Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[will1066]

It feels a little like the Lias Andersson thing where the kid is clearly struggling mentally but the team is out to lunch in terms of trying to course correct any of it.

Yeah, Gallant would have benched him for picking up the instigator. And he already has two strikes on him for the diving call and then that hooking call earlier. His own self-preservation over Lindgren's played out in his mind immediately. Warped.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It feels a little like the Lias Andersson thing where the kid is clearly struggling mentally but the team is out to lunch in terms of trying to course correct any of it.

Yeah, but Andersson sucks. He sucks on ice. He's played 23, 20, and 1 game in each of the last three seasons. He was a bad pick in a draft where the good players were already gone. But it's fine because he was perceived to be a safe pick which allowed them to reach a bit for Chytil. If we flip flop players, people are happy and Andersson is a distant memory. And all this struggling mentally stuff is just opinion with no basis in fact. Andersson was a spoiled brat and no one knows what's going on behind the scenes with Laff.

 

[McRanger92]

Yeah, but Andersson sucks. He sucks on ice. He's played 23, 20, and 1 game in each of the last three seasons. He was a bad pick in a draft where the good players were already gone. But it's fine because he was perceived to be a safe pick which allowed them to reach a bit for Chytil. If we flip flop players, people are happy and Andersson is a distant memory. And all this struggling mentally stuff is just opinion with no basis in fact. Andersson was a spoiled brat and no one knows what's going on behind the scenes with Laff.

"Rangers cant develop forwards" crowd really scraping the bottom of the barrel bringing up Lias Andersson in the year 2023 lol. Even Kravtsov looks like a player so they cant use that one anymore either

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

"Rangers cant develop forwards" crowd really scraping the bottom of the barrel bringing up Lias Andersson in the year 2023 lol. Even Kravtsov looks like a player so they cant use that one anymore either

I used to think that taking Kravtsov over Wahlstrom was a mistake, I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[McRanger92]

I used to think that taking Kravtsov over Wahlstrom was a mistake, I'm not so sure anymore.

Islander fans I know think Wahlstrom would look great playing in "the Rangers system" like there is one. The grass aint always greener

 

[bbny]

I don't get the argument that trading him now would be selling low, some are saying it would be selling low because they're holding on to some glimmer of hope due to his draft pedigree. Some GM's would take the risk with that same glimmer of hope. The longer we go without him showing anything, the more that luster of his draft pedigree will wear off. It might be selling high to trade him at this point instead of waiting to be proven right about him being a bust. He's still going to bring back a meaningful return right now, the same can't be said if he continues on his current projection.

I'm not sure why this concept floats over so many people's heads. I think it's really close to the point where the Rangers have more to lose by waiting to see on Lafreniere (diminishing value as you've mentioned, lesser Cup chances during prime of current core), versus trading Lafreniere and seeing him blow up (which again I don't know what blow up means anymore for him...annual 60 point winger?).

 

[bhamill]

I don't get the argument that trading him now would be selling low, some are saying it would be selling low because they're holding on to some glimmer of hope due to his draft pedigree. Some GM's would take the risk with that same glimmer of hope. The longer we go without him showing anything, the more that luster of his draft pedigree will wear off. It might be selling high to trade him at this point instead of waiting to be proven right about him being a bust. He's still going to bring back a meaningful return right now, the same can't be said if he continues on his current projection.

I get your take, but he IS literally at the low of his very short career. He's been way better than this at times (see last years playoffs)... so yeah even if you don't think he's going to be a top six player you are selling low right now.

 

[Bob Richards]

Islander fans I know think Wahlstrom would look great playing in "the Rangers system" like there is one. The grass aint always greener

The draft is a crapshoot. It’s improved tremendously over the decades but in the end, there is still a lot of finger crossing.

When we won the lottery the overwhelming majority of this board wanted Lafreniere but there was a non-zero percent of fans who entertained positional need over BPA and wanted Byfield.

Well he sucks too lol.

 

[McRanger92]

I get your take, but he IS literally at the low of his very short career. He's been way better than this at times (see last years playoffs)... so yeah even if you don't think he's going to be a top six player you are selling low right now.

*whispers* Chytil was carrying the Kid Line last year in the playoffs and neither Kakko or Lafreniere were overly effective

 

[bbny]

I get your take, but he IS literally at the low of his very short career. He's been way better than this at times (see last years playoffs)... so yeah even if you don't think he's going to be a top six player you are selling low right now.

It can get lower. That's the point.

 

[bhamill]

Where is the kid who fought Steven Stamkos after a playoff game last year? Or fought Pageau in similar instance last year. Lindgren got boarded last night and Lafreniere was right there with his head in the clouds. That to me is more concerning than the lack of production. Compete level is non-existent

Didnt he also go after Subban?
I was watching this and Laf looked for a second like he might go at (was it Olivier?) the player, and then reconsidered looking at the officials. I think he was afraid of blowing the powerplay. Again.
But yeah, I agree the compete and grit needs to come up. It might all be part of the "confidence/overthinking problem." It looked like his first instinct was to get involved and then he stopped. I was NOT happy about it. IMO that is the time to possibly even it up.

 

[LokiDog]

I'm not sure why this concept floats over so many people's heads. I think it's really close to the point where the Rangers have more to lose by waiting to see on Lafreniere (diminishing value as you've mentioned, lesser Cup chances during prime of current core), versus trading Lafreniere and seeing him blow up (which again I don't know what blow up means anymore for him...annual 60 point winger?).

My other consideration on this - and I mean this as a genuine consideration, not an argument for/against trading him - is that even if he “blows up” into a 90 point winger (odds feel very low, but hey, who knows) would you rather not compete during the prime window of all the guys we have locked up right now, including 24 year old Fox and 26 year old Shesty (along with 12M Bread, 31 year old Kreider, etc) and then have the cool satisfaction of having a 90 point homegrown offensive star for once, with nothing surrounding him besides washed up, high priced vets 3 years from now? Or, if the return made sense could you stomach watching Laf eventually blossom elsewhere if it lead to 2-3 SCF appearances and maybe even a win in the next few years? Obviously it’s impossible to predict the impact of a trade, just as it’s impossible to predict what Laf looks like in 3 years. But if you found a trade that made sense for the window of this team, that made us better right now, even at the expense of future potential… I guess my question is, are we going for it with this core? Or are we just always falling in love with the next generation and the next generation, building for a future that never comes?

 

[bhamill]

It can get lower. That's the point.

Okay, but since everyone feels he's already very shitty, is there more room for sliding or for rising?
Bottom line is they wont trade him for anything that will put egg on their faces if he breaks out. That would be worse for them than him fading out of the NHL in three years.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I get your take, but he IS literally at the low of his very short career. He's been way better than this at times (see last years playoffs)... so yeah even if you don't think he's going to be a top six player you are selling low right now.

 

[Raspewtin]

When you watch Kakko and Chytil, you see shades of Zibanejad. When you watch Kravtsov, you see shades of Buchnevich. But when you watch Lafreniere, you see shades of . . . Callahan? Dom Moore? The ceiling is low right now. He needs to take a major step forward in the offseason, beginning with his skating.

I don't because Callahan and D. Moore could skate and actually gave a f***

 

[bhamill]

Hahaha. But there is a lot more room to get better than to get worse, no?

 

[McRanger92]

My other consideration on this - and I mean this as a genuine consideration, not an argument for/against trading him - is that even if he “blows up” into a 90 point winger (odds feel very low, but hey, who knows) would you rather not compete during the prime window of all the guys we have locked up right now, including 24 year old Fox and 26 year old Shesty (along with 12M Bread, 31 year old Kreider, etc) and then have the cool satisfaction of having a 90 point homegrown offensive star for once, with nothing surrounding him besides washed up, high priced vets 3 years from now? Or, if the return made sense could you stomach watching Laf eventually blossom elsewhere if it lead to 2-3 SCF appearances and maybe even a win in the next few years? Obviously it’s impossible to predict the impact of a trade, just as it’s impossible to predict what Laf looks like in 3 years. But if you found a trade that made sense for the window of this team, that made us better right now, even at the expense of future potential… I guess my question is, are we going for it with this core? Or are we just always falling in love with the next generation and the next generation, building for a future that never comes?

Are the Rangers in a position to be patient with Laf or are they better off dealing him for immediate help (NOT A RENTAL), especially when he has been passed by Kakko & Chytil, showed less than Kravtsov and has another 1st round winger ready to come in and take his ice time next season? We are not currently in a "rest on your laurels" era of Ranger hockey.

 

[mas0764]

Yeah, but Andersson sucks. He sucks on ice. He's played 23, 20, and 1 game in each of the last three seasons. He was a bad pick in a draft where the good players were already gone. But it's fine because he was perceived to be a safe pick which allowed them to reach a bit for Chytil. If we flip flop players, people are happy and Andersson is a distant memory. And all this struggling mentally stuff is just opinion with no basis in fact. Andersson was a spoiled brat and no one knows what's going on behind the scenes with Laff.

Sure, I'm not saying the situations are identical.

It's just that most people can see he looks a little lost there and there isn't much reason for him to look this lost. He's better than this.

I'd like to know how the Rangers are working with him both on and off the ice at this point because I bet there is something wrong. It's not just "he sucks, he's a bust, he has no skills." The dude wasn't that high end of a prospect because he had no translatable skills.

Are the Rangers in a position to be patient with Laf or are they better off dealing him for immediate help (NOT A RENTAL), especially when he has been passed by Kakko & Chytil, showed less than Kravtsov and has another 1st round winger ready to come in and take his ice time next season? We are not currently in a "rest on your laurels" era of Ranger hockey.

They can't pawn him off for less than a young star player. Obviously that's never going to be a MacKinnon level player but I'm not even sure I'd deal him straight up for Meier.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Hahaha. But there is a lot more room to get better than to get worse, no?

Just because he's likely to improve doesn't mean his value will improve. If he were some random player he would be a regular scratch at this point, his value is that he was a 1st overall pick, the further we get from that draft without him exploding offensively the more his value plummets. Do you think he's likely to ever live up to his pre-draft hype? If our front office doesn't think so, they need to take advantage of whatever front office believes he will. Right now his stats are worse than Yakupov & Daigle through their first 179 games.

 

[bhamill]

Are the Rangers in a position to be patient with Laf or are they better off dealing him for immediate help (NOT A RENTAL), especially when he has been passed by Kakko & Chytil, showed less than Kravtsov and has another 1st round winger ready to come in and take his ice time next season? We are not currently in a "rest on your laurels" era of Ranger hockey.

I'm not sure that 19 goals at even strength last year is showing less than Kravtsov and Othmann will be far better served with some time in the AHL... but I take your point. As in ALL trades it depends on the return. And shopping now will just signal "desperation" and drive the price even lower.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Sure, I'm not saying the situations are identical.

It's just that most people can see he looks a little lost there and there isn't much reason for him to look this lost. He's better than this.

I'd like to know how the Rangers are working with him both on and off the ice at this point because I bet there is something wrong. It's not just "he sucks, he's a bust, he has no skills." The dude wasn't that high end of a prospect because he had no translatable skills.



They can't pawn him off for less than a young star player. Obviously that's never going to be a MacKinnon level player but I'm not even sure I'd deal him straight up for Meier.

Speaking of MacKinnon it's ridiculous when people try comparing Laf to him as someone who was a "bust" and then lived up to the hype later on. MacKinnon had nearly as many points in his rookie season that Laf has in 179 games.

It's almost as if most Ranger fans don't realize that Laf's production so far is worse than Yakupov & Daigle. He is literally well on his way to being the biggest bust in NHL history.

 

[mas0764]

Speaking of MacKinnon it's ridiculous when people try comparing Laf to him as someone who was a "bust" and then lived up to the hype later on. MacKinnon had nearly as many points in his rookie season that Laf has in 179 games.

It's almost as if most Ranger fans don't realize that Laf's production so far is worse than Yakupov & Daigle. He is literally well on his way to being the biggest bust in NHL history.

I think everyone has concern while also realizing that there are some reasons behind the lack of production as well.

Two things can be true at the same time.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Sure, I'm not saying the situations are identical.

It's just that most people can see he looks a little lost there and there isn't much reason for him to look this lost. He's better than this.

I'd like to know how the Rangers are working with him both on and off the ice at this point because I bet there is something wrong. It's not just "he sucks, he's a bust, he has no skills." The dude wasn't that high end of a prospect because he had no translatable skills.



They can't pawn him off for less than a young star player. Obviously that's never going to be a MacKinnon level player but I'm not even sure I'd deal him straight up for Meier.

I'm no expert but I have two theories:

1) His body can't do what his brain wants to do because his skating isn't quite where it needs to be.

2) He was physically more mature than other players at the Jr. level and now everyone's caught up to him, making him seem less special.

I don't think either is a fatal flaw but they both require the kind of offseason work he's yet to commit to. Unless he's part of a package that yields a superstar, I don't trade him. But I make sure he has a plan for this summer.

 

[bhamill]

Just because he's likely to improve doesn't mean his value will improve. If he were some random player he would be a regular scratch at this point, his value is that he was a 1st overall pick, the further we get from that draft without him exploding offensively the more his value plummets. Do you think he's likely to ever live up to his pre-draft hype? If our front office doesn't think so, they need to take advantage of whatever front office believes he will. Right now his stats are worse than Yakupov & Daigle through their first 179 games.

Subjective take, as all valuations are. It all depends on the return, always does, but there's no way they trade him if they feel there's even a slight chance he breaks out unless it's a massive return. It's a bigger risk trading him than not right now, as far as management is concerned.

 

[mas0764]

I'm no expert but I have two theories:

1) His body can't do what his brain wants to do because his skating isn't quite where it needs to be.

2) He was physically more mature than other players at the Jr. level and now everyone's caught up to him, making him seem less special.

I don't think either is a fatal flaw but they both require the kind of offseason work he's yet to commit to. Unless he's part of a package that yields a superstar, I don't trade him. But I make sure he has a plan for this summer.

But my point is, even if he's "less special," he shouldn't be this useless.