Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bhamill]

17 players from Laf’s draft class have played 50+ games. 7 from the following draft have played 50+. Zero from last year’s class have reached 50 games. So there’s 24 players who have even played 50 NHL games. Since we’re using a 40 point “season” as the measuring stick, I’m going to adjust even further, to guys with 70+ games. Now there are 20 (19, actually, but Cole Perfetti played 69 so I counted him).

Of those 20, Schneider, Drysdale, Moser, Sanderson and Power are defenseman.

Moser has a 31 point season, playing for Arizona. Drysdale and Sanderson have 32 point seasons. Power has a 38 point season. We have Schneider. No one in the world would trade Power, Drysdale or Sanderson for Laf. I highly doubt AZ would move Moser for Laf (I actually guarantee it but most of you probably don’t even know who he is).

That leaves 15 forwards drafted in the last 3 years who have played a “full season”.

Perfetti has 37 in 69 games. Quinn has 39 in 77. McTavish, Beniers, Johnston, Johnson, Lundell, Jarvis, Mercer, Stutzle and Raymond have eclipsed 40 in individual seasons. That’s 11 of the 15 forwards demonstrably better so far. The only forwards who have played 70 games so far that have gotten off to worse starts than Laf have been Byfield and maybe Chinakov or Peterka. Laf has played the most games of any one drafted since 2020 and has the most abysmal point per game ratio of any player who has had meaningful NHL time. He’s an absolute bust. As guys from the later rounds start debuting, he will fall farther down the list.

We need to stop with the coping and grasping at anything to make ourselves feel better. We drafted the biggest bust in hockey history.

Using PPG as a benchmark gives a nice boost to players who debuted at D+2, 3 or 4 (next season).
You can have whatever opinion you want, but the plain truth of it is deciding a player is what he is at 21 years old, D+3, goes completely against the norm. You think Laf will never be more than a ~40pt physical (141 hits his season) 3rd/2nd liner? That's your prerogative, but you can't demonstrate why anyone else should think that way. Again, our own Mika had a 33 point D+3... and that was without COVID development issues. Personally I think there is a LOT more there. But, no crystal ball so I won't ask you to adopt my opinion.

 

[bhamill]

we complain about the so called garbage and 2 flashy deke goals simply because more is expected of him. in comparison to other top 10 drafted players he'll be expected to get to 50 pts during his D4. but if someone was to point a gun to my head and choose if i think he can reach that point i have to honestly say no.

i pose this: your the opposing coach. you're going to point out which rangers are the threats that your guys have to respect and keep an eye out. usual suspects: fox, kreider, zib, bread. then there are the ones you can sorta cheat away from but still have to respect: chytil, trocheck, and even miller, who has a sneaky shot. laffy-i wouldn't worry about losing any sleep. i'd actually would have more fear for vesey or goodrow.

I've never argued that he is currently a world beater, simply that I've seen flashes during his D+1-3 that tell me there is a lot more there. And sure you can ignore 19 EV goals as a 20 yr old by saying 17.3 is unsustainable as a shooting percentage, but he's had TWO seasons in the 17s and one in the11s, I'd say he's more than capable of a 14-15 norm. Again, since when are players done developing 3 years after being drafted, at 21?

 

[LokiDog]

Using PPG as a benchmark gives a nice boost to players who debuted at D+2, 3 or 4 (next season).
You can have whatever opinion you want, but the plain truth of it is deciding a player is what he is at 21 years old, D+3, goes completely against the norm. You think Laf will never be more than a ~40pt physical (141 hits his season) 3rd/2nd liner? That's your prerogative, but you can't demonstrate why anyone else should think that way. Again, our own Mika had a 33 point D+3... and that was without COVID development issues. Personally I think there is a LOT more there. But, no crystal ball so I won't ask you to adopt my opinion.

No, it doesn’t really go against the norm with 1st overall picks. Everyone who is preaching about waiting until he is 24-25 is going against the norm. Is an average kid who is drafted between 10th and 200th judged after his D+3 this way? No. Are top 3, and especially consensus 1st overall kids going into their 4th year in the league? Yeah. That’s the norm.

Also point per game rates was like 1/10th of my post. 19 players drafted since Laf have played 70+ games. 4 of them are Dmen who have had 31-38 points in a season, not total cobbled together. The other D is Schneider. 14 forwards, 9 who gave eclipsed 40+ points in a single season. Laf is being directly out performed by virtually everyone drafted these past 3 years who has played any meaningful number of games. And six of those 9 forwards who have passed 40 points are on teams still alive in the playoffs, not bottom feeders and - shocker - every single one had multiple points in the first round.

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA and has played over 230 NHL games, including many playoff games. If he were on ANY other team and that teams fans were defending him to us, we would be laughing in their faces and telling them to accept their bust. He is a bust. He has had the literal, factual worst three years of a career of any 1OA in the modern era. We’re gonna have the same conversation next summer and someone will say you can’t judge him in his D+4. Then the following year and someone will say, remember, Chytil didn’t hit 50 points until his D+5. Is D+6 gonna be okay for calling him a bust? Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

 

[ajdj10]

Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

Surely that's going a bit over the top?

A decade isn't anywhere near enough time to be able to judge him.

 

[bleedblue94]

No, it doesn’t really go against the norm with 1st overall picks. Everyone who is preaching about waiting until he is 24-25 is going against the norm. Is an average kid who is drafted between 10th and 200th judged after his D+3 this way? No. Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA and has played over 230 NHL games, including many playoff games. If he were on ANY other team and that teams fans were defending him to us, we would be laughing in their faces and telling them to accept their bust. He is a bust. He has had the literal, factual worst three years of a career of any 1OA in the modern era. We’re gonna have the same conversation next summer and someone will say you can’t judge him in his D+4. Then the following year and someone will say, remember, Chytil didn’t hit 50 points until his D+5. Is D+6 gonna be okay for calling him a bust? Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

I fell all year like this was a big year for him to take a step of some sort, to start to demonstrate some level of standout ability. It didn't need to be consistent but at least to finally see flashes of it maybe once a week or even once every two weeks, I was trying to set the bar extremely low for a number one pick. This year was a complete disaster for him in that regard. Then we approached the playoffs and you have this feeling that this is a really good time for him to stand out again like he did last year because last year in the playoffs he really looked like a contributor, but this year he literally looked like he could have been replaced by almost anybody else. I'm talking if Tanner glass was out there at least he would have been banging bodies on the forecheck. Now we all know that the team played horrific in the playoffs as a group, but specifically for laffy based on his pedigree and draft status you really were hoping to see a repeat of last year to give you some more hope for positivity, and it was just absolutely none of that this year in the playoffs. Extremely disheartening and disappointing. There's no way around it, this summer for him is going to be a massive summer that may potentially define his career, and people that think that that's an egregious statement are trying to lump him into the status of a player drafted outside of the top 10. This guy's been in the league for 3 years already and has done absolutely nothing to really establish himself. If he wasn't a first overall pick nobody would even consider him for having top six upside in his career, he would be viewed as a third liner that might be all the plan a second line when needed. It sucks saying that about somebody that we all had so much hope for, but it's just the reality that he is created through 3 years here, and if there's any truth whatsoever about that information regarding his weight and body index then he is demonstrating that he isn't taking the serious enough, he isn't taking his career serious enough

 

[blue425]

I wasn't suggesting it and I agree with you. More of a commentary that it's going to be the same situation at LW next year as it was this year.

Sorry if it came off aggressive, not my intention. You're right though - he is still going to be buried.

You think they should try and move him?

 

[McRanger92]

No, it doesn’t really go against the norm with 1st overall picks. Everyone who is preaching about waiting until he is 24-25 is going against the norm. Is an average kid who is drafted between 10th and 200th judged after his D+3 this way? No. Are top 3, and especially consensus 1st overall kids going into their 4th year in the league? Yeah. That’s the norm.

Also point per game rates was like 1/10th of my post. 19 players drafted since Laf have played 70+ games. 4 of them are Dmen who have had 31-38 points in a season, not total cobbled together. The other D is Schneider. 14 forwards, 9 who gave eclipsed 40+ points in a single season. Laf is being directly out performed by virtually everyone drafted these past 3 years who has played any meaningful number of games. And six of those 9 forwards who have passed 40 points are on teams still alive in the playoffs, not bottom feeders and - shocker - every single one had multiple points in the first round.

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA and has played over 230 NHL games, including many playoff games. If he were on ANY other team and that teams fans were defending him to us, we would be laughing in their faces and telling them to accept their bust. He is a bust. He has had the literal, factual worst three years of a career of any 1OA in the modern era. We’re gonna have the same conversation next summer and someone will say you can’t judge him in his D+4. Then the following year and someone will say, remember, Chytil didn’t hit 50 points until his D+5. Is D+6 gonna be okay for calling him a bust? Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

So we are going to give up on the only 1st overall pick in franchise history before ever even giving him a chance to sink or swim in the top 6? Because they have not yet done that in his 3 years in the league. I think its a total coin flip Laf is back at all, and he has been a disappointment so far, but the organization failed him. Unrelated but related, no one would take Tage Thompson for a 5th round pick a year ago.

 

[bhamill]

No, it doesn’t really go against the norm with 1st overall picks. Everyone who is preaching about waiting until he is 24-25 is going against the norm. Is an average kid who is drafted between 10th and 200th judged after his D+3 this way? No. Are top 3, and especially consensus 1st overall kids going into their 4th year in the league? Yeah. That’s the norm.

Also point per game rates was like 1/10th of my post. 19 players drafted since Laf have played 70+ games. 4 of them are Dmen who have had 31-38 points in a season, not total cobbled together. The other D is Schneider. 14 forwards, 9 who gave eclipsed 40+ points in a single season. Laf is being directly out performed by virtually everyone drafted these past 3 years who has played any meaningful number of games. And six of those 9 forwards who have passed 40 points are on teams still alive in the playoffs, not bottom feeders and - shocker - every single one had multiple points in the first round.

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA and has played over 230 NHL games, including many playoff games. If he were on ANY other team and that teams fans were defending him to us, we would be laughing in their faces and telling them to accept their bust. He is a bust. He has had the literal, factual worst three years of a career of any 1OA in the modern era. We’re gonna have the same conversation next summer and someone will say you can’t judge him in his D+4. Then the following year and someone will say, remember, Chytil didn’t hit 50 points until his D+5. Is D+6 gonna be okay for calling him a bust? Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

It’s completely illogical to say that because he was picked 1OA that he’s done developing. That’s just kind of ridiculous. As is putting future words in my mouth. The player is a decent physical 3rd/2nd liner at 21, after his D+3. Which is what he was brought along to be so far. He is not done developing. A 21 year old is a 21 year old no matter where he was picked. Hahah. What does biology go in the trash for high picks? No 21 year old is done maturing, growing and developing. How much better he will get remains to be seen, but it’s completely the norm to expect him to get better for a few more years. Your opinions and low expectations don’t change that.
And again, Mika, a 6OA, scored 33 points n his D+3. Huberdeau a 3OA scored 28 in his D+3. The point is that high picks CAN and SOMETIMES do take more time. You’ll excuse me if I don’t just adopt your outlook.

 

[LokiDog]

It’s completely illogical to say that because he was picked 1OA that he’s done developing. That’s just kind of ridiculous. As is putting future words in my mouth. The player is a decent physical 3rd/2nd liner at 21, after his D+3. Which is what he was brought along to be so far. He is not done developing. A 21 year old is a 21 year old no matter where he was picked. Hahah. What does biology go in the trash for high picks? No 21 year old is done maturing, growing and developing. How much better he will get remains to be seen, but it’s completely the norm to expect him to get better for a few more years. Your opinions and low expectations don’t change that.
And again, Mika, a 6OA, scored 33 points n his D+3. Huberdeau a 3OA scored 28 in his D+3. The point is that high picks CAN and SOMETIMES do take more time. You’ll excuse me if I don’t just adopt your outlook.

The difference is that Mika’s D+3 started with 50 games of NHL experience, not 175 and Mika finished with 33 in 69, to Laf’s 39 in 82. Huberdeau’s D+3 began with 48 games of NHL experience, during which he had 31 points in 48.

The reason there is NO comparable for Alexis Lafreniere’s situation is because there IS no comparable - he IS factually the worst performing 1OA in the modern history of hockey. That is a fact. He has had the worst performance through 3 years of any 1OA in the sports history.

 

[CLW]

Fat isn't the right word but I think it's obvious he's carrying too much weight. I have low key thought that since I first saw him on the ice as a Ranger. I've always felt for his height he looks a bit stocky in the midsection and thighs.

He was leaner as a prospect. I think it might make sense to get back to that.

Except I think he's bulked up explicitly on NYR instruction. That's what he did with a personal trainer the summer after the draft before his first season.

 

[Filip Chytil]

Fat isn't the right word but I think it's obvious he's carrying too much weight. I have low key thought that since I first saw him on the ice as a Ranger. I've always felt for his height he looks a bit stocky in the midsection and thighs.

He was leaner as a prospect. I think it might make sense to get back to that.

Dolan's got the cash for a Tummy Tuck surgery for Laf. Get it done!

 

[bhamill]

The difference is that Mika’s D+3 started with 50 games of NHL experience, not 175 and Mika finished with 33 in 69, to Laf’s 39 in 82. Huberdeau’s D+3 began with 48 games of NHL experience, during which he had 31 points in 48.

The reason there is NO comparable for Alexis Lafreniere’s situation is because there IS no comparable - he IS factually the worst performing 1OA in the modern history of hockey. That is a fact. He has had the worst performance through 3 years of any 1OA in the sports history.

I’m 61 and have been watching hockey for 55 years. Whats the “modern history” of hockey? Not that it matters, but I’m curious.
So you are saying that being rushed (in hindsight) to the NHL IS A GIANT ADVANTAGE to Laf as opposed to developing against his peers and not a detriment. Not sure I buy that. Or are you saying not being able to play more games, or in Huberdea’s case, crack an NHL lineup earlier makes them better prospects? Also don’t buy it.
Their D+3
Mika .47 ppg that includes 8 pp points. Avg TOI 17:46 per game
Hub scored 28 points in 59 games in his D+3, .47 ppg. 5 pp points. Avg 16:45 per game.
Laf .48 ppg 4 pp points. Avg 15:13 per game.
These are absolutely comparable. And if you are going to try to tell me that the NYR did more to develop Laf than Ottawa or FL did for their high picks Im going to laugh my ass off. The point remains: he’s not a finished product and there is plenty of runway for great improvement, regardless of how much or how little you and I think he WILL prove.

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

No, it doesn’t really go against the norm with 1st overall picks. Everyone who is preaching about waiting until he is 24-25 is going against the norm. Is an average kid who is drafted between 10th and 200th judged after his D+3 this way? No. Are top 3, and especially consensus 1st overall kids going into their 4th year in the league? Yeah. That’s the norm.

Also point per game rates was like 1/10th of my post. 19 players drafted since Laf have played 70+ games. 4 of them are Dmen who have had 31-38 points in a season, not total cobbled together. The other D is Schneider. 14 forwards, 9 who gave eclipsed 40+ points in a single season. Laf is being directly out performed by virtually everyone drafted these past 3 years who has played any meaningful number of games. And six of those 9 forwards who have passed 40 points are on teams still alive in the playoffs, not bottom feeders and - shocker - every single one had multiple points in the first round.

Lafreniere was the consensus 1OA and has played over 230 NHL games, including many playoff games. If he were on ANY other team and that teams fans were defending him to us, we would be laughing in their faces and telling them to accept their bust. He is a bust. He has had the literal, factual worst three years of a career of any 1OA in the modern era. We’re gonna have the same conversation next summer and someone will say you can’t judge him in his D+4. Then the following year and someone will say, remember, Chytil didn’t hit 50 points until his D+5. Is D+6 gonna be okay for calling him a bust? Maybe he should play a decade so we can be sure.

The problem I continue to have with this organization and how it manages young players is that we'll never know. The early years of a career are formative, and as you note, it's rare for a player at his age to develop into elite or near-elite this late.

Joe Thornton was widely considered a slow starter...7 points in his rookie season, but 70 by age 21.

I do agree that it's unlikely Laf reaches the expectations set for him on draft day. But I've never seen this org manage a star prospect like that. As a matter of fact, I've never seen any team manage top prospects like the Rangers, except teams who've had those prospects bust spectactularly. And he has shown glimpses (not just talking about the 2 forehand backhand goals, talking about his passing ability, hands, etc. mainly)

If the Rangers drafted him, slapped him on the first line and PP1, played him 18+ minutes a night for 3 seasons, and made sure he was on the ice every single time they needed a late goal, I'd have no problem 100% giving up on him if he was still producing 39 points in his 3rd full season with that kind of usage, and none of his skills had improved. Even if they'd done that for the past 2 seasons, I think he would have benefitted.

The problem was we instead had to suffer through a career year by Colin Blackwood and various other irrelevancies to even get to this point, so what's not clear to me is that Laf would have put up these numbers on any team - only that he did on this team.

I have not once seen this organization commit to a top pick - even during the dark ages when they sucked - so the team's inability to develop a single elite, point per game player from draft day to the NHL is equal parts mind-boggling, infuriating, and (I say this lightheartedly) PTSD-triggering when they do insist that top prospects "wait their turn."

And there's still the very real possibility that like Buchnevich or Zuccarello or JT Miller, a guy who's typecast as a "bust" with a 50-60 point "ceiling" goes elsewhere or is run out of town and suddenly figures out how to put up points.

I would rather see them tell him to get his ass in shape, work on his skating, come to camp in the best shape of his life, and be ready to play 20 minutes a night and on the top PP, and actually do it. If the team sucks, and he sucks...fine, at least you know. Move on, and if he's that bad try to do better with the next high pick. But slow playing him does nothing except waste time and change the best case scenario from Thornton (hyperbole at this point, clearly), to Craig Conroy, to eventually 2nd time around Alexandre Daigle. And that helps no one.

 

[LokiDog]

I’m 61 and have been watching hockey for 55 years. Whats the “modern history” of hockey? Not that it matters, but I’m curious.
So you are saying that being rushed (in hindsight) to the NHL IS A GIANT ADVANTAGE to Laf as opposed to developing against his peers and not a detriment. Not sure I buy that. Or are you saying not being able to play more games, or in Huberdea’s case, crack an NHL lineup earlier makes them better prospects? Also don’t buy it.
Their D+3
Mika .47 ppg that includes 8 pp points.
Hub scored 28 points in 59 games in his D+3, .47 ppg. 5 pp points.
Laf .48 ppg 4 pp points.
These are absolutely comparable. And if you are going to try to tell me that the NYR did more to develop Laf than Ottawa or FL did for their high picks Im going to laugh my ass off. The point remains: he’s not a finished product and there is plenty of runway for great improvement, regardless of how much or how little you and I think he WILL prove.

The modern era is widely accepted as everything after the first major expansion. You’d think 50 years following the sport that would be common knowledge. Lafreniere is statistically the worst 1OA during that time. Not because my eye test tells me he is; because the numbers on paper say he is.

Being rushed is not an advantage - experience is. If he was rushed in hindsight than he was not 1OA caliber to begin with and wondering if he ever will be is a moot point. The reason Mika and Huberdeau played less games prior to their D+3 is because they were NOT supposed to be superior prospects. Lafreniere was supposed yo be too good for juniors, NHL ready and the best player available in the draft. If he were anywhere near as good as advertised, then yes, by this point in his career those extra games played and playoff experience would be an advantage over other 21 years old who were say, 25th overall and are just getting their first taste of NHL hockey this year. Laf is expected to have 150+ more games under his belt and be acclimated and do better. Instead he is worse. Again, if he was truly rushed than he had no business being 1OA in the first place and talking about if he’ll eventually live up to that billing is a pointless conversation. If we’re no longer talking about whether or not he’ll ever live up to his draft pedigree and now we’re just discussing whether or not he’s a finished product than no, of course he doesn’t have to be a finished product. The problem is, even if he becomes a 65 point player we are f***ED because without an elite 1OA type we will never get over the hump. Laf can develop into a 60 point player - sure. Great. We replaced Kreider. We’ve won a ton of championships with him as our top talent, right? Personally, I doubt Laf will ever even hit 60 points but for the sake of the conversation, let’s say he does. WHO CARES? Laf eventually becoming a “fine” player doesn’t make up for the fact that both he and Kakko were supposed to be the ELITE cornerstone building blocks for the next 15 years and instead, at BEST, they will both be okay complimentary second liners. Which leaves us stuck in mediocrity for a LONG time.

He has ZERO special attributes. He is literally Jimmy Vesey. I really don’t understand why people can’t divorce themselves from the emotional need for OUR 1OA to be something and accept the fact that the player himself is simply f***ing dreadful.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

17 players from Laf’s draft class have played 50+ games. 7 from the following draft have played 50+. Zero from last year’s class have reached 50 games. So there’s 24 players who have even played 50 NHL games. Since we’re using a 40 point “season” as the measuring stick, I’m going to adjust even further, to guys with 70+ games. Now there are 20 (19, actually, but Cole Perfetti played 69 so I counted him).

Of those 20, Schneider, Drysdale, Moser, Sanderson and Power are defenseman.

Moser has a 31 point season, playing for Arizona. Drysdale and Sanderson have 32 point seasons. Power has a 38 point season. We have Schneider. No one in the world would trade Power, Drysdale or Sanderson for Laf. I highly doubt AZ would move Moser for Laf (I actually guarantee it but most of you probably don’t even know who he is).

That leaves 15 forwards drafted in the last 3 years who have played a “full season”.

Perfetti has 37 in 69 games. Quinn has 39 in 77. McTavish, Beniers, Johnston, Johnson, Lundell, Jarvis, Mercer, Stutzle and Raymond have eclipsed 40 in individual seasons. That’s 11 of the 15 forwards demonstrably better so far. The only forwards who have played 70 games so far that have gotten off to worse starts than Laf have been Byfield and maybe Chinakov or Peterka. Laf has played the most games of any one drafted since 2020 and has the most abysmal point per game ratio of any player who has had meaningful NHL time. He’s an absolute bust. As guys from the later rounds start debuting, he will fall farther down the list.

We need to stop with the coping and grasping at anything to make ourselves feel better. We drafted the biggest bust in hockey history.

Great. Now do the entire analysis again, but show us where all those players played the majority of their ice time in the lineup. How much ice time did they get. How much PP time did they get. How many of their points and goals were on the PP.

 

[bhamill]

The modern era is widely accepted as everything after the first major expansion. You’d have think 50 years following the sport that would be common knowledge. Lafreniere is statistically the worst 1OA during that time. Not because my eye test tells me he is; because the numbers on paper say he is. Being rushed is not an advantage - experience is. If he was rushed in hindsight than he was not 1OA caliber to begin with and wondering if he ever will be is a moot point. He has ZERO special attributes. He is literally Jimmy Vesey. I really don’t understand why people can’t divorce themselves from the emotional need for OUR 1OA to be something and accept the fact that the player himself is simply f***ing dreadful.

“Modern History” Good to know. It basically means zero to me. Til someone uses it to define their argument.
You’re fixated on the specificity of 1OA rather than just being a high pick or a D+3 player. It would matter IF I was saying he is not a disappointment relative to his draft position. But I’m not. I too am disappointed. That’s not the point. I’m giving you examples of high picks who came on greatly after their comparable D+3 seasons. I could make the argument that if ”lesser” picks could do that then a 1OA should have a better chance of it. But I’m not, because it doesn’t matter to the point. Just like you fixating on 1OA draft position doesn’t matter to the point.
I will leave it at that. You can have the last word if you like. I made my point for anyone who may be interested, and there is nothing more to say. I’m not trying to convince you to be hopeful. You do you, bud. It’s all good.

 

[Synergy27]

Does anyone remember that one crisp cross ice pass Laf made in his rookie year that led to a goal? It had people here salivating that he had finally demonstrated the “elite skill” we’d been waiting to see.

I just shook my head at the time. It was a pass. A nice pass but nothing special.

Laf does now have two highlight reel goals to his name. They were identical plays that I am sure we all remember. Those happened. They are a thing.

But again, the goal posts continue to shift for the kid. We continue to cope by kicking the can down the road and denying what our eyes are seeing, saying that all he needs is ice time.

The high end skill just isn’t there. He does not demonstrate it in any area of the ice. And it’s not a consistency issue. He doesn’t flash for awhile and then disappear. He just disappears, scores a couple of workmanlike points every now and then, and then disappears again.

Let’s all continue to hope. There’s nothing else we can do. But what if those early formative years that we already f***ed up are irreversible.

 

[LokiDog]

Great. Now do the entire analysis again, but show us where all those players played the majority of their ice time in the lineup. How much ice time did they get. How much PP time did they get. How many of their points and goals were on the PP.

More cope.

Anton Lundell has played on every line on the Panthers. Dawson Mercer has WAY more EV points and plays the same minutes and kills penalties. Wyatt Johnston didn’t start in Dallas’s top six, he worked his way there.

Laf HAS been given opportunities to play in the top six and on the PP. He simply shits the bed every time he is given an opportunity. Other kids started on third and fourth lines, got those opportunities when there was an injury or a shakeup during a bad game and ran with them. They started on the fourth line, got a taste on the PP, made the most of it so they got another, continued to look good and gets results so they got more… so yeah, they now have a lot more PP minutes. Because they earned them. Every time Laf gets an opportunity he literally does absolutely f***ing nothing with it and THAT is why he doesn’t get MORE. Laf just coasts through life looking like a happy go lucky chucklehead, capitalizing on zero of the opportunities he gets while the cope brigade complains endlessly about how his treatment just hasn’t been fair and if he were drafted by another team he’d already have a 75 point season and have won all star fastest skater and it’s only the big bad Rangers that are at fault and there’s sooooo much potential there (can’t you see it? No… I can’t f***ing see an ounce of it, actually) and he’s just been blocked by veterans and and and and it’s just not his fault. Except it is his fault. He got to play with Zib and Kreider. He got to play with Panarin. He gets to play with Fox. He just sucks. Oh well.

 

[ajdj10]

Does anyone remember that one crisp cross ice pass Laf made in his rookie year that led to a goal? It had people here salivating that he had finally demonstrated the “elite skill” we’d been waiting to see.

I just shook my head at the time. It was a pass. A nice pass but nothing special.

People here were getting an erection from him just laying a hit last playoffs.
Like you know you're in trouble with your 1OA when your fans get excited from a simple hit...

 

[mas0764]

Except I think he's bulked up explicitly on NYR instruction. That's what he did with a personal trainer the summer after the draft before his first season.

Here’s where we cue the “Rangers are misdeveloping their kids,” line again. It’s true.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Great. Now do the entire analysis again, but show us where all those players played the majority of their ice time in the lineup. How much ice time did they get. How much PP time did they get. How many of their points and goals were on the PP.

Without talking about ice time or usage tell us what about Lafreniere's skills or physical attributes suggests he will ever become a high-end NHL player. I see all this rationalizing about if he just got used properly but no one can actually describe what it is about his game that will eventually blossom into something special.

 

[ReddestRum]

People here were getting an erection from him just laying a hit last playoffs.
Like you know you're in trouble with your 1OA when your fans get excited from a simple hit...

After games where Laf continuously throughout this season goes on long stretches of nothing, the PGT's were great to read.

"I thought Laf played a great game. He made a good pass in that game. If x buried it he would have a point."

And I'm like, you're describing hundreds of joe schmoes in the NHL at that given moment who made a gatdamn pass in a game that another player didn't bury, and that made him look good? This is what we're grasping and holding onto?? Lol. Like, we literally have had the 4th liners outplaying the kids in stretches and it really does look like cope when we're hollering over a pass, or a hit, or one of a thousand plays that you would expect even an AHL'r to make.

I can't imagine what celebration success parties were planned in the heads of people that shit their pants watching him toe drag that backhand goal.

 

[Crease]

After games where Laf continuously throughout this season goes on long stretches of nothing, the PGT's were great to read.

"I thought Laf played a great game. He made a good pass in that game. If x buried it he would have a point.

God I hate those takes. Imagine how many more points McDavid would have if his linemates buried passes they should have. No player is more unlucky than another.

 

[mas0764]

It can be true that Lafreniere is disappointing as a first overall pick and also true that he tracks well to still some day be a 70 point winger.

There are plenty of other players who produced equal or less through their D+3 years who went on to be superstars.

Were any of them first overall picks? For argument sake let’s say no. So what? His selection spot is water under the bridge. The question isn’t whether he is going to equal other first overall picks. The question is whether he still is projectable to develop into a star.

His usage and PPG says yes he can still turn into a point per game player, many other prospects have with his output at his age/experience.

He has work to do but he’s not a finished product and dumping him would be insane. If someone is giving me the second overall pick this year that’s a different story; but they aren’t.

 

[LokiDog]

It can be true that Lafreniere is disappointing as a first overall pick and also true that he tracks well to still some day be a 70 point winger.

There are plenty of other players who produced equal or less through their D+3 years who went on to be superstars.

Were any of them first overall picks? For argument sake let’s say no. So what? His selection spot is water under the bridge. The question isn’t whether he is going to equal other first overall picks. The question is whether he still is projectable to develop into a star.

His usage and PPG says yes he can still turn into a point per game player, many other prospects have with his output at his age/experience.

He has work to do but he’s not a finished product and dumping him would be insane. If someone is giving me the second overall pick this year that’s a different story; but they aren’t.

I will film myself eating an entire Rangers jersey if Lafreniere EVER has a point per game season.

WHAT about his game suggests he can be a star or a 70+ point player? Which skill or attribute makes you think there is a hope in hell of this happening? I’m not being facetious - I genuinely want you to tell me what about Alexis Lafreniere suggests even a HINT of “future 70 point player” (let alone point per game).

You said his usage and ppg suggest he can still be a star. You said “he can be disappointing for a 1st overall and still also track WELL to one day be a 70 point player”. Specifically WHAT about tracks well? And more importantly, what do you SEE that suggest to you that with 90 more seconds of ES ice time per game and 2 minutes of PP time per game, he would go from a 39 point player to an 70-82+ point player.

I’ve asked a dozen posters this question. I’ve seen 5 other posters ask you guys this question. It never gets answered.

WHAT (besides his draft position, since we are all wrong for judging him based off his draft position) do you see that suggests to you there is ANY hope that this kid will one day be a 70-85 point player?