Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[will1066]

Hockey gods are cruel. We got the pick of the litter in a year when the inventory on the lot was basically lemons

 

[ReddestRum]

Not to disagree with you, specifically, this is something I see written by many people and I have no idea what it actually means. Offensive talent (shooting, passing, skating, vision, hands, and so on) are individual skills that players work on themselves.

Organizations aren't ever, like, "Let's make our Top 6 forwards better at doing SICK DEKES." Great offensive players bring those things to the table within the structure of whatever their role happens to be.

No one in the organization (I don't think) looked at Zibanejad and was like, "Mika, what if you became amazing at sniping one timers?" He got good at that on his own, they bumped him into a first liner, put him in the Ovechkin slot on the power play, and the 50 point player they traded for became a 90 point player. He did that on his own, the team noticed and made his role bigger. That's how it works.

Even the idea that the Rangers are uniquely bad offensively, so that could possibly interfere on the individual skill of certain players (like Lafreniere and Kaako), I don't even accept that.

Within the last 4 years, Kreider transformed his game into prime John LeClair having his two best goal scoring seasons in the past two years, Adam Fox went from a prospect with a nice reputation to one of the best offensive defenseman in the league, Panarin went from never scoring 90 points to scoring 90 points 3 out of 4 years (with a short season being the only reason he didn't do it every year). Even older players like Trochek and Vesey both had their best offensive seasons since 2018 this very year!

If prospects aren't developing offensively within the organization, that seems to me, to be on those particular prospects.

Especially Lafreniere, who only showed grinder skills the last two seasons, with a coach like Gallant, whose entire thing was letting players be who they want to be, what they really are.

Literally been saying this same shit for however long. Falls on deaf ears. Even asked a former NHL'r who confirmed the same. The only blame that falls on the organization is the system in place that the players adhere to. Unfortunately for us, we don't play that fast, intensive, young-player game.

The for-Laf crowd will say that he doesn't get the top minutes or top special team minutes, but even if he did, it wouldn't make a difference. The type of change he needs and what the Rangers are looking for doesn't come during the season. Playing top minutes will help him situationally, will help him against tougher competition, but the skill needed to compete as a superstar comes from a work ethic and repetition that you can't really focus on during the season.

 

[Priorae]

Laffy is not getting moved.

He practiced taking pucks on the Right Side in the summer.

The coach never gave him a prolonged look.

Im all for trying anything that gets him closer to the bench.

 

[bouds]

Everyone focuses on his skating, and motor, but his passing is non existent. A defender is never threatened with any of his tools, because the box is empty.

 

[RangersFan1994]

It’s a shame he cant go to Hartford. Maybe the ECHL would help. It suits his skill

 

[bbny]

I don't understand still seeing Lafreniere to RW comments. He had more 5v5 minutes than Kreider and if he didn't miss a game he would have had more than Zibanejad. He averaged less than 2 minutes a game less than Panarin at 5v5. Point being the line doesn't matter. Moving him to the "1st" or "2nd" line to play RW doesn't change his minutes, it just makes fans feel better about faux line numbers. There's only one way to get him more minutes where he can impact the game offensively, and that's PP time.

 

[TriFF51]

I wonder if the hype surrounding Laf and the scouting reports were even surprising to himself lol....I blame the scouts more than I blame Laf.

Sucks watching this lottery and just thinking that we got a 3rd liner.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

We've had two coaches in a row with no discernable system. AV barely had a system. Torts as well. That's nearly 15 years of coaches.

The greatest player we've truly developed in that time has been Kreider. A guy with all-world speed, size, and net hands, but who often looks lost at ES. His greatest attributes are things that either can't be coached, or are things you work on individually.

Laf and Kakko could just be busts. Who knows. But I don't think it's a coincidence that we can't seem to develop offensively skilled players. Give me an actual tactician as our next coach. Someone who can teach the fine details and skills to our kids and give them the freedom to make mistakes trying to make a play.

 

[Machinehead]

I need a coach that gets rid of the kid line.

If one more time I have to watch Chytil and Kakko cycle for 45 seconds before Lafreniere shoots the puck into the crowd, I'm gonna join ISIS with @Bob Richards.

 

[qwertyaas]

I need a coach that gets rid of the kid line.

If one more time I have to watch Chytil and Kakko cycle for 45 seconds before Lafreniere shoots the puck into the crowd, I'm gonna join ISIS with @Bob Richards.

What about if Laf does his Spin-o-rama to nowhere?

 

[IDvsEGO]

We've had two coaches in a row with no discernable system. AV barely had a system. Torts as well. That's nearly 15 years of coaches.

The greatest player we've truly developed in that time has been Kreider. A guy with all-world speed, size, and net hands, but who often looks lost at ES. His greatest attributes are things that either can't be coached, or are things you work on individually.

Laf and Kakko could just be busts. Who knows. But I don't think it's a coincidence that we can't seem to develop offensively skilled players. Give me an actual tactician as our next coach. Someone who can teach the fine details and skills to our kids and give them the freedom to make mistakes trying to make a play.

Name a coach actually available who does that though?
Guys who I think would be good fits are locked up, for a good reason.

 

[Luger]

Everyone saying Laf needs more minutes just wants to pad his stats regardless of the effect on the team. Does he look like a first line player when he's out there? Even on the kid line, Chytil is above the two wingers, and nobody would suggest Chytil needs more minutes. Time should be earned, not granted so we can say that he got better stats. If we give Vesey first line minutes and PP time, his stats will improve also. That doesn't mean either Laf or Vesey look like first liners when they're out on the ice.

 

[bhamill]

Um… if the cap worked, 100% yes. Unfortunately, unless they’re taking Panarin back, PLD’s new deal has zero chance of fitting, but it’s all but certain Laf will not exceed PLD’s current level, and PLD himself is still pretty young.

I think its odd how a 3OA D+7 player who has never reached 65 points is considered a stud but Laf is a bust... PLD scored 63 points this year... 23 on the PP.
No, I obviously don't think PLD is a bust, I'm just pointing out he's not exactly a world beater for his draft position which is a major thing for the anti-Laf contingent. At 25 years old, next month, and gawd knows what cap hit (and ven if we could fit him, that doesn't mean its a good thing to do: we were able to fit Panarin), with not much more production (if you take away power play time, which Laf barely has gotten) playing fewer games this season, but 3:15 more a game. And PLD with linemates that were not also kids trying to find their game. And at 6'4" 215 PLD had 71 hits this year compared to 141 for Laf.
For me, this would be an idiotic trade. Trading the D+3 player with the minimal cap hit, who WILL get better, it's only a matter of how MUCH better, for a D+7 player, who probably is what he is (and some of that is negative locker room stuff) who's numbers are not exactly overwhelming either. No thanks.

 

[bhamill]

Everyone saying Laf needs more minutes just wants to pad his stats regardless of the effect on the team. Does he look like a first line player when he's out there? Even on the kid line, Chytil is above the two wingers, and nobody would suggest Chytil needs more minutes. Time should be earned, not granted so we can say that he got better stats. If we give Vesey first line minutes and PP time, his stats will improve also. That doesn't mean either Laf or Vesey look like first liners when they're out on the ice.

Some of us want to give him and Kakko that responsibility because that's how you develop young players with potential. For me it's not about padding stats NOW, its about making them into better players going FORWARD. Jack Hughes did not look like a first line player his rookie year but the Devs stuck with him. Of course the teams were in two diffeent modes, but that doesn't change how different our usage of these high draft picks is compared to how most high picks get treated.

 

[Machinehead]

What about if Laf does his Spin-o-rama to nowhere?

Rick Nash, hold the Nash.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Lafrenière should not be looked at through the lens of what was done with Jack Hughes.

He will never approach Hughes's talent or achievement.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Some of us want to give him and Kakko that responsibility because that's how you develop young players with potential. For me it's not about padding stats NOW, its about making them into better players going FORWARD. Jack Hughes did not look like a first line player his rookie year but the Devs stuck with him. Of course the teams were in two diffeent modes, but that doesn't change how different our usage of these high draft picks is compared to how most high picks get treated.

If Laff skated like Jack Hughes skates we wouldn't be having these conversations. He struggled his first year because he was on a bad team and was built like a Barbie Doll.

 

[bhamill]

If Laff skated like Jack Hughes skates we wouldn't be having these conversations. He struggled his first year because he was on a bad team and was built like a Barbie Doll.

And how is this a counter to what I said? High draft picks normally are given a long runway to work through the problems in their transition, regardless of what those problems are, and to find their pro game, without being yanked around. Being on a bad team means more opportunity, that's what I meant about the teams being in different modes. We were trying to win. The Devils were not. Jack wasn't blocked by star vets.
And again, I hope I don't NEED to say this, but: I'm not saying Laf would have Hughes' numbers, I'm saying he would be much farther along in his OWN development (regardless of what you THINK his ceiling is) than he currently is now.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

You look at Bedard and his arm injury and how he worked on his shot relentlessly with one hand, but I dont know if we see that from Laffy if it happens to him.

There are some questions about his work ethic and I'd like to see him prove that wrong.

He needs to improve his skating, like yesterday. Make it a mission. The Rangers cant tell him to do it. He's going to NEED to do it, for himself. He needs to become obsessive about it. Will we see that? Im not so sure.

Brian Boyle was almost out of the league until he worked with a skating coach and it turned his career around completely. Laffy needs to put the golf clubs in storage and work with a skating coach the entire summer. Its the weakest part of his game.

He's got most of everything else, the vision, stick handling, he can hit with power, he's learned how to go to the net and when he's got a look his release is good too. Problem is he isn't able to get himself into positions to shoot or be a threat to make a play too often because he's not getting the separation in this league. And because of that his vision is looking like shit. It was never that way. His game is becoming stagnant and regressing in some areas, because his skating and pace is preventing him from developing.

He's got a hitch in his stride and it takes him too long to accelerate or move laterally. He needs help with his edges, transitions and opening up his hips more. I dont know how much improving his skating will yield, but at the very least it will take him from a 3rd liner to a true top 6 player.

This coaching change is just as much about Gallant as it is with the kids and seeing if a change will help them as well. But if we are completely honest about the player, he needs to put in work. Like serious work over the summer and its gotta come from within.

 

[bhamill]

Lafrenière should not be looked at through the lens of what was done with Jack Hughes.

He will never approach Hughes's talent or achievement.

And again, I hope I don't NEED to say this, but: I'm not saying Laf would have Hughes' numbers, I'm saying he would be much farther along in his OWN development (regardless of what you THINK his ceiling is) than he currently is now.
It's not just Hughes that has received this sort of development leash, it's almost ALL high picks as most are drafted by shitty teams.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

And how is this a counter to what I said? High draft picks normally are given a long runway to work through the problems in their transition, regardless of what those problems are, and to find their pro game, without being yanked around. Being on a bad team means more opportunity, that's what I meant about the teams being in different modes. We were trying to win. The Devils were not. Jack wasn't blocked by star vets.
And again, I hope I don't NEED to say this, but: I'm not saying Laf would have Hughes' numbers, I'm saying he would be much farther along in his OWN development (regardless of what you THINK his ceiling is) than he currently is now.

Because more ice time for Laff isn't going to magically turn him into anything more than he currently is. He needs to take ownership over his own career not more ice time. Showing up to training camp with 24% body fat just proves he's not taking his improvement seriously.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Everyone focuses on his skating, and motor, but his passing is non existent. A defender is never threatened with any of his tools, because the box is empty.

I think his passing vision may be better than people think but the puck bounces off his stick so often that he doesn't have that many chances to make great passes. I like Laf but he has a lot of work to do in the offseason on his skating, stopping, starts, his body and mentality. I hope he does what it takes. If he had Crosbys work ethic and drive he would be an all star for sure. The thing that always made Crosby was how hard he worked. That is how he developed his skills. That is how his skating got better. I do not think Laf is giving anywhere near a Crosby effort. Neither is Kakko.

Because more ice time for Laff isn't going to magically turn him into anything more than he currently is. He needs to take ownership over his own career not more ice time. Showing up to training camp with 24% body fat just proves he's not taking his improvement seriously.

Is that number real? Where did you get it? That is shocking.

 

[bhamill]

Because more ice time for Laff isn't going to magically turn him into anything more than he currently is. He needs to take ownership over his own career not more ice time. Showing up to training camp with 24% body fat just proves he's not taking his improvement seriously.

Except I never said anything about "magically transforming" I said something about him developing... OVER TIME, like MOST high picks... Getting better quality ice time and power play time is the norm for high draft pick development, even when they suck at first.
I'm not sure I buy 24% body fat, that was not a verified thing, But I DO agree he needs to bust his ass this off season and come in ready to take that step. This point and what I said are certainly not mutually exclusive and are actually complimentary.

I think his passing vision may be better than people think but the puck bounces off his stick so often that he doesn't have that many chances to make great passes. I like Laf but he has a lot of work to do in the offseason on his skating, stopping, starts, his body and mentality. I hope he does what it takes. If he had Crosbys work ethic and drive he would be an all star for sure. The thing that always made Crosby was how hard he worked. That is how he developed his skills. That is how his skating got better. I do not think Laf is giving anywhere near a Crosby effort. Neither is Kakko.


Is that number real? Where did you get it? That is shocking.

Somebody knows somebody who tests players at camp and that person allegedly said Laf was 24% body fat. I'm not sure which year that was supposed to be. But I also am not just accepting that as true. Regardless he needs to work this off season and come in as well prepared and fit as possible.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Except I never said anything about "magically transforming" I said something about him developing... OVER TIME, like MOST high picks... Getting better quality ice time and power play time is the norm for high draft pick development, even when they suck at first.
I'm not sure I buy 24% body fat, that was not a verified thing, But I DO agree he needs to bust his ass this off season and come in ready to take that step. This point and what I said are certainly not mutually exclusive and are actually complimentary.


Somebody knows somebody who tests players at camp and that person allegedly said Laf was 24% body fat. I'm not sure which year that was supposed to be. But I also am not just accepting that as true. Regardless he needs to work this off season and come in as well prepared and fit as possible.

He got a ton of EV ice time, they tried him on every line, what more do you want the team to do? Do you honestly believe PP 1 time was going to make him a better player? I don't. At what point do we look at the player and ask, what are you doing to put yourself in the best position to succeed? We agree, he needs to work harder this summer. Hopefully he does.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Except I never said anything about "magically transforming" I said something about him developing... OVER TIME, like MOST high picks... Getting better quality ice time and power play time is the norm for high draft pick development, even when they suck at first.
I'm not sure I buy 24% body fat, that was not a verified thing, But I DO agree he needs to bust his ass this off season and come in ready to take that step. This point and what I said are certainly not mutually exclusive and are actually complimentary.


Somebody knows somebody who tests players at camp and that person allegedly said Laf was 24% body fat. I'm not sure which year that was supposed to be. But I also am not just accepting that as true. Regardless he needs to work this off season and come in as well prepared and fit as possible.

Yeah that is a rumor or hearsay. If that 24% was accurate he should have started the season in the AHL. I'm a Laf supporter but I feel he just wasted a season. He has so much work to do this offseason if he ever wants a impressive career. If not he can stay on the same page he is on. If I was Drury I would really push hard not only to work with skills experts and fitness experts this offseason but I would ask for reports every 2-4 weeks.

He got a ton of EV ice time, they tried him on every line, what more do you want the team to do? Do you honestly believe PP 1 time was going to make him a better player? I don't. At what point do we look at the player and ask, what are you doing to put yourself in the best position to succeed? We agree, he needs to work harder this summer. Hopefully he does.

The ice time excuse needs to stop. He is the same player in his first 5 minutes of a game as he is in the 15th minute of a game. He doesn't suddenly become Crosby once he plays his 18th minute in a game.