, and dislike of, the player because of where he was taken, and expect us to agree that he doesn’t deserve a contract? He absolutely deserves a contract. If he doesn’t then half the forwards in the league don’t. He’s disqualified because you (as well as most of us) are unsatisfied with his performance so far in relation to his draft position? Good gravy.
No one said this is all he wants. He hasn’t said this is all he wants. It’s pretty unusual for a 21 year old to be a finished product, so in all likelihood he WILL be more. The real question is “how much more.” It’s almost a lock that he’ll be a second liner, and, IMO, will likely be more than that.
He deserves a contract and he will likely be getting 2yrs at 2mil+.

 

[mas0764]

Imagine the Rangers traded Kovalev before he turned into a superstar borderline hall of famer... oh wait.

Imagine the Rangers traded Doug Weight before he became a borderline hall of famer... oh snap.

Imagine the Rangers traded Marc Savard... woops.

Imagine trading Tony Amonte who scored 30+ eight times and 40+ three times... darn.

Imagine trading hall of famer Sergei Zubov because someone didn't like his face... yikes.

And we sit here demanding It-won't-ruin-my-weekend to trade Lafreniere, Kakko, Chytil, Schneider, and Miller before they reach their mid-20s... shit some of them are barely into their early 20s.

Ok... when does this ship sink from the holes it's taking? I need to find a raft.

Yeah, it would just be astronomically stupid to trade Lafreniere under almost any circumstances. The circumstances would have to be so crazy that it's not even worth thinking about. Like, the Hawks want to give up Bedard for Lafreniere? Ok. I'll take the hard reset on a player who is even better thought of than Lafreniere was, coming out.

I'm not even sure I take Fantilli for Laf though. Why? So we can mess him up too? We haven't shown we can develop guys.

We need to fix our organization and then evaluate Lafreniere. Until that time, IMO he's still got 90 point potential locked in there.

 

[mas0764]

Where is this guy?



His best asset was his head.

That's what tells me he's lost here. It's his best feature and now he doesn't have it. He makes stupid plays. He didn't just get dumb. He's confused, he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. 1000 to 1 that is Kakko's issue too.

Note how Lafreniere's at the point on the power play there. I wonder if he should do that for us. Would be better on PP2 than Trouba.

He has a great one timer here too. And where the f*** has that wrist shot gone? The wrist shot in this video is not a muffin, it's lethal. His junior level wristshot is better than what he's shown in the NHL. Did the puck get heavier? What the f***!

He needs to shave off his ridiculous looking facial hair, it's like Samson in reverse.

I notice it says he has trouble getting a defender off his back and boy has that been true. He can't get away and get space. He does need to improve that. And they said his compete level was bad his final year. Yeah, he needs to shake off the lazy.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Yeah, it would just be astronomically stupid to trade Lafreniere under almost any circumstances. The circumstances would have to be so crazy that it's not even worth thinking about. Like, the Hawks want to give up Bedard for Lafreniere? Ok. I'll take the hard reset on a player who is even better thought of than Lafreniere was, coming out.

I'm not even sure I take Fantilli for Laf though. Why? So we can mess him up too? We haven't shown we can develop guys.

We need to fix our organization and then evaluate Lafreniere. Until that time, IMO he's still got 90 point potential locked in there.

Agree on all.

I believe Laf and Kakko are dying to bust out. People are really disappointed in their production given their usage? They're 40 point players on the 3rd line with barely any PP time. What would they be locked in on the 1st line and top PP unit. Imagine what they'd be with that development for a year. What would Chytil be with a full year as the 2nd line center.

Then you have Othmann knocking on the door behind them.

You're looking at the new 92-93 New York Rangers primed to become the new power house in the league. But they let one shit season and overreaction tear the whole thing down for one kick at the can and then the same repeated fatal errors for darn near a decade after.

You know who I forgot to add to the list of great young forwards the Rangers threw into the wood chipper in the early 90s? Darren Turcotte.

Man... imagine a forward core of:

Messier
Kovalev
Amonte
Graves
Weight
Turcotte
Savard

With a D core surrounding Leetch and Zubov

From the mid 90s through the early 2000s

If they had just been patient we may be talking about Rangers with 3-in-9 instead of the Swampies across the river.

Don't learn from past mistakes doomed to repeat them... look what's happening now. Look at how the Rangers are in danger of snuffing out their young core while the Devils do what it takes to make theirs blossom. Fricken mid-90s to early 2000s all over again.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Where is this guy?

He's there. They just snipped his nuts off as he walked through the door to the MSG training center before he got on the ice, that's all. Now he has to figure out how to surgically reattach them and get the testosterone flowing again.

 

[mas0764]

One interesting comp I heard going through some old pre-draft scouting reports, people are saying, yeah, cause of the Rimouski thing he gets compared to Crosby, but he's not Crosby (and I think we all knew that of course), but a better comp is Vinny Lecavalier.

Yes Lecavalier had a 67 point season at age 19, but as late as age 21 Lecavalier had just 37 points in 76 games. Sounds kinda similar. I think I'd be disappointed with just 2 career seasons over 80 points but Lecavalier was still a fine player once he reached age 22.

Also MacKinnon was just at like 52, 53 points at age 20, 21.... but with 14-16 pp points. Laf had 4.

I think he's still on pace. Kakko too. Just a slower developer.

Man, if these two finally turn into 70 point players this year....

 

[UnSandvich]

One interesting comp I heard going through some old pre-draft scouting reports, people are saying, yeah, cause of the Rimouski thing he gets compared to Crosby, but he's not Crosby (and I think we all knew that of course), but a better comp is Vinny Lecavalier.

Yes Lecavalier had a 67 point season at age 19, but as late as age 21 Lecavalier had just 37 points in 76 games. Sounds kinda similar. I think I'd be disappointed with just 2 career seasons over 80 points but Lecavalier was still a fine player once he reached age 22.

Also MacKinnon was just at like 52, 53 points at age 20, 21.... but with 14-16 pp points. Laf had 4.

I think he's still on pace. Kakko too. Just a slower developer.

Man, if these two finally turn into 70 point players this year....

The biggest thing to me is, if you're not putting them on PP1, you NEED to get the PP2 QB situation figured out. Trouba, bless his heart, he tries. But modern-day PP's don't run through a Dman throwing slap shots towards the net from the point. They require puck distribution and softer shots looking for rebounds and tips.

 

[Guyute]

The biggest thing to me is, if you're not putting them on PP1, you NEED to get the PP2 QB situation figured out. Trouba, bless his heart, he tries. But modern-day PP's don't run through a Dman throwing slap shots towards the net from the point. They require puck distribution and softer shots looking for rebounds and tips.

The next coach should be splitting PP minutes evenly between the two units. If Panarin/Zibby shift draws the penalty at the end of a long shift, PP2 should start the power play.

PP2, including Laf and Kakko, can’t get anything going with Trouba starting a breakout and only 30 seconds left in the power play.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Where is this guy?



His best asset was his head.

That's what tells me he's lost here. It's his best feature and now he doesn't have it. He makes stupid plays. He didn't just get dumb. He's confused, he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. 1000 to 1 that is Kakko's issue too.

Note how Lafreniere's at the point on the power play there. I wonder if he should do that for us. Would be better on PP2 than Trouba.

He has a great one timer here too. And where the f*** has that wrist shot gone? The wrist shot in this video is not a muffin, it's lethal. His junior level wristshot is better than what he's shown in the NHL. Did the puck get heavier? What the f***!

He needs to shave off his ridiculous looking facial hair, it's like Samson in reverse.

I notice it says he has trouble getting a defender off his back and boy has that been true. He can't get away and get space. He does need to improve that. And they said his compete level was bad his final year. Yeah, he needs to shake off the lazy.

Doesn't look all that different to me in all honesty, he was never all that dynamic to begin with

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

The next coach should be splitting PP minutes evenly between the two units. If Panarin/Zibby shift draws the penalty at the end of a long shift, PP2 should start the power play.

PP2, including Laf and Kakko, can’t get anything going with Trouba starting a breakout and only 30 seconds left in the power play.

This. Plus Trocheck should be taking PP2's draws. With four forwards on the ice on both units, and 16 not on PP1, there was no logic to having Chytil at 39% taking PP draws.

 

[mas0764]

The biggest thing to me is, if you're not putting them on PP1, you NEED to get the PP2 QB situation figured out. Trouba, bless his heart, he tries. But modern-day PP's don't run through a Dman throwing slap shots towards the net from the point. They require puck distribution and softer shots looking for rebounds and tips.

And so maybe that’s where Laf belongs.

Doesn't look all that different to me in all honesty, he was never all that dynamic to begin with

He wasn’t ever dynamic like Hughes but he still was an elite prospect. Listening to the report I posted, it’s his passing and thinking that was the best part of his game. Where has that gone? He’s lost. He needs to get faster but also to think faster and the team has hurt him not helped him in that regard, probably more of their “you figure it out,” macho crap that they pulled with Krav.

 

[haohmaru]

One interesting comp I heard going through some old pre-draft scouting reports, people are saying, yeah, cause of the Rimouski thing he gets compared to Crosby, but he's not Crosby (and I think we all knew that of course), but a better comp is Vinny Lecavalier.

Yes Lecavalier had a 67 point season at age 19, but as late as age 21 Lecavalier had just 37 points in 76 games. Sounds kinda similar. I think I'd be disappointed with just 2 career seasons over 80 points but Lecavalier was still a fine player once he reached age 22.

Also MacKinnon was just at like 52, 53 points at age 20, 21.... but with 14-16 pp points. Laf had 4.

I think he's still on pace. Kakko too. Just a slower developer.

Man, if these two finally turn into 70 point players this year....

I'd be surprised if Lafreniere ever hits 70 points, honestly. It's obviously great for us if he does but I just don't see it - not with what I've seen so far. I hope he turns it on.

 

[haohmaru]

FWIW, I heard a Pierre McGuire interview on a podcast recently and he's firmly in the camp of Lafreniere probably figuring it out and echoing the position that a bunch of you have taken: ie... the NHL is becoming more and more dependent on developing players at the NHL level and associate/assistant coaches and specialist coaches. His thoughts on Rangers coach? Q.

He also said that it's tougher to win in the NHL than it ever has been in his 30+ years as a hockey exec and analyst.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

I'd be surprised if Lafreniere ever hits 70 points, honestly. It's obviously great for us if he does but I just don't see it - not with what I've seen so far. I hope he turns it on.

what i got from watching that highlight reel is a guy who just may have played at his peak level. can he elevate himself to a higher level?

i watched dawson mercer footage from 3 seasons ago and from this past season. the improvement is at a holy shit type of level. and he's only to get better. just to think he and laff actually played in the same league at the same time.

laffy reaching 70 pts? mercer, peterka and quinn each have a better chance of hitting that mark first and more often than laffy.

 

[Ruggs225]

FWIW, I heard a Pierre McGuire interview on a podcast recently and he's firmly in the camp of Lafreniere probably figuring it out and echoing the position that a bunch of you have taken: ie... the NHL is becoming more and more dependent on developing players at the NHL level and associate/assistant coaches and specialist coaches. His thoughts on Rangers coach? Q.

He also said that it's tougher to win in the NHL than it ever has been in his 30+ years as a hockey exec and analyst.

To me this is his big year and kakkos as well.

But it al depends on who they hire. Galla t was a joke of a coach and with every day it becomes more apparent that the team won in spite of him.

Its also is of note that none of our youth really took off under his “guidance”.

Drury better pick new coach wisely, because if not than we are better off trading laff and Kakko.

I think both go for over 60 points this year if we get a good coach. Aka not laviollette

 

[bhamill]

what i got from watching that highlight reel is a guy who just may have played at his peak level. can he elevate himself to a higher level?

i watched dawson mercer footage from 3 seasons ago and from this past season. the improvement is at a holy shit type of level. and he's only to get better. just to think he and laff actually played in the same league at the same time.

laffy reaching 70 pts? mercer, peterka and quinn each have a better chance of hitting that mark first and more often than laffy.

Mercer had 56 points this year and he's only 21, they all are, I'd say his odds are good at hitting 70 this coming year or next, especially if he keeps getting lots of PP time, and usage that develops him. He also went from a -25 to a +22, though the whole NJ team improved. He's going to be a nice 200 foot player. Already is, but you know what I mean.
Quinn and Laf were pretty even in their stats, especially taking power play time into account and Peterka was not as good as Laf. Probably none of them hit 70 this coming season but if a new coach gives Laf PP time and GUIDANCE AND DEVELOPMENT I'd go with him being the most likely to come close to it.
In the end, of the four players I see Laf being the best when all is said and done, including his physical and 200ft play. And that isn't a knock on Mercer (or the two Sabres), I'd love him on this team.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Nico Hischier really seems to be getting better. Sometimes it takes a while.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Where is this guy?



His best asset was his head.

That's what tells me he's lost here. It's his best feature and now he doesn't have it. He makes stupid plays. He didn't just get dumb. He's confused, he doesn't know what he's supposed to be doing. 1000 to 1 that is Kakko's issue too.

Note how Lafreniere's at the point on the power play there. I wonder if he should do that for us. Would be better on PP2 than Trouba.

He has a great one timer here too. And where the f*** has that wrist shot gone? The wrist shot in this video is not a muffin, it's lethal. His junior level wristshot is better than what he's shown in the NHL. Did the puck get heavier? What the f***!

He needs to shave off his ridiculous looking facial hair, it's like Samson in reverse.

I notice it says he has trouble getting a defender off his back and boy has that been true. He can't get away and get space. He does need to improve that. And they said his compete level was bad his final year. Yeah, he needs to shake off the lazy.

Most french players from canada playing in the QMJHL are overrated because of their name and background. It just happened to be the reason he was the 1st overall pick. He does not have the skill, heart and talent of a 1st overall pick has. If his name was Joe Straka or Joe Dubinsky he would have been a 2ed or 3rd round pick.

 

[mike14]

In watching that scouting report and comparing it most of what I remember of Laf's play, it seems he's playing a very similar game stylistically, except in the NHL everyone is bigger and faster.

6-1 190 is pretty solid and you can see that guys struggle to contain him in the vid, in the NHL he's getting knocked off the puck or caught up along the walls. He gets to the soft spots for shots around the net, but NHL defenders just push him away

He sees and finds the open ice and gets passes through, but at the NHL level either those lanes don't exist and he's having to force them through defenders, or he doesn't make the pass hard enough and it gets picked off/deflected.

His shot is good, but it doesn't come off his stick all that quickly (in terms of time, not velocity) so at the next level either a defender or the goalie is getting in the way.

Obviously the expectation was that all those traits would transfer over and he'd continue to improve them, but it hasn't really happened yet.
I'd say he'd really want to work on his skating before getting much bigger, which means he really needs to work on getting his shots and passes off quicker, with greater velocity

 

[2014nyr]

This is the most infuriating aspect to watching this offense. No one created space and passing/shooting lanes.

yea it's incredibly frustrating and it starts with getting out of their own end clean with numbers. like how many times this season did the weak side wing creep down towards the dot or inside hash to support coverage only to have a dman or the c find the puck and whip it up their wall forcing the wing to stop and turn to race for the wall where the best they could hope for was getting a stick on it to try at best chip it to the neutral zone, or more often get pinched and have their momentum take them out of the play. the breakouts have everything thrown off already and there's never any coordination whether its offense off a dump in or carrying across the blue line.

the whole team is just generally bad at puck support, there's rarely outlets or stretch passes, and other than laf and panarin no one can handle a hard pass in stride. i've said it for years now, they need at least one speed demon forechecking/backchecking menace added. they're not a slow team, but they aren't a high pace team, and i think the pace needs to be upped by the next coach to get more puck pressure. but even with that they need at least one hagelin/motte/oconnor type added to the lineup and that's assuming we keep motte. if by some miracle we could source a higher skilled, high motor guy i'd be thrilled, but at a minumum we need another guy like that in the lineup to help open up ice.

 

[TheWrongWay]

Most french players from canada playing in the QMJHL are overrated because of their name and background. It just happened to be the reason he was the 1st overall pick. He does not have the skill, heart and talent of a 1st overall pick has. If his name was Joe Straka or Joe Dubinsky he would have been a 2ed or 3rd round pick.

I think most of us would like to see him playing better and love to see him projecting better. But let's not get carried away and re-write things.

Almost every scouting report I recall had him easily at first overall, and regarding potential you'd see them use phrases like "elite," "franchise," and the occasional "generational." If my memory is correct, he was the only player aside from Crosby to win CHL MVP more than once and was also MVP at world juniors.

I dunno, perhaps read some old scouting reports. There are a probably a lot of 'em out there. He was the lock consensus number 1 pick, quite comfortably, and it wasn't because of his name.

 

[TheWrongWay]

yea it's incredibly frustrating and it starts with getting out of their own end clean with numbers. like how many times this season did the weak side wing creep down towards the dot or inside hash to support coverage only to have a dman or the c find the puck and whip it up their wall forcing the wing to stop and turn to race for the wall where the best they could hope for was getting a stick on it to try at best chip it to the neutral zone, or more often get pinched and have their momentum take them out of the play. the breakouts have everything thrown off already and there's never any coordination whether its offense off a dump in or carrying across the blue line.

the whole team is just generally bad at puck support, there's rarely outlets or stretch passes, and other than laf and panarin no one can handle a hard pass in stride. i've said it for years now, they need at least one speed demon forechecking/backchecking menace added. they're not a slow team, but they aren't a high pace team, and i think the pace needs to be upped by the next coach to get more puck pressure. but even with that they need at least one hagelin/motte/oconnor type added to the lineup and that's assuming we keep motte. if by some miracle we could source a higher skilled, high motor guy i'd be thrilled, but at a minumum we need another guy like that in the lineup to help open up ice.

^ This is kind of the whole issue for me. And it's a key reason I don't look at Laf or any player in too much of a vacuum. Because the team looks fundamentally bad at ES, particularly d-zone exits, transition, and offensive zone entries.

I'd love to see the team all looking like they know what they're supposed to be doing without the puck at ES.

If they can clean these ES issues up, I don't necessarily think they end up all too differently in the standings points-wise. But I do think they'd get there a lot more comfortably and would be a lot more efficient in the playoffs.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

FWIW, I heard a Pierre McGuire interview on a podcast recently and he's firmly in the camp of Lafreniere probably figuring it out and echoing the position that a bunch of you have taken: ie... the NHL is becoming more and more dependent on developing players at the NHL level and associate/assistant coaches and specialist coaches. His thoughts on Rangers coach? Q.

He also said that it's tougher to win in the NHL than it ever has been in his 30+ years as a hockey exec and analyst.

It's been this way for a while now because you need the cheap ELC contracts. Which is why we tell everyone that the kids need to wait their turn.