Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bhamill]

if memory serves me correctly the coach did place him in the top 6 on several occasions. had the kid performed well on a consistent basis then the trades for kane and tank wouldn't have been needed. maybe for one of them but not for both. and if i also do recall wasn't there a very very brief stretch when in over to accommodate this kid an all star was shifted to his off wing?

and why bring up tage thompson? he wasn't 1OA. also during his time with the blues his role there was to just be this one gigantic body to crush. and whose idea was that? could it have been mike yeo? and who was the coach in buffalo before thompson''s breakthrough? krueger-the guy who almost ruined skinner's career.

Why does it matter if Tage was 1OA? We are talking about players who had similar stat lines D+3 who later broke out. So his role with the Blues was not as a top line player with PP time... much like Laf's is not that role here... being on the top line for short stretches is nothing. Players like Hughes, Stutzle, etc got STAPLED on the top lines and PP1 and weren't demoted for their bad stretches. Hughes was abysmal in D+1, worse than Laf even with all his PP time, 5 more games and more mins per game... It was sink or swim and EVENTUALLY he swam...

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Why does it matter if Tage was 1OA? We are talking about players who had similar stat lines D+3 who later broke out. So his role with the Blues was not as a top line player with PP time... much like Laf's is not that role here... being on the top line for short stretches is nothing. Players like Hughes, Stutzle, etc got STAPLED on the top lines and PP1 and weren't demoted for their bad stretches. Hughes was abysmal in D+1, worse than Laf even with all his PP time, 5 more games and more mins per game... It was sink or swim and EVENTUALLY he swam...

oh gee I dunno -ahh maybe because the debate is about discussing and comparing players that were drafted 1OA? thompson was 26OA.

 

[LokiDog]

To be clear, I haven’t once said we should trade Laf. I just said he’s bad. He’s our problem though - without him being what he was drafted to be (Kakko as well) the rebuild is derailed and we’re back in the exact same spot we were in before the letter. If they had both truly been elite talents, we would be in a totally different position and have a much brighter future. I don’t think trading him solves anything - if he’s in a package with other assets and it brings back an actual upgrade (not sure how cap gets figured out) that’s a different story, but I’m not saying trade him. I’m saying make peace with the fact that we’ll be lucky if he’s ever a grindy 55 point middle of the lineup guy and we needed at least one of the lottery picks to end up being bonafide 80-90 point play drivers. I’ve never said he won’t improve. I’ve never said he can’t be an okay player. I’ve said that even if he becomes a 55 or 60 point middle six guy, that is still a bust for where he was drafted and what his hype was and as long as he busts, whether it’s “okay second liner” or perennial bottom six grinder, we are back to exactly where we were pre-letter. The success of the rebuild hinges on two lottery picks becoming the future cornerstones of our organization. It looks like a 99.9% chance that they will never be that.

Also, trivial next to my main point, but yes, you could watch young Mika and see dynamic skating, high level skill. Saying you knew it would actually come together for him is an entirely different story - saying that you could at least SEE the skill that made him a high draft pick even before he was successful is not. Laf hasn’t shown WHY he was a consensus 1st pick. And as for Tage, he is truly the exception who had a genuinely bad start to his career… but, one he’s 6’7 and a late first round pick, so predicting his development would always be a bit more difficult. I’m pretty sure the reason draft position is relevant to the conversation is because the higher you are selected, the more of a sure thing you are expected to be. Tage was nearly a second rounder and would have been if he were average sized (probably closer to a 4th rounder) so he wasn’t seen as ANY kind of sure thing - he was a boom or bust prospect with tantalizing size. Two he needed a change of scenery to break out. He would likely still be a bust if he never changes teams. Three, his wife went through cancer earlier in his career, which is definitely a potential factor in his odd development. Is he an example of a genuine SURPRISE later breakout? Yes. Not so much with the other examples. Mika played 9 games in his D+1, this is exactly on as expected for a 6th overall. The following year he scored 20 in 41. That’s .5 points per game for a 19-20 year old in his D+2. He was tracking for a successful 6th overall pick right out of the gate. Different expectations for guys taken outside of the top 3ish than guys taken 1/2. You can spout off about “why are we fixating on his draft position“ all you want to, but the fact is, the only reason Laf is even playing 15 minutes in the NHL right now is because of his draft position. Mika and Huberdeau breaking out was not surprising. Laf doing so would be, because he looks to be average in just about every conceivable facet of the game.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

Arthur Staple believes the one guy the Rangers should trade this summer is Alexis Lafreniere. He kind of talks himself in circles about it - advocating for a move while simultaneously admitting that his value is at the absolute lowest its ever been. He doesn't think Laffy even returns a first round pick. Best case scenario is that Laf finds his game in New York. Issue is that Panarin & Kreider are ahead of him with no clear path for him to get the minutes he will truly need to develop. Rock and a hard place for the organization.

Vally says Laf needs to hit the gym hard this summer. He believes the #1 teachable skill is skating. Says he's seen guys improve their skating and change their careers. Also said he believes competitiveness is a teachable skill. Laf will need to dig deep and give this summer everything he has. Next year will be his year for him to see where he is at, at this level.

 

[The Gloaming]

The breakout of Tage Thompson (a unicorn 6'7 player who shoots cannons) is now going to be used as cope for every fanbase with a struggling young player about how if he can get better, anyone can.

Buffalo had the worst coach maybe in hockey history. One who made Dahlin and Skinner look horrible. I don't particularly like Gallant but he is not at Krueger's level.

There's plenty of young high picks who just never put it together.

 

[ArPanet]

Carter Verhaeghe and Jared McCann are two previous middling players who have been trending up for a few seasons now. Ofc both guys play for hockey teams while Laf plays for a marketing team.

 

[bhamill]

oh gee I dunno -ahh maybe because the debate is about discussing and comparing players that were drafted 1OA? thompson was 26OA.

No that's not the conversation most of us are having, obviously. What the conversation should be limited to ONE player per draft year? They were all first rounders that had similar D+3 seasons and Hub was 3OA and Zib was 6OA...

 

[Chytilmania]

How many times has he beaten a goalie clean with a decent velocity shot lol, twice? Almost all his goals have been garbage goals that bounced off his ass into an empty net

Curious, are there any Rangers you are lukewarm on? The ones you love and the ones you hate all end up sucking.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Carter Verhaeghe and Jared McCann are two previous middling players who have been trending up for a few seasons now. Ofc both guys play for hockey teams while Laf plays for a marketing team.

McCann was a former 1st round pick. Canucks traded him to Panthers for Gudbranson. Gave up early on him as did Penguins

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Arthur Staple believes the one guy the Rangers should trade this summer is Alexis Lafreniere. He kind of talks himself in circles about it - advocating for a move while simultaneously admitting that his value is at the absolute lowest its ever been. He doesn't think Laffy even returns a first round pick. Best case scenario is that Laf finds his game in New York. Issue is that Panarin & Kreider are ahead of him with no clear path for him to get the minutes he will truly need to develop. Rock and a hard place for the organization.

Vally says Laf needs to hit the gym hard this summer. He believes the #1 teachable skill is skating. Says he's seen guys improve their skating and change their careers. Also said he believes competitiveness is a teachable skill. Laf will need to dig deep and give this summer everything he has. Next year will be his year for him to see where he is at, at this level.

Vally was spot on with this. Trading Laf at this point makes next to no sense, his value is at the lowest it's going to be and he can be a contributor on a cheap contract which the team needs.

Laf needs to take his offseason seriously. He should come into camp in the best shape of his life and on the heels of 3 solid months working with skating coaches. He needs to put in the work off the ice if he wants to be an NHL star. He needs to find that maturity and professionalism to realize that he needs to work hard in the offseason and how important training and nutrition are.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Curious, are there any Rangers you are lukewarm on? The ones you love and the ones you hate all end up sucking.

Fox, Chytil, Miller, Tarasenko & Schneider!

 

[Chytilmania]

Fox, Chytil, Miller, Tarasenko & Schneider!

Okay Schneider 10 goals in 2023.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Fox, Chytil, Miller, Tarasenko & Schneider!

what? no kravtsov? you'll still ok in my book if you still like him. shit i still like yakupov and virtanen!!!

 

[EdJovanovski]

what? no kravtsov? you'll still ok in my book if you still like him. shit i still like yakupov and virtanen!!!

Those are the Rangers I’m lukewarm on lol! Krav is still my favorite player
My favorite Rangers are Panarin & Igor. And I like Lindgren & Kane. I dislike the rest.

However my hockey philosophy is more flash, skill, speed oriented so I don't like how our D core is a bunch of Lindgren's. I'd only want one Lindgren, our D is too immobile and lacks transition skill. DeAngelo was really the perfect type of player that we're missing on our back end, in addition to the fact he gives a f*** and brings passion to the game for better or worse.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

i also miss deangelo. we sure could have used another d-man that could drive through to the opposing zone. he's a pain in the ass to play against also. he has one more year left in philly.

 

[nevesis]

To be clear, I haven’t once said we should trade Laf. I just said he’s bad. He’s our problem though - without him being what he was drafted to be (Kakko as well) the rebuild is derailed and we’re back in the exact same spot we were in before the letter. If they had both truly been elite talents, we would be in a totally different position and have a much brighter future. I don’t think trading him solves anything - if he’s in a package with other assets and it brings back an actual upgrade (not sure how cap gets figured out) that’s a different story, but I’m not saying trade him. I’m saying make peace with the fact that we’ll be lucky if he’s ever a grindy 55 point middle of the lineup guy and we needed at least one of the lottery picks to end up being bonafide 80-90 point play drivers. I’ve never said he won’t improve. I’ve never said he can’t be an okay player. I’ve said that even if he becomes a 55 or 60 point middle six guy, that is still a bust for where he was drafted and what his hype was and as long as he busts, whether it’s “okay second liner” or perennial bottom six grinder, we are back to exactly where we were pre-letter. The success of the rebuild hinges on two lottery picks becoming the future cornerstones of our organization. It looks like a 99.9% chance that they will never be that.

Also, trivial next to my main point, but yes, you could watch young Mika and see dynamic skating, high level skill. Saying you knew it would actually come together for him is an entirely different story - saying that you could see the skill that made him a high draft pick even before he was successful is not. Laf hasn’t shown WHY he was a consensus 1st pick. And as for Tage, he is truly the exception who had a genuinely bad start to his career… but, one he’s 6’7 and a late first round pick, so predicting his development would always be a bit more difficult. I’m pretty sure the reason draft position is relevant to the conversation is because the higher you are selected, the more of a sure thing you are expected to be. Tage was nearly a second rounder and would have been if he were average sized (probably closer to a 4th rounder). Two he needed a change of scenery to break out. He would likely still be a bust if he never changes teams. Three, his wife went through cancer earlier in his career, which is definitely a potential factor in his odd development. Is he an example of a genuine SURPRISE later breakout? Yes. Mika and Huberdeau breaking out was not surprising. Laf doing so would be, because he looks to be average in just about every conceivable facet of the game.

This is the moron who the Rangers employ as the skills coach. Guy is a outdated dinosaur who literally has no skills.

Get younger, actual skilled and experienced coaches in here. Not these clueless idiots.

 

[McRanger92]

i also miss deangelo. we sure could have used another d-man that could drive through to the opposing zone. he's a pain in the ass to play against also. he has one more year left in philly.

Youd think people would give up this DeAngelo obsession after we beat him like a rented mule last playoff and he finished the year a healthy scratch in Philly.

 

[LORDE]

I will film myself eating an entire Rangers jersey if Lafreniere EVER has a point per game season.

WHAT about his game suggests he can be a star or a 70+ point player? Which skill or attribute makes you think there is a hope in hell of this happening? I’m not being facetious - I genuinely want you to tell me what about Alexis Lafreniere suggests even a HINT of “future 70 point player” (let alone point per game).

You said his usage and ppg suggest he can still be a star. You said “he can be disappointing for a 1st overall and still also track WELL to one day be a 70 point player”. Specifically WHAT about tracks well? And more importantly, what do you SEE that suggest to you that with 90 more seconds of ES ice time per game and 2 minutes of PP time per game, he would go from a 39 point player to an 70-82+ point player.

I’ve asked a dozen posters this question. I’ve seen 5 other posters ask you guys this question. It never gets answered.

WHAT (besides his draft position, since we are all wrong for judging him based off his draft position) do you see that suggests to you there is ANY hope that this kid will one day be a 70-85 point player?

I have a Laf jersey I will offer to be eaten… if such an occasion arises.

 

[EdJovanovski]

This is the moron who the Rangers employ as the skills coach. Guy is a outdated dinosaur who literally has no skills.

Get younger, actual skilled and experienced coaches in here. Not these clueless idiots.

“Improved skating ability of young players” LMAO

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think Lafreniere could easily pop on a team like Arizona with little to no spotlight, winning expectations, tons of ice time and PP time with a few talented players. And OTOH just being realistic, there's no path to success for him here even if you still believe in his potential. A mid/high first would have more value to the rangers at this point, and if Dach could get that, I'd have to think he could.

 

[LokiDog]

I think Lafreniere could easily pop on a team like Arizona with little to no spotlight, winning expectations, tons of ice time and PP time with a few talented players. And OTOH just being realistic, there's no path to success for him here even if you still believe in his potential. A mid/high first would have more value to the rangers at this point, and if Dach could get that, I'd have to think he could.

Like because he already comes to camp fat and there’s nothing to do in AZ but eat, or…? Because if pop means 70+ points I think there’s a greater chance of him actually eating corn dogs and onion rings until he bursts.

 

[LORDE]

I honestly believe there IS a lot of cope in here. That's not an insult. Not at all. We're all NYR Fans and have plenty of scars to prove it.

NONE of us wanted this.

NONE

But as Loki (& others point out... including myself) there's nothing there to hang your hat on with him.

Stop bringing up Tage or Zbad et all

Laf is nothing like those players. Nothing.

Can he improve? OF COURSE HE CAN

He can improve on just about everything because he has so little in EVERY aspect of the game.

That IS the crux of the issue.

 

[mas0764]

and why bring up tage thompson? he wasn't 1OA.

Because the discussion isn’t whether he’s a disappointment as 1OA, he is. The discussion is whether he can still become an impact player like Thompson despite his draft spot, and the answer is yes he can.

 

[mas0764]

The breakout of Tage Thompson (a unicorn 6'7 player who shoots cannons) is now going to be used as cope for every fanbase with a struggling young player about how if he can get better, anyone can.

Buffalo had the worst coach maybe in hockey history. One who made Dahlin and Skinner look horrible. I don't particularly like Gallant but he is not at Krueger's level.

There's plenty of young high picks who just never put it together.

We have one of the worst orgs at developing young talent so we are in the same boat.

Tage Thompson is one example. There are many. Dozens. Scores.

 

[mas0764]

I honestly believe there IS a lot of cope in here. That's not an insult. Not at all. We're all NYR Fans and have plenty of scars to prove it.

NONE of us wanted this.

NONE

But as Loki (& others point out... including myself) there's nothing there to hang your hat on with him.

Stop bringing up Tage or Zbad et all

Laf is nothing like those players. Nothing.

Can he improve? OF COURSE HE CAN

He can improve on just about everything because he has so little in EVERY aspect of the game.

That IS the crux of the issue.

It’s just not true that Laf shows nothing but Zibanejad, Thompson, McCann, etc showed tons of skill. It’s revisionist history. It’s bias from us watching every second of ice time and wanting more from Laf versus popping in highlight tapes of Tage Thompson at 21 and saying, “Wow, look at that skill!”

Highlight tapes are misleading. You could create equal highlight tapes of Laf, and if you spent your time back in the day watching every Tage Thompson shift waiting for him to do something you would have been underwhelmed with him too.