Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[LokiDog]

Must have missed the “we have a ton of money already committed to centers” part lol

I agree he’s a great player but doesn't make sense

Problem is more we have a ton of money tied up, IMO. I’m always okay with more center depth - Zib, PLD, Chytil, Trochek all can play on the wing and having more capable centers never hurts. Wingers who can’t play center is different, but it’s a moot point because we simply don’t have the space regardless. But I’d rather have 4 “centers” tied up with top six money and play one or two on the wing than have 2-3 wingers on big contracts with less versatility.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

dangle trouba and see who bites

Here we go again. We can't even dangle the f***, he has a NMC! We're stuck with him for a little longer.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

The fact that the other poster misspelled his last name has nothing to do with the fact that Dubois is a 6’4 215lb 24 year old who has scored 60+ points 3 times in the NHL already, including 63 in 73 this past season. It’s not like he hasn’t played wing - the versatility to play center as well is a plus. If the cap worked and there was no plus (I certainly didn’t mention one) you really wouldn’t trade Laf for an established 60+ points forward under 25? PLD was on pace for 70 points last season. Instead of a snarky response about how someone else spelled his name, care to explain why you think Laf for PLD - in principle - is a bad deal for NYR. Not the cap logistics or whether there would be a plus. Just why you think that was such bad value.

What’s the point of entertaining an idea that is completely impossible to execute due to the salary cap?

 

[JHS]

Another casualty of the Gallant firing- guess now he’s back to his local cronies this off season to train and come back again out of shape and a struggling 40 point player…

 

[JHS]

Zib is not an exception. He is a standard case of a successful 5-10 overall pick. Literally.

And I don’t hate Lafreniere I simply think he blows. I am beginning to think I hate obtuse Rangers fans who couldn’t fairly evaluate hockey without a NYR bias if their entire family was being held at gunpoint. If Lafreniere was on ANY other team in the league and they were trying to trade us to him for literally a 2nd round pick you’d be saying no thank you. If someone offered 10 overall this year for Laf, you’d also say no thank you. That’s an intellect that is limited by its bias and I’m pretty much 110% done engaging in conversations with such unfortunate souls. Ciao.

I appreciate your efforts here but you are 100% correct. The Ranger blindness is so over the top on these pages they are actually impossible to read anymore. Sad becasue this site use to be really good but now it's just insane comment after insane comment.

 

[JHS]

you literally explained why laf plays like a third line grinder in your post

the rangers have basically told laf we want you to play well defensively. i can only speak from my personal experience but when you are told to do something youve never done in your life and also simultaneously not put in positions that you have succeeded your whole life doing it messes with your head

what??? They told him to play defensively???? Under a coach in Gallant who constantly allowed players the freedom to basically do whatever they wanted including insanely frustrating cross ice passes in the neutral zone all the time.???? Where is your source for this absurd assertion.? www.dilusinland.com???

He's on the third line because his skill set is putrid and he showed nothing in the top 6 any chance he got! In fact in the playoffs this year vs the Devils, Laf was moved up to the top 6 in game 5 I believe-- he did not even last half a game before they bumped him down.

You are just making stuff up to support Laf here. It's so painfully obvious.

 

[ReddestRum]

you literally explained why laf plays like a third line grinder in your post

the rangers have basically told laf we want you to play well defensively. i can only speak from my personal experience but when you are told to do something youve never done in your life and also simultaneously not put in positions that you have succeeded your whole life doing it messes with your head

Coach: "Welcome to the NHL kid. You made it. We want you to start you off a little slow and experiment with you on different lines. We'll also be looking very closely at your positioning on offense and defense. I don't need to tell you that this league is much different than what you've experienced before, but like all players, I'm sure you'll adjust to the challenge."

Laf: "Wait... defense? What's defense? Don't we have defense people on the team already?? I've never done that, even in juniors. Challenges too? Not sure about that. I've never been challenged or done something new in life since, well, since I was born. I'm pretty sure I'm going to fail. Can.... I just go back to juniors?"

Coach:

I've heard some "interesting" takes on the kid in this thread before, but this one TAKES the cake. Lol. 216 regular season games, 20 playoffs games, and an ECF under his belt and he's still spooked at his own shadow because he's had to play a different game than juniors and before? Imagine his disappointment with realizing he's not going to deke around NHL vets like he might've done in juniors and that he might have to be more physical or actually backcheck. I'm sure junior players never expect this when getting drafted.

 

[JHS]

Why the hell isn't he being sent on the first plane to the world championships? He is an RFA, I don't see how it matters if he gets injured. He needs reps against pros in the worst way possible. Rangers already f***ing up by not forcing him to go.

The fact that Laf does not want to go tells you all you need to know about him- clearly hockey is not on his "to-do" list

 

[mrmovies779]

I still believe in Laf..not ready to give up on the kids yet.That being said,its do or die time,kids.No more excuses

 

[qwertyaas]

The problem with Laf is two-fold.

This organization sucks at developing offensive talent.

Then there are issues with Laf himself. His skating and explosiveness are not NHL level. So he's always a step behind. His decision making is very hit or miss on the offensive side of the puck.

He needs to get real skating lessons and off-season coaching this summer. Not his buddies back home.

And the Rangers need to revamp their development staff. Frankly, they suck.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

What makes anyone think Panarin waves to go to Winnipeg

 

[mrmovies779]

What makes anyone think Panarin waves to go to Winnipeg

Slim to none...hell,a Winnipeg native wouldn't waive to go back to Winnipeg

 

[LokiDog]

What makes anyone think Panarin waves to go to Winnipeg

I don’t think anyone thinks that, it’s just mindless off season banter. It’s gonna be a long summer in Ranger-land.

 

[haohmaru]

The smartest take I've read on Lafreniere:

• Friedman added, “I don’t think the Rangers want to trade this guy. I say this all the time, you can trade your problem or you can solve your problem and it’s always better to solve your problem. I think that will be a focal point of the search.”

 

[CasusBelli]

What makes anyone think Panarin waves to go to Winnipeg

His affinity for Columbus.

 

[Number 9]

I feel like Laf is a bit immature and may lack work ethic. He killed it chl with no effort, I don't think he expected to be this far behind in competing with NHLer's. It will sting if we trade him, only because of what could have been.

 

[Zamboner]

This organization sucks at developing offensive talent.

Not to disagree with you, specifically, this is something I see written by many people and I have no idea what it actually means. Offensive talent (shooting, passing, skating, vision, hands, and so on) are individual skills that players work on themselves.

Organizations aren't ever, like, "Let's make our Top 6 forwards better at doing SICK DEKES." Great offensive players bring those things to the table within the structure of whatever their role happens to be.

No one in the organization (I don't think) looked at Zibanejad and was like, "Mika, what if you became amazing at sniping one timers?" He got good at that on his own, they bumped him into a first liner, put him in the Ovechkin slot on the power play, and the 50 point player they traded for became a 90 point player. He did that on his own, the team noticed and made his role bigger. That's how it works.

Even the idea that the Rangers are uniquely bad offensively, so that could possibly interfere on the individual skill of certain players (like Lafreniere and Kaako), I don't even accept that.

Within the last 4 years, Kreider transformed his game into prime John LeClair having his two best goal scoring seasons in the past two years, Adam Fox went from a prospect with a nice reputation to one of the best offensive defenseman in the league, Panarin went from never scoring 90 points to scoring 90 points 3 out of 4 years (with a short season being the only reason he didn't do it every year). Even older players like Trochek and Vesey both had their best offensive seasons since 2018 this very year!

If prospects aren't developing offensively within the organization, that seems to me, to be on those particular prospects.

Especially Lafreniere, who only showed grinder skills the last two seasons, with a coach like Gallant, whose entire thing was letting players be who they want to be, what they really are.

 

[mike14]

Zib is not an exception. He is a standard case of a successful 5-10 overall pick. Literally.

I'm happy to be told I over hype Mika a bit, but this seems a bit off (or we have a different definition of 'standard').
From 1995-2019 there were 97 forwards selected between 5 and 10 OA.
At this point in time 11 forwards have scored more points than Mika and 9 of them needed over 1000 games to do that.
Looking up to and including Mika's draft the only forwards I'd have clearly ahead of him are Kessell, Wheeler (but not by much) and Schiefele (Mika's draft class was actually great for 5-10).
Going post his draft, where you wouldn't expect them to match point totals yet you have W Nylander, Ehlers and Meier around Mika's level; and Rantenan, Tkachuk and Petersson ahead of him.
Cozens and Zegras it's too early to tell IMO.

You could mount a convincing argument that from those 97 forwards, he's the 7th best player.

TL/DR - if you expect your 5-10 pick to be Mika as a standard, prepare to be disappointed...

 

[LokiDog]

I'm happy to be told I over hype Mika a bit, but this seems a bit off (or we have a different definition of 'standard').
From 1995-2019 there were 97 forwards selected between 5 and 10 OA.
At this point in time 11 forwards have scored more points than Mika and 9 of them needed over 1000 games to do that.
Looking up to and including Mika's draft the only forwards I'd have clearly ahead of him are Kessell, Wheeler (but not by much) and Schiefele (Mika's draft class was actually great for 5-10).
Going post his draft, where you wouldn't expect them to match point totals yet you have W Nylander, Ehlers and Meier around Mika's level; and Rantenan, Tkachuk and Petersson ahead of him.
Cozens and Zegras it's too early to tell IMO.

You could mount a convincing argument that from those 97 forwards, he's the 7th best player.

TL/DR - if you expect your 5-10 pick to be Mika as a standard, prepare to be disappointed...

The list of players you mentioned post Mika is more indicative of the shift in the quality of scouting and how frequently you should be able to hit on top 10 picks, IMO, but yes I likely over simplified things by calling it standard. My point was more of “it’s what you hope for/expect when things DO go right, for a player draft around 5-6OA” more so than an example or LOOOK! He broke out at 24!!!

 

[duhmetreE]

IF Laffy starts putting in the work, he'll be a good player.

It's that simple. If he's coming in looking like @Machinehead , we might have issues

 

[Zats Muccarello]

He needs to work his ass off this summer conditioning and power skating wise in order to be an effective top 6 player next year.

 

[Machinehead]

IF Laffy starts putting in the work, he'll be a good player.

It's that simple. If he's coming in looking like @Machinehead , we might have issues

I have more stamina than SpongeBob every day and twice on Wednesday.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

 

[RangersFan1994]

How about trading Alexis Lafrenière to Wpg. for Pierre Luc Dubious signed and traded to the rangers. Playoff gem!. Jets are rebuilding. .

So Chytil will be a 4th line center.

 

[qwertyaas]

Not to disagree with you, specifically, this is something I see written by many people and I have no idea what it actually means. Offensive talent (shooting, passing, skating, vision, hands, and so on) are individual skills that players work on themselves.

Organizations aren't ever, like, "Let's make our Top 6 forwards better at doing SICK DEKES." Great offensive players bring those things to the table within the structure of whatever their role happens to be.

No one in the organization (I don't think) looked at Zibanejad and was like, "Mika, what if you became amazing at sniping one timers?" He got good at that on his own, they bumped him into a first liner, put him in the Ovechkin slot on the power play, and the 50 point player they traded for became a 90 point player. He did that on his own, the team noticed and made his role bigger. That's how it works.

Even the idea that the Rangers are uniquely bad offensively, so that could possibly interfere on the individual skill of certain players (like Lafreniere and Kaako), I don't even accept that.

Within the last 4 years, Kreider transformed his game into prime John LeClair having his two best goal scoring seasons in the past two years, Adam Fox went from a prospect with a nice reputation to one of the best offensive defenseman in the league, Panarin went from never scoring 90 points to scoring 90 points 3 out of 4 years (with a short season being the only reason he didn't do it every year). Even older players like Trochek and Vesey both had their best offensive seasons since 2018 this very year!

If prospects aren't developing offensively within the organization, that seems to me, to be on those particular prospects.

Especially Lafreniere, who only showed grinder skills the last two seasons, with a coach like Gallant, whose entire thing was letting players be who they want to be, what they really are.

There are teams that help compliment and bring out offensive talents to compliment the players own skills.

Rangers development always focused on defensive responsibility. Especially after we had players like Dubi/Cally/Stepan/Hagelin and so on coming down the pipeline.

Yes, that's needed but when you top boom or bust prospects, you let them focus on their talents before punishing risk and talent. It's also a byproduct of always being in contention, you can't take risks and stifle creativity.