Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[McRanger92]

The Rangers are not moving Laf.

I see no reason why he’d be untouchable

 

[DanielBrassard]

I see no reason why he’d be untouchable

He's not untouchable.

 

[Peltz]

I see no reason why he’d be untouchable

He's a first overall and Rangers have never had one before. They probably wouldn't make the move just out of fear of him succeeding elsewhere.

 

[Greg02]

Even if you wanted to trade him I don't see how you get reasonable value for the potential. There's too big a gap between the performance and the pedigree.

He's fine as a third liner.

 

[bhamill]

fair enough - and while i have always liked the Rangers (since Cool hand - Ron Duguay lol) - my thinking in such a trade would be that you save the extra money on the ELC for the next three years, which buys extra time in your current window to add another piece this summer. But you are right, Slaf is raw - but his compete level is through the roof.. in that his numbers are actually quite impressive on such a bad team (with brutal washed up vet scrubs) for the most of his time here. He was about to make the leap to 2nd line duty centred by Monahan, but then Money got hurt and well, our depth drops drastically after top line.

I would say there is more risk in Laff rn than Slaf - seeing as Laff does have incredibly talented players around him and has been unable to impress. Slaf has been a 4th liner with garbage linemates. I never get invested in players (im too old for that) I just like to thjink of trades that both teams could agree on.. part of the fun of being a fan.

Yeah. I’m not running Slaf down, I think he will be a good one, I just feel like he will also take time. As far as the cap savings, realistically Laf will probably get a deal similar to Kakko, about 2x2mil a year, not exactly a bank breaker. All good points, bud, but I’d still dread Laf breaking out in MTL while we are still developing Slaf. Hahaha.

 

[EdJovanovski]

fair enough - and while i have always liked the Rangers (since Cool hand - Ron Duguay lol) - my thinking in such a trade would be that you save the extra money on the ELC for the next three years, which buys extra time in your current window to add another piece this summer. But you are right, Slaf is raw - but his compete level is through the roof.. in that his numbers are actually quite impressive on such a bad team (with brutal washed up vet scrubs) for the most of his time here. He was about to make the leap to 2nd line duty centred by Monahan, but then Money got hurt and well, our depth drops drastically after top line.

I would say there is more risk in Laff rn than Slaf - seeing as Laff does have incredibly talented players around him and has been unable to impress. Slaf has been a 4th liner with garbage linemates. I never get invested in players (im too old for that) I just like to thjink of trades that both teams could agree on.. part of the fun of being a fan.

Slaf also has some stand out skills/physical attributes. Laf is the most bland 1st overall ever

 

[TopShelfSnipes]

All I can say about Laf is that this ice time will hopefully help him. I'm not thrilled with his performance, but in these two games against bottom feeders, he very nearly scored twice (three times if you count getting his shot blocked at the EN), and also could have easily had an assist. He was wide open down low in the Dallas game too, but Panarin didn't pass to him.

The results are not there, I want to see his compete better, and I want to see him be stronger on the puck, but it's not like he's Sammy Blais just going for a skate, turning the puck over, and occasionally throwing a body check.

I find it ironic all the people comparing him to Kovalev, talking about how much Kovalev stood out when the book on Kovalev in his first stint as a Rangers was always disappearing for long stretches. Kovalev went through an 18 game goal drought to start the 1998 season, and it looked like he'd never score again. Finally got one, and it was overturned because that was the year the league went bananas with crease violations, and it took Kovalev a few more weeks to finally get one that counted. Then, he got one, his confidence grew, and he went on a little hot streak...and then went through a 16 game goal drought later in the same season. And all of this was well into his career by that point, in his 6th season in the league, long after his virtuouso 1994 playoffs performance that led you to believe he'd be equal in skill and output to vintage Alexander Mogilny by then.

Team eventually gave up on him, and 2 seasons later he was scoring 95 points in Pittsburgh.

Not saying Laf is going to do that, but if you look closely you can see the potential, it's just not the "flashy" potential most are looking for. And that's fine, lots of good players eventually come to put up points in different ways. I'm most concerned by his lack of confidence shooting the puck, and would like to see him let it rip more since if he needs a goal to get out of his funk then by all means fire the puck. As much as I wanted to see him pot the ENG, I don't think that gets his confidence back the same way beating a goalie would.

Looking to trade him is just stupid at this point. There's clearly a lot more there, but if nothing else I hope that this little stint shows him that he's got a lot of work to do in the offseason physically, and in the meantime he can work on the mental/technical aspects of his game.

Obviously when Kreider returns, he'll get his spot back on the top line (which is definitely correct), but I would like to see Laf more on the PP the rest of the season b/c he was doing the right things generally (the bad penalty aside), but just like the NYR PP has criminally underutilized Kreider all year, the PP wasn't exactly giving him a chance to shine either.

 

[huerter]

Between Kreider and Laf, who is better at zone entries, puck retrieval, and finding outlets against pressure? You guys talk about the PP like we get to set up shop and then the ref blows his whistle to start the action. Even if that was the case, you know who is better in front of the net? The guy with 88 career tucks on the PP.

 

[bhamill]

Between Kreider and Laf, who is better at zone entries, puck retrieval, and finding outlets against pressure? You guys talk about the PP like we get to set up shop and then the ref blows his whistle to start the action. Even if that was the case, you know who is better in front of the net? The guy with 88 career tucks on the PP.

People don’t say they’d like to see Laf on the PP because he’s BETTER than Kreider, they say it because they think it will help Laf’s development. I can understand that. I can also understand not wanting to make that change.

 

[JHS]

Averaged 19:10 the past 3 games. 3 total shots on goal and… that’s it.

But wait all the development experts on here said if he just gets more ice time and gifted powerplay time everything would be fixed???!! It’s almost like they knew less than the NHL coaches they so often attack for not knowing anything!

Laf showed something last night that was better than his usual MIA like efforts. Perhaps he just needs to play against one of the worst teams in NHL Recent history to look decent.

 

[bleedblue94]

But wait all the development experts on here said if he just gets more ice time and gifted powerplay time everything would be fixed???!! It’s almost like they knew less than the NHL coaches they so often attack for not knowing anything!

Laf showed something last night that was better than his usual MIA like efforts. Perhaps he just needs to play against one of the worst teams in NHL Recent history to look decent.

Do you think today as a player he looks anywhere like he was even two months ago? He's literally at the worst point that he's played in his NHL career and now is when you're going to bump up his ice time, and even worse try to make critical comments about people who advocated for more ice time back when he was actually playing better earlier in the year? Weird

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

I think there’s a bit of a misconception if anyone thinks someone was saying that if Laffy got ice time and powerplay time for all of 3 games that he would magically turn his entire game around.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Averaged 19:10 the past 3 games. 3 total shots on goal and… that’s it.

It’s unfortunate, you should watch the games. He had a few good chances and made some nice plays yesterday. Oh well, it’s to be expected at this point from a few posters. We get it, you don’t like him. Guess if he took a few garbage shots from the outside that would have been better for you since shots mean everything

 

[irishlaxburger2]

I think there’s a bit of a misconception if anyone thinks someone was saying that if Laffy got ice time and powerplay time for all of 3 games that he would magically turn his entire game around.

People fail to realize that growth and development are not overnight things, and also that they’re not linear. It’s very often a “two steps forward, one step back” scenario.

These same people were hoping to move Kakko just last season. They also forget Chytil only scored 8 goals last regular season.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

It’s unfortunate, you should watch the games. He had a few good chances and made some nice plays yesterday. Oh well, it’s to be expected at this point from a few posters. We get it, you don’t like him. Guess if he took a few garbage shots from the outside that would have been better for you since shots mean everything

To expand on that, I don’t think generating shots for himself is Laffys game. Never has been. He’s a natural playmaker first. If you’re using shots as the only metric to judge him, its disingenuous at best, at worst you just don’t know the player.

 

[Ruggs225]

Im sort of resigned that he just isnt going to do well this year. He is in his head too much. Maybe after all star break he can clear his head.

This offseason is going to be critical for him. He needs to get quicker and stronger.

Still havent given up hope on him.

Also hope gallant is canned and we can have a coach with some semblance of an offensive system.

 

[bhamill]

I think there’s a bit of a misconception if anyone thinks someone was saying that if Laffy got ice time and powerplay time for all of 3 games that he would magically turn his entire game around.

Misconception is a very kind way of putting it. It’s disingenuous or outright dumb, take your pick. Hahahah

 

[LokiDog]

It’s unfortunate, you should watch the games. He had a few good chances and made some nice plays yesterday. Oh well, it’s to be expected at this point from a few posters. We get it, you don’t like him. Guess if he took a few garbage shots from the outside that would have been better for you since shots mean everything

It’s pretty clear when I watch the game as I’m in the GDT and I’ve been around these boards long enough that I think people know me mostly as being level headed. Laf didn’t make a couple of nice plays. He had a couple of moments where he looked like an NHL player who knew what to do and where to go. A nice play is Kakko’s pass to Zib and Zib’s finish. A nice play is either of Miller’s recent highlight reel goals. Laf has had a couple of glimpses in his top six stint where he looks AS competent in the offensive zone as Barclay Goodrow.

And I think this is actually THE number one issue I have - we are so desperate for the kids NOT to be busts that we extrapolate things like “skating in the right direction” or “being open, but Panarin didn’t pass to him” into “a couple of nice plays”. Laf hasn’t made a nice play all damn year. He occasionally steps out of his fugue state, 10 steps behind the play, comatose behavior and looks like an average NHL middle six body. We celebrate when it happens like “oh… oh… signs of life! Look at that, Laf read a pass and picked it off… he’s coming along!”

It isn’t that I dislike Laf either. It’s the fact that there are some here who really need to hold on to this notion that it’s only the organization that sucks and the second Laf goes somewhere else he’s going to ram it down our throats and turn into the he next Joe Thornton, and they basically act like Laf can do no wrong, he oozes untapped potential the rest of us fools just can’t see, and it’s all down to the evil NYR anti-development agenda and our inept coaches for using him wrong.

I’d be willing to put a long wager on Laf being an “official” bust 7 years from now. It’s as simple as that. I wanted him to be a star or at least a fixture. I like him - the Off The Boards segments and behind the scenes stuff make him seem like a good kid. I just don’t believe in him anymore. I don’t see any thing in his game that makes me say he’s going to produce, he’s going to be a player, he’s going to figure it out. I just see people telling me how good his EV production is and how that’s significant. I just don’t see it. That’s the problem. I don’t believe he has the tools a small handful claim they still see and no matter how I frame that, I get EV point totals and “well he’s got the same EV points as Trochek so… clearly Laf isn’t the problem and it’s the coach”. I’m tired of clinging to marginal moral victories like “well he was really open but Bread didn’t feed him” or “he has as many EV points as Trochek” as the proof that this kid actually has a single tool in his toolbox that will make him a successful NHL top line forward.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It’s pretty clear when I watch the game as I’m in the GDT and I’ve been around these boards long enough that I think people know me mostly as being level headed. Laf didn’t make a couple of nice plays. He had a couple of moments where he looked like an NHL player who knew what to do and where to go. A nice play is Kakko’s pass to Zib and Zib’s finish. A nice play is either of Miller’s recent highlight reel goals. Laf has had a couple of glimpses in his top six stint where he looks AS competent in the offensive zone as Barclay Goodrow.

And I think this is actually THE number one issue I have - we are so desperate for the kids NOT to be busts that we extrapolate things like “skating in the right direction” or “being open, but Panarin didn’t pass to him” into “a couple of nice plays”. Laf hasn’t made a nice play all damn year. He occasionally steps out of his fugue state, 10 steps behind the play, comatose behavior and looks like an average NHL middle six body. We celebrate when it happens like “oh… oh… signs of life! Look at that, Laf read a pass and picked it off… he’s coming along!”

It isn’t that I dislike Laf either. It’s the fact that there are some here who really need to hold on to this notion that it’s only the organization that sucks and the second Laf goes somewhere else he’s going to ram it down our throats and turn into the he next Joe Thornton, and they basically act like Laf can do no wrong, he oozes untapped potential the rest of us fools just can’t see, and it’s all down to the evil NYR anti-development agenda and our inept coaches for using him wrong.

I’d be willing to put a long wager on Laf being an “official” bust 7 years from now. It’s as simple as that. I wanted him to be a star or at least a fixture. I like him - the Off The Boards segments and behind the scenes stuff make him seem like a good kid. I just don’t believe in him anymore. I don’t see any thing in his game that makes me say he’s going to produce, he’s going to be a player, he’s going to figure it out. I just see people telling me how good his EV production is and how that’s significant. I just don’t see it. That’s the problem. I don’t believe he has the tools a small handful claim they still see and no matter how I frame that, I get EV point totals and “well he’s got the same EV points as Trochek so… clearly Laf isn’t the problem and it’s the coach”. I’m tired of clinging to marginal moral victories like “well he was really open but Bread didn’t feed him” or “he has as many EV points as Trochek” as the proof that this kid actually has a single tool in his toolbox that will make him a successful NHL top line forward.

Remember last season when everyone was telling us how exemplary Lafreniere was at finding loose pucks that were planted literally at the doorstep for him to gently sweep into the net with no one within feet of him and how that was a big reason why he was such a prolific and efficient goal scorer at 5v5? Whoops, guess the Rangers development staff claimed another victim because that skillset has disappeared, imagine that.

 

[Bacon Artemi Bravo]

It's clear some of us will be eating crow by the spoonful in a few years once the dust settles.

I fully back Laffy and am still in his camp. Always have been. I think he's going to be a very good player. I think a lot of people in here are way too hyper focused game to game and need to realize that for some players, it takes time to adapt. Laffy has tons of skill, he's still figuring out how that all fits in the NHL game. Lastly, his personality is what is going to help him overcome all of this negativity. He's a humble, hard working kid. Much different than busts of the past.

I'm willing to admit if I do end up being wrong, hopefully the rest of you will be willing to do the same,

 

[Bob Richards]

Call it residual hope, call it spite. I don’t know. But I’d rather eat glass than trade Lafreniere at this stage.

I criticize him constantly and he drives me insane but I do not want to trade him. If our first (real) 1st overall pick sucks then so be it.

If we trade him 10 cents on the dollar and it turns out that he doesn’t suck, I will be watching all future rangers games in a straight jacket in my new residence at the funny farm.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Call it residual hope, call it spite. I don’t know. But I’d rather eat glass than trade Lafreniere at this stage.

I criticize him constantly and he drives me insane but I do not want to trade him. If our first (real) 1st overall pick sucks then so be it.

If we trade him 10 cents on the dollar and it turns out that he doesn’t suck, I will be watching all future rangers games in a straight jacket in my new residence at the funny farm.

I'll save you the room next to mine at Happy Dale Sanitarium.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Since @GENESISPuck94 is too afraid to answer my question, I will ask you. Simple yes or no.

Do you think Laf will develop into a better player than Panarin and/or Zibanejad if he gets an extended look on PP1 and whatever other situational minutes you think he needs.

Yes or no.

I've been busy, it's been a long two weeks, I wasn't home all weekend either because of my "job".

Better player? I think he can put up similar numbers in his mid-20s.

 

[Peltz]

Call it residual hope, call it spite. I don’t know. But I’d rather eat glass than trade Lafreniere at this stage.

I criticize him constantly and he drives me insane but I do not want to trade him. If our first (real) 1st overall pick sucks then so be it.

If we trade him 10 cents on the dollar and it turns out that he doesn’t suck, I will be watching all future rangers games in a straight jacket in my new residence at the funny farm.

yep pretty much this. I would rather he suck here than have him succeed elsewhere.

 

[bhamill]

It’s pretty clear when I watch the game as I’m in the GDT and I’ve been around these boards long enough that I think people know me mostly as being level headed. Laf didn’t make a couple of nice plays. He had a couple of moments where he looked like an NHL player who knew what to do and where to go. A nice play is Kakko’s pass to Zib and Zib’s finish. A nice play is either of Miller’s recent highlight reel goals. Laf has had a couple of glimpses in his top six stint where he looks AS competent in the offensive zone as Barclay Goodrow.

And I think this is actually THE number one issue I have - we are so desperate for the kids NOT to be busts that we extrapolate things like “skating in the right direction” or “being open, but Panarin didn’t pass to him” into “a couple of nice plays”. Laf hasn’t made a nice play all damn year. He occasionally steps out of his fugue state, 10 steps behind the play, comatose behavior and looks like an average NHL middle six body. We celebrate when it happens like “oh… oh… signs of life! Look at that, Laf read a pass and picked it off… he’s coming along!”

It isn’t that I dislike Laf either. It’s the fact that there are some here who really need to hold on to this notion that it’s only the organization that sucks and the second Laf goes somewhere else he’s going to ram it down our throats and turn into the he next Joe Thornton, and they basically act like Laf can do no wrong, he oozes untapped potential the rest of us fools just can’t see, and it’s all down to the evil NYR anti-development agenda and our inept coaches for using him wrong.

I’d be willing to put a long wager on Laf being an “official” bust 7 years from now. It’s as simple as that. I wanted him to be a star or at least a fixture. I like him - the Off The Boards segments and behind the scenes stuff make him seem like a good kid. I just don’t believe in him anymore. I don’t see any thing in his game that makes me say he’s going to produce, he’s going to be a player, he’s going to figure it out. I just see people telling me how good his EV production is and how that’s significant. I just don’t see it. That’s the problem. I don’t believe he has the tools a small handful claim they still see and no matter how I frame that, I get EV point totals and “well he’s got the same EV points as Trochek so… clearly Laf isn’t the problem and it’s the coach”. I’m tired of clinging to marginal moral victories like “well he was really open but Bread didn’t feed him” or “he has as many EV points as Trochek” as the proof that this kid actually has a single tool in his toolbox that will make him a successful NHL top line forward.

What constitutes an "official bust"? Serious question, what are the likely criteria? I imagine career bottom six, even a very effective one, COULD be considered a huge bust for a 1OA, How about a second line two way 60 point guy? Or a first line player but not elite, or allstar, level? Not being facetious, I've wondered what people will consider a bust in the end, and I'm one of the people who considers you pretty level headed.