Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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Just say “I can’t answer your question” and take the L. You STILL end your post by saying “he is still tracking well towards being a 70 point player” but refuse to give a single example of HOW he is doing that.

I’ve said it multiple times now. By improving like every other D+3 player who didn’t crack 40 points and lacked elite skills but then developed and got better. Like Zibanejad. Like Tage Thompson. Etc.

By your standard he is doing so by existing. Miller and Schneider are both tracking well to be 100 point defenders. Hey, they’re young enough. Absolutely nothing about their games suggest that type of talent, skill or upside, but… why can’t it happen, right?

To my knowledge there aren’t a bevy of 21 year old defenders who in their D+3 put up 18 points and then went on to be 100 point defenders, so no.

I can’t point to a single thing about Lafreniere that makes me realistically think he will one day become a point per game player aside from the fact that he’s young.

Well I’m sorry you have such a tenuous grasp on the history of high end draft pick development. I’ll pray for you.
 
I’m just asking you to tell me one thing about his on ice play that support this. Not his age. Not his draft status. One thing about his play. Otherwise, sure, he absolutely can “turn into” a PPG player… with the help of his fairy god mother. Hopefully he won’t revert to a pumpkin after.
I’m not interested in playing the “name that skill,” game with you. If I say one thing, you’ll dispute it.

The part you are flat wrong about is that his skills on ice are weaker than other players who have made similar projected leaps.

Laf’s problems are first mental and second he’s a bit slow of a skater. Both correctable and the rest of his game can grow like many other players have.

He’s already scored 19 goals in this league and 39 points. Projected growth to increase those numbers to 30-40-70 with PP time would not take a revolutionary new set of skills for him. He’s a smart player, he’s a good passer, he has a decent shot, and he has a knack for making plays. All those things can get way better as he gets older.

Fact. Lafreniere is better than Kreider. That’s a fact and not a truck load of cope. Okay. Welcome to the growing ignore list.
Speaking of a player who I have to wonder what it is he does…. (Besides get tip ins).

I don’t think Lafreniere is very far removed from Kreider, honestly. Kreider is better but that could change as early as next season.
 
what? you wonder what is it exactly does kreider do? 'dog has been asking you what one specific skill does laffy possess and all you've done is totally avoid answering and instead choose to deflect and then come up with what does kreider do type of shit?
 
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I’ve said it multiple times now. By improving like every other D+3 player who didn’t crack 40 points and lacked elite skills but then developed and got better. Like Zibanejad. Like Tage Thompson. Etc.



To my knowledge there aren’t a bevy of 21 year old defenders who in their D+3 put up 18 points and then went on to be 100 point defenders, so no.



Well I’m sorry you have such a tenuous grasp on the history of high end draft pick development. I’ll pray for you.

So… you can’t do it. You can’t say “his skating/hands/shot/vision/tenacity”. You can’t point to one thing. I guarantee you could have pointed to several attributes with young Zib. WHAT makes you feel good about Laf’s future? You can’t answer.
 
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what? you wonder what is it exactly does kreider do? 'dog has been asking you what one specific skill does laffy possess and all you've done is totally avoid answering and instead choose to deflect and then come up with what does kreider do type of shit?
I told dog before he blocked me laf is an excellent passer of the puck

All I said was kreider was outscored by laf at ES. I don’t see anyone say kreider sucks ass?
 
I told dog before he blocked me laf is an excellent passer of the puck

All I said was kreider was outscored by laf at ES. I don’t see anyone say kreider sucks ass?
ay long island we're good. it's that other guy. read what he posted. if he posted the music group hall n oates - what does oates exactly do - ok that's funny. but he posted kreider - an unfunny troll attempt.
 
So… you can’t do it. You can’t say “his skating/hands/shot/vision/tenacity”. You can’t point to one thing. I guarantee you could have pointed to several attributes with young Zib. WHAT makes you feel good about Laf’s future? You can’t answer.
I have answered already. He, like all the other players who didn’t show they had 80 point skills, didn’t have a lethal shot or skate like the wind yet, will get better.

You didn’t watch Zibanejad in Ottawa so you can’t guarantee that.
 
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here's something to ponder - being on the same line and carrying laffy for 2 seasons could have stymied speedier development of both chytil and kaako.
Maybe they don't feel that connected with Lafreniere on that line anymore. I mean afterall it's two Euro guys playing with a player that's played in NA all his life. It is different mental styles trying to mesh and breakout all at once and at times that could be something that adds onto the shit pile. A teams third-line is a motor for the rest of the group, and the "kid-line" just didn't bring it this year when the rest of the group needed it. Everything that worked in 2022 has now been thrown out the window. They looked so good together during that run and this 7 game stretch you'd think they just met eachother for the first time
 
I just don't understand how the scouts all seemingly got it so wrong. What was he supposed to be good at in his draft year? I think I first heard of him somewhere in 2016-2017 here on HF. Highly touted for a while. What were his best attributes as a player? It's just unbelievable that our only 1OA can be such a major bust.
 
I just don't understand how the scouts all seemingly got it so wrong. What was he supposed to be good at in his draft year? I think I first heard of him somewhere in 2016-2017 here on HF. Highly touted for a while. What were his best attributes as a player? It's just unbelievable that our only 1OA can be such a major bust.

I think the kid has been content to be fat and happy on the 3rd line because thats what's been asked of him. Now because of his lack of self improvement he finds himself on the chopping block as much as anyone. If they can find a deal for a young veteran with term who fits a need, I'd be very open to a move.
 
The only thing he's missing is skating.

I firmly believe that getting the kid to a skating professional and basically re-doing his stride is what is needed. He just cannot build up speed.
 
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As far as predictions on Lafreniere: I haven't said, and I haven't seen anyone else say, that he WILL be a star or WILL be a point per game player. Just that the door hasn't closed on that possibility. Numerous recent examples of other players (Tage, Mika, Huberdeau) who had similar careers through their D+3 and later broke out were given. I'm not sure how any rational person just ignores the fact that this is a thing that DOES happen.

What does Laf do well? What I've seen him do well, and sometimes VERY well:
Pass, go to the dirty areas and finish, finish his checks (second to Trocheck amongst NYR forwards) sometimes VERY heavily (he annihilated Okposo in the last BUF game), backcheck (one of the few noticeably doing this in the Devils series), shoot (his backhand is better than most), stick up for his teammates (how many young high picks do you see dropping their gloves for a teammate? Not many not named Tkachuck). He has two highlight goals, one of which the ESPN or TNT or whoever announcers were calling "the goal of the year." You cant make that play once if you don't have the ability, hands and talent to do it, never mind twice. So YES he HAS the skills. And he is 21 ALL of these things can be improved on, as can his physical and mental maturity, his confidence level, his strength and conditioning and his SKATING.
So yeah, I think there is a LOT more there than we've regularly seen, and it's POSSIBLE for him to still break out. I still never say untouchable, but I say it would be idiotic to sell low like we would be doing right now. Panic moves never work out.
And AGAIN, like all of you, I have no crystal ball, there are no Guarantees, just potential and possibilities. You don't have to agree with my opinion of what he will be, but you can't rationally demonstrate that this is all he is and will ever be either.
 
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As far as predictions on Lafreniere: I haven't said, and I haven't seen anyone else say, that he WILL be a star or WILL be a point per game player. Just that the door hasn't closed on that possibility. Numerous recent examples of other players (Tage, Mika, Huberdeau) who had similar careers through their D+3 and later broke out were given. I'm not sure how any rational person just ignores the fact that this is a thing that DOES happen.

It's basically dishonesty to sit here and say "Well I can identify traits X and Y that Mika had.... ten years ago when he was playing for the Senators when I definitely wasn't paying attention to him.... and Lafreniere doesn't have any of those traits because he does nothing well. No one can name one single thing he does well."

That analysis is tinged with "I've already made up my mind that he sucks at everything."

Well that's just patently absurd. While admitting he's disappointing as a 1OA, it's simply not true that he's THAT far behind, or not on par with, the skill set at age 21 of other top 5-10 picks who have gone on to be stars. The dude has scored 19 goals one year, 39 points another. If he has "no" skills then he couldn't have done those things. Improvement is definitely caked into any projection.

Sure, someone who isn't actually an NHL player can't be assumed to "keep improving till they are an All Star," but that's because that person never had NHL skills to begin with and Lafreniere did. He had the passing skill, the shooting skill, the knack for making plays, all those things existed.

The reason those things aren't standing out at this level is his decision making and his speed. It's holding all those things back. Like it did many other players who were 21 and not showing out in the NHL but eventually put it together and who we've named a handful. Oh, I guess because Mika showed off a powerful slapshot those two or three times in highlight reels, that's what meant Mika was going to get better, that "ONE" skill I could name.... a skill which DIDN'T translate for hundreds of other prospects who had great slapshots but couldn't become NHL regulars.

The entire "name one skill he's good at," is a complete misdirection and red herring. It's borderline dishonesty. It's not good faith arguing.

Lafreniere has lots of skills. That's not his problem.

His problem is his skating and decision making. He doesn't think the game at an NHL level/speed yet. He doesn't position himself in the right spots in the offensive zone. To an extent I'd also believe it's his conditioning and possibly dedication to improvement. If those things improve the player will take off. If they don't improve he probably tops out as a 20-20 type guy, third liner. That's eminently possible.

Miss me with this "he sucks at everything" baloney. Agenda city. I'm not getting sucked into a debate where someone with their mind made up on fiction can try to tear down every analysis of his wrist shot or deking ability.
 
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Anyone who says Lafreniere "sucks at everything" should look up Tage Thompson on hockey reference. He did far less in his first 3 seasons in the league and he is now a borderline Hart candidate. 13 is not untouchable by any stretch, and he needs to get his shit together on an individual level if he wants to amount to anything in the league, but the amount of people trying to run the highest pick in team history out of town without ever once having a firm top 6 + PP role is asinine.
 
Anyone who says Lafreniere "sucks at everything" should look up Tage Thompson on hockey reference. He did far less in his first 3 seasons in the league and he is now a borderline Hart candidate. 13 is not untouchable by any stretch, and he needs to get his shit together on an individual level if he wants to amount to anything in the league, but the amount of people trying to run the highest pick in team history out of town without ever once having a firm top 6 + PP role is asinine.
if memory serves me correctly the coach did place him in the top 6 on several occasions. had the kid performed well on a consistent basis then the trades for kane and tank wouldn't have been needed. maybe for one of them but not for both. and if i also do recall wasn't there a very very brief stretch when in over to accommodate this kid an all star was shifted to his off wing?

and why bring up tage thompson? he wasn't 1OA. also during his time with the blues his role there was to just be this one gigantic body to crush. and whose idea was that? could it have been mike yeo? and who was the coach in buffalo before thompson''s breakthrough? krueger-the guy who almost ruined skinner's career.
 
if memory serves me correctly the coach did place him in the top 6 on several occasions. had the kid performed well on a consistent basis then the trades for kane and tank wouldn't have been needed. maybe for one of them but not for both. and if i also do recall wasn't there a very very brief stretch when in over to accommodate this kid an all star was shifted to his off wing?

and why bring up tage thompson? he wasn't 1OA. also during his time with the blues his role there was to just be this one gigantic body to crush. and whose idea was that? could it have been mike yeo? and who was the coach in buffalo before thompson''s breakthrough? krueger-the guy who almost ruined skinner's career.
you literally explained why laf plays like a third line grinder in your post

the rangers have basically told laf we want you to play well defensively. i can only speak from my personal experience but when you are told to do something youve never done in your life and also simultaneously not put in positions that you have succeeded your whole life doing it messes with your head
 
you literally explained why laf plays like a third line grinder in your post

the rangers have basically told laf we want you to play well defensively. i can only speak from my personal experience but when you are told to do something youve never done in your life and also simultaneously not put in positions that you have succeeded your whole life doing it messes with your head
ahh the choice of player usage. well the thing is this: if you're given, or even maybe earned, the opportunity to move up to the top 6 and then proceed to fumble those chances then there is nowhere else to go but back down. the kid was given chances in the top 6 to show all the things that he has done in his life on ice, with very scant success. as a result he was demoted and thus his job became to become part of the kid line.

a lot on here don't really gallant (and yes they are merited to an extent) but for me i detest yeo and krueger 100X more than anyone who can't stand gallant.
 
Anyone who says Lafreniere "sucks at everything" should look up Tage Thompson on hockey reference. He did far less in his first 3 seasons in the league and he is now a borderline Hart candidate. 13 is not untouchable by any stretch, and he needs to get his shit together on an individual level if he wants to amount to anything in the league, but the amount of people trying to run the highest pick in team history out of town without ever once having a firm top 6 + PP role is asinine.

This is why I’m not keen on shipping of young players. Plus we get to take advantage of the fact that they’re not going to be expensive. Even if trade then you have to replace them, and whose out there that’s going to take the team over the hump?

Also let’s look at our own history. The Rangers have drafted and developed players that are currently having nice careers. We traded Miller for NOTHING, and he’s a become a helluva player. If you keep him we have a 1A/B situation with Zibanejad up the middle. Buch currently is a PPG player on a great contract.
 
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This is why I’m not keen on shipping of young players. Plus we get to take advantage of the fact that they’re not going to be expensive. Even if trade then you have to replace them, and whose out there that’s going to take the team over the hump?

Also let’s look at our own history. The Rangers have drafted and developed players that are currently having nice careers. We traded Miller for NOTHING, and he’s a become a helluva player. If you keep him we have a 1A/B situation with Zibanejad up the middle. Buch currently is a PPG player on a great contract.

Lafreniere should only be moved for a clear upgrade now, and in future years. Barring that, hold the stock.
 
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