Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Rangers in 7]

So we are going to give up on the only 1st overall pick in franchise history before ever even giving him a chance to sink or swim in the top 6? Because they have not yet done that in his 3 years in the league. I think it’s a total coin flip Laf is back at all, and he has been a disappointment so far, but the organization failed him. Unrelated but related, no one would take Tage Thompson for a 5th round pick a year ago.

I said tage Thompson like 10 posts ago

Great. Now do the entire analysis again, but show us where all those players played the majority of their ice time in the lineup. How much ice time did they get. How much PP time did they get. How many of their points and goals were on the PP.

He won’t, because once you start to take in account ES points vs PP points the numbers start to look very even

 

[mas0764]

I will film myself eating an entire Rangers jersey if Lafreniere EVER has a point per game season.

WHAT about his game suggest he can be a star or a 70+ point player? Which skill or attribute makes you think there is a hope in hell of this happening? I’m not being facetious - I genuinely want you to tell me what about Alexis Lafreniere suggest even a HINT of “future 70 point player” (let alone point per game).

You said his usage and ppg suggest he can still be a star. Specifically WHAT about them? And more importantly, what do you SEE that suggest to you that with 90 more seconds of ES ice time per game and 2 minutes of PP time per game, he would go from a 39 point player to an 82+ point player.

I’ve asked a dozen posters this question. I’ve seen 5 other posters ask you guys this question. It never gets answered.

WHAT (besides his draft position, since we are all wrong for judging him based off his draft position) do you see that suggests to you there is ANY hope that this kid will one day be a 70-85 point player?

We get it, you don’t like him.

Plenty of D+3 players have never cracked 40 points and then gone on to be high end players. Zibanejad is one of them.

Your question of “what do you see that translates to 80 points” is a red herring. That’s why it “never gets answered.” You are asking a misleading question.

I see a 40 point player right now. But that player can still get better. That’s the answer. He’s going to show things in his D+6 that he can’t show in his D+3.

Lafreniere’s main problem is his decision making, even more than his foot speed. He thinks the game too slow. He makes too many mistakes. For a guy that dominated the lesser leagues like he did, it’s a confidence thing for him.

I’m not guaranteeing he’s going to be a star and I’m actually probably with you 100% that he is not the #1 overall we thought we were getting and still desperately need. We need a Jack Hughes.

But that doesn’t mean we should run Lafreniere off.

 

[ReddestRum]

We get it, you don’t like him.

Plenty of D+3 players have never cracked 40 points and then gone on to be high end players. Zibanejad is one of them.

TBF, at the end of Mika's D+3, he played 96 less games than Laf.

 

[LokiDog]

We get it, you don’t like him.

Plenty of D+3 players have never cracked 40 points and then gone on to be high end players. Zibanejad is one of them.

Your question of “what do you see that translates to 80 points” is a red herring. That’s why it “never gets answered.” You are asking a misleading question.

I see a 40 point player right now. But that player can still get better. That’s the answer.

Lafreniere’s main problem is his decision making, even more than his foot speed. He thinks the game too slow. He makes too many mistakes. For a guy that dominated the lesser leagues like he did, it’s a confidence thing for him.

No. It isn’t a misleading question. It’s a very direct question. I am not an NHL player. I could get better, right? Something about me should probably support that notion though.

Direct question: WHAT makes you think Alexis Lafreniere can double his production? Don’t side step. Don’t tell me my question is a red herring. What, aside from the fact that the Rangers have never drafted a hyped 1OA before and you WANT him to get better suggests to you that there is anything about his game that translates to a point per game player? He can get better, sure. What is it that makes a single one of you think he will get DOUBLE THE PRODUCTION better though? I want an answer. One tangible thing about him.

 

[SlafySZN]

Cheers from a myopic Kings fan. We’re also going through our own cope with Byfield and Turcotte right now.

From an habs fan, Byfield for the 17th overall pick, deal? lol

 

[Rangers in 7]

I will film myself eating an entire Rangers jersey if Lafreniere EVER has a point per game season.

WHAT about his game suggests he can be a star or a 70+ point player? Which skill or attribute makes you think there is a hope in hell of this happening? I’m not being facetious - I genuinely want you to tell me what about Alexis Lafreniere suggests even a HINT of “future 70 point player” (let alone point per game).

You said his usage and ppg suggest he can still be a star. You said “he can be disappointing for a 1st overall and still also track WELL to one day be a 70 point player”. Specifically WHAT about tracks well? And more importantly, what do you SEE that suggest to you that with 90 more seconds of ES ice time per game and 2 minutes of PP time per game, he would go from a 39 point player to an 70-82+ point player.

I’ve asked a dozen posters this question. I’ve seen 5 other posters ask you guys this question. It never gets answered.

WHAT (besides his draft position, since we are all wrong for judging him based off his draft position) do you see that suggests to you there is ANY hope that this kid will one day be a 70-85 point player?

Don’t worry I’ll expect the video in a couple of years

 

[LokiDog]

Don’t worry I’ll expect the video in a couple of years

Same question I just asked @mas0764 which I guarantee you will not provide a direct answer to.

 

[mas0764]

No. It isn’t a misleading question.

It is a misleading question. The answer is, he hasn’t shown anything to indicate he has 80 point skills. The answer also is, that can be reasonably expected and still come in time.

So there’s no answer to your question for a reason and you didn’t “zing” anyone or stump us by posing it.

Direct question: WHAT makes you think Alexis Lafreniere can double his production?

I’ll quote myself:

Plenty of D+3 players have never cracked 40 points and then gone on to be high end players. Zibanejad is one of them.

A 21 year old who scores 40 points (well, 39) usually still has significant improvement coming. Is it 50 points? 60? More? I don’t know but it’s going to be more than you are giving him credit for.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Same question I just asked @mas0764 which I guarantee you will not provide a direct answer to.

I’ve seen enough glimpses of his passing ability to know he can be a 80 point player

 

[mas0764]

TBF, at the end of Mika's D+3, he played 96 less games than Laf.

Yes, but development isn’t only about games played. Maybe Lafreniere really needed to be in the AHL?

I think Kakko did too honestly.

 

[LokiDog]

It is a misleading question. The answer is, he hasn’t shown anything to indicate he has 80 point skills. The answer also is, that can be reasonably expected and still come in time.

So there’s no answer to your question for a reason and you didn’t “zing” anyone or stump us by posing it.


I’ll quote myself:

Plenty of D+3 players have never cracked 40 points and then gone on to be high end players. Zibanejad is one of them.

A 21 year old who scores 40 points (well, 39) usually still has significant improvement coming. Is it 50 points? 60? More? I don’t know but it’s going to be more than you are giving him credit for.

No, that’s not accurate no matter how bad you want it to be. There are virtually no point per game players in the world that just one day got there despite never showing a single skill or attribute that had suggested the potential had been there. And don’t move the goal posts. Oh, is it 50 points, 60 points? No. You specifically said “tracking well” to be a 70 point player AND mentioned point per game, so those ARE the goal posts. Name ONE thing about Laf’s game that makes you feel he will reach 70 to 82+ points. One skill. One thing that he does. Anything.

 

[LokiDog]

I’ve seen enough glimpses of his passing ability to know he can be a 80 point player

How’s the view from your island?

 

[Rangers in 7]

No, that’s not accurate no matter how bad you want it to be. There are virtually no point per game players in the world that just one day got there despite never showing a single skill or attribute that had suggested the potential had been there. And don’t move the goal posts. Oh, is it 50 points, 60 points? No. You specifically said “tracking well” to be a 70 point player AND mentioned point per game, so those ARE the goal posts. Name ONE thing about Laf’s game that makes you feel he will reach 70 to 82+ points. One skill. One thing that he does. Anything.

So tage Thompson who literally could have been had for a 5th round pick showed you ppg stuff?

You are talking out your ass

How’s the view from your island?

Pretty nice, let me know if you can ever afford it…..doubtful though

 

[AirGut]

Does anyone remember that one crisp cross ice pass Laf made in his rookie year that led to a goal? It had people here salivating that he had finally demonstrated the “elite skill” we’d been waiting to see.

I just shook my head at the time. It was a pass. A nice pass but nothing special.

Laf does now have two highlight reel goals to his name. They were identical plays that I am sure we all remember. Those happened. They are a thing.

But again, the goal posts continue to shift for the kid. We continue to cope by kicking the can down the road and denying what our eyes are seeing, saying that all he needs is ice time.

The high end skill just isn’t there. He does not demonstrate it in any area of the ice. And it’s not a consistency issue. He doesn’t flash for awhile and then disappear. He just disappears, scores a couple of workmanlike points every now and then, and then disappears again.

Let’s all continue to hope. There’s nothing else we can do. But what if those early formative years that we already f***ed up are irreversible.

he's a classic change of scenery case. I really think he is going to be a strong 1st or 2nd line winger, a solidified complimentary piece to a core, when he's 26 or 28, but it won't be for the New York Rangers.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but does anyone here think he's pulling a Dubois? I know the entire team looked like utter shit but throughout that entire 7 game stretch he was lifeless and it showed and it directly contributed to our downfall.
I know it might seem reactionary but I think this is an opportune time to move him for someone that can actually contribute for right now. This roster is structured as a win-now team and while that's our own fault it's something we're going to have to deal with if this franchise is going to even sniff a cup in the next 3 years.

Remember when Tampa moved Drouin for Sergachev? Need something like that right about now

 

[DanielBrassard]

So tage Thompson who literally could have been had for a 5th round pick showed you ppg stuff?

You are talking out your ass


Pretty nice, let me know if you can ever afford it…..doubtful though

Tage Thompson is a 6'7 unicorn with unreal hands and a ridiculous shot, and he had those abilities even before he broke out. Not the best comparison to Lafreniere who has below average athleticism and is average sized for an NHL'er.

 

[LokiDog]

So tage Thompson who literally could have been had for a 5th round pick showed you ppg stuff?

You are talking out your ass


Pretty nice, let me know if you can ever afford it…..doubtful though

Tage Thompson is 7ft tall and literally THE exception to the rule. You do know how this shit works right? One outlier out of 100s of cases doesn’t prove any points? This thread is genuinely pathetic.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Tage Thompson is a 6'7 unicorn with unreal hands and a ridiculous shot, and he had those abilities even before he broke out. Not the best comparison to Lafreniere who has below average athleticism and is average sized for an NHL'er.

Thompson as a 21 year old have 12 points in 65 games….but that’s right you saw a “unicorn” must be why the blues traded him……

Tage Thompson is 7ft tall and literally THE exception to the rule. You do know how this shit works right? One outlier out of 100s of cases doesn’t prove any points? This thread is genuinely pathetic.

Lol so there is one exception to your rule? @mas0764 jist gave you zib, I guess he’s an exception. I could give you 100’s of other exceptions.

Just say you hate him and move on

 

[LokiDog]

Thompson as a 21 year old have 12 points in 65 games….but that’s right you saw a “unicorn” must be why the blues traded him……


Lol so there is one exception to your rule? @mas0764 jist gave you zib, I guess he’s an exception. I could give you 100’s of other exceptions.

Just say you hate him and move on

Zib is not an exception. He is a standard case of a successful 5-10 overall pick. Literally.

And I don’t hate Lafreniere I simply think he blows. I am beginning to think I hate obtuse Rangers fans who couldn’t fairly evaluate hockey without a NYR bias if their entire family was being held at gunpoint. If Lafreniere was on ANY other team in the league and they were trying to trade us to him for literally a 2nd round pick you’d be saying no thank you. If someone offered 10 overall this year for Laf, you’d also say no thank you. That’s an intellect that is limited by its bias and I’m pretty much 110% done engaging in conversations with such unfortunate souls. Ciao.

 

[mas0764]

No, that’s not accurate no matter how bad you want it to be.

It’s 100% accurate no matter how badly you want it not to be.

There are virtually no point per game players in the world that just one day got there despite never showing a single skill or attribute that had suggested the potential had been there.

I’d venture to say it’s all of them, actually. Mika didn’t look like he was going to be an 80 point player or he wouldn’t have been traded to us.

And don’t move the goal posts. Oh, is it 50 points, 60 points? No. You specifically said “tracking well” to be a 70 point player AND mentioned point per game, so those ARE the goal posts. Name ONE thing about Laf’s game that makes you feel he will reach 70 to 82+ points. One skill. One thing that he does. Anything.

He does everything that every other player does who never cracked 40 points in their D+3 and then went on to be good.

I’m sorry he doesn’t pass your eye test but your subjective standards are worth very little.

There’s no goalpost moving. I am not guaranteeing anything. It’s very possible that Lafreniere never reaches 70 points in a season.

He’s still tracking well towards being able to do that though. There is no closed book here. Plenty of guys who have shown less than him to this point did eventually get there. He has a good chance still.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Zib is not an exception. He is a standard case of a successful 5-10 overall pick. Literally.

And I don’t hate Lafreniere I simply think he blows. I am beginning to think I hate obtuse Rangers fans who couldn’t fairly evaluate hockey without a NYR bias if their entire family was being held at gunpoint. If Lafreniere was on ANY other team in the league and they were trying to trade us to him for literally a 2nd round pick you’d be saying no thank you. If someone offered 10 overall this year for Laf, you’d also say no thank you. That’s an intellect that is limited by its bias and I’m pretty much 110% done engaging in conversations with such unfortunate souls. Ciao.

If laf was on any other team in the league he’d already be a 60 point player. For gods sake he outscored kreider at ES this year but because kreider is stapled to PP1 he had 17 extra points

It’s like you are blind to this fact

 

[LokiDog]

It’s 100% accurate no matter how badly you want it not to be.



I’d venture to say it’s all of them, actually. Mika didn’t look like he was going to be an 80 point player or he wouldn’t have been traded to us.



He does everything that every other player does who never cracked 40 points in their D+3 and then went on to be good.

I’m sorry he doesn’t pass your eye test but your subjective standards are worth very little.

There’s no goalpost moving. I am not guaranteeing anything. It’s very possible that Lafreniere never reaches 70 points in a season.

He’s still tracking well towards being able to do that though. There is no closed book here. Plenty of guys who have shown less than him to this point did eventually get there. He has a good chance still.

Just say “I can’t answer your question” and take the L. You STILL end your post by saying “he is still tracking well towards being a 70 point player” but refuse to give a single example of HOW he is doing that. By your standard he is doing so by existing. Miller and Schneider are both tracking well to be 100 point defenders. Hey, they’re young enough. Absolutely nothing about their games suggest that type of talent, skill or upside, but… why can’t it happen, right? Fox is tracking pretty well to win NHL’s hardest shot next year too. So far I don’t think he’s ever broken 95 MPH in his life, but who says he can’t shoot 103 next year. Just say it. I can’t point to a single thing about Lafreniere that makes me realistically think he will one day become a point per game player aside from the fact that he’s young. That IS what you’re saying, you’re just dancing around and refusing to SAY it.

 

[mas0764]

Zib is not an exception. He is a standard case of a successful 5-10 overall pick. Literally.

…. Whose career through his D+3 was very similar to Lafreniere’s.

And I don’t hate Lafreniere I simply think he blows. I am beginning to think I hate obtuse Rangers fans who couldn’t fairly evaluate hockey without a NYR bias if their entire family was being held at gunpoint. If Lafreniere was on ANY other team in the league and they were trying to trade us to him for literally a 2nd round pick you’d be saying no thank you. If someone offered 10 overall this year for Laf, you’d also say no thank you. That’s an intellect that is limited by its bias and I’m pretty much

we get it, you don’t like him. You think he’s a bust. Got it.

You are wrong that he can’t turn into a PPG player.

 

[LokiDog]

If laf was on any other team in the league he’d already be a 60 point player. For gods sake he outscored kreider at ES this year but because kreider is stapled to PP1 he had 17 extra points

It’s like you are blind to this fact

Fact. Lafreniere is better than Kreider. That’s a fact and not a truck load of cope. Okay. Welcome to the growing ignore list.

 

[LokiDog]

…. Whose career through his D+3 was very similar to Lafreniere’s.


we get it, you don’t like him. You think he’s a bust. Got it.

You are wrong that he can’t turn into a PPG player.

I’m just asking you to tell me one thing about his on ice play that support this. Not his age. Not his draft status. One thing about his play. Otherwise, sure, he absolutely can “turn into” a PPG player… with the help of his fairy god mother. Hopefully he won’t revert to a pumpkin after.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Fact. Lafreniere is better than Kreider. That’s a fact and not a truck load of cope. Okay. Welcome to the growing ignore list.

Lol I genuinely don’t think you can have an argument with someone else

You’re adding me to your block list because I don’t share your same opinions? Man that’s kinda pathetic don’t you think?

@LokiDog