Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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The problem is that, in order to do this, you need to deprioritize your established, high paid, all star caliber players. Mika was a top draft pick himself. What kind of message does it send if you give a kid his ice time/role?

It sends the message that we know we aren't good enough and that we're trying to win Cups, not wildcard rounds?

And for what, a 10% chance that the kid in question becomes as good as Mika is now? That’s not how sports work.

I dunno, you keep picking in the top 5 enough times and you'll get enough talents that equal or surpass Mika. The Crosbys and McDavids are the ones that you really shouldn't count on. Mika is hardly irreplaceable. Just because he's the only ppg center we've had come through here in forever doesn't mean ppg centers are hard to find. It's just hard for us because our organization doesn't prioritize offensive skill and never develops forwards.

Just about every playoff team has a Mika Zibanejad, or two, though. The real contenders have better than Mika and sometimes a couple of them.

Mika is a very good player, and if he were 4-5 years younger he'd be perfect for our window.
The lottery distorted everything. Most (all?) teams that draft a Lafreniere don’t have a Panarin (let alone a Kreider) on the roster already. The lottery wins, in addition to the positions played by the consensus top picks, created an untenable roster situation that was never going to create the optimized machine that we all hoped it would.

In retrospect, winning those lotteries, along with signing Panarin, were not good for us. It created the sense that we were done rebuilding because Gorton and co figured we had two instant top six 50 point players who would soon be 80 point players.

It probably triggered us on decisions to retain Kreider when trading would have been better value and probably instigated the decision to trade Buch for current-roster grit rather than much more valuable futures.

Instead we tried to win for a current core which wasn't anywhere close to good enough absent Laf and Kakko becoming dominant, MacKinnon-level forwards, and neither are anywhere close.

I don’t know what the path out is. You can’t trade these kids for pennies on the dollar to bolster the roster to win now. You can’t NOT play superstar players that have earned it in the hopes that these underperforming kids somehow become BETTER players than the all stars that are blocking them.

I know what the path out is.

This core can't win without Kakko and Laf becoming stars, and the org has failed to properly develop them into such stars. The GM should stop deluding himself and the fans.

Acquire and develop young talent that is capable of turning into stars. Build a winner. This isn't one.

It has pieces to be one (Fox, Miller, Shesterkin form a capable back end). But it has just as many long term things it lacks. It 2 more years Panarin and Kreider will be near worthless to a winning team at their salaries.
 
You tell me. League leading Boston with Quaider? Stanley Cup championship defending Colorado with Willsie and Reinprecht? Can I interest you in one of the female perspectives working for teams at the top of the standings?

Yes I'm comfortable putting Othmann and Sykora into this organization, lol. But I definitely have a different rubric for assessing hockey players than the points schmoints crowd.

I consider Tampa as a leader in player development and the fact that this team, with it's seemingly endless supply of resources can't seem to develop our young forwards its embarrassing. Glass basically stepped out of his skates and into the role. There wasn't anyone else available that's done this successfully with a track record???? He was a Sather hire, this is a Sather problem.
Our most recent forward fails
Lafreniere
Kakko
Chytil
Andersson
Kravtsov
All first round picks, none at this point you could build a team around. You shouldn't be settling for mediocrity, this team has the resourses, they need to correct this or we're just gonna be the same team we were before the letter.
 
at this point he's a place holder piece until the team acquires reinforcements before the TDL. the bar is so low now that all i ask is that he be a decent puck manager and not a turnover machine. like a nhl version of trent dilfer. if he somehow provides any point/tangible productivity then cool.

the team will more than definitely sign him again. question: for how long?
 
Technically I asked for playerS, because one could easily be an outlier, but I do appreciate the effort. These are this years stats, did they also get the same usage while developing during the last two years? Because Laf’s usage has increased. If Mercer has been getting more time all along that’s a benefit to him. But I’ll look that up on my own, just out of curiosity, it’s not your responsibility to do ALL the work for me. Haha. And you may be right, Mercer may end up having a better career, or he may not, May end up even being the best player from the draft, or might not, but that doesn’t make Laf a bust unless he stays below Mercer and Mercer has a meh career. Any way you slice it I think it’s crazy to give up on Laf at 3 months past his 21st birthday, with a whole 178 regular season games under his belt, with the usage he’s gotten. Most of the top picks we fawn over were developed under far different, more beneficial to the player, circumstances. We’ll know soon enough…
Again though, thanks for the effort and for being reasonable even though we don’t see eye to eye.
Edit: Mercer stayed in junior his D+1, last year he actually got more TOI than this year, by about a min. Only about 2 mins more than Laf, ~16 to 14, I don’t think that’s the issue here. I think you are correct, Mercer has just developed better under similar circumstances.
He's made numerous posts with more than one example, you just have to read them.
 
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Well off the top of my head he undressed Suter a few games ago, and Suter took a penalty punching him in the face to stop him. Hahaha. My take is not that top line time or PP time is a missing ingredient to him suddenly breaking out, but to his development. I havent been trying to convince anyone he’s been playing well or DESERVING of these things, I’m saying we are dragging out his development by not giving him these things.
But yeah its subjective, you see what you see.
Also, I don’t think he’s a bust or has not shot at living up to his draft pedigree. And to be fair he does a lot of subtle, little things the really good players do. I think what he needs more than PP time is to put in the hard work in the off-season. He should spend the summer working out with Kreider and improving his skating. It worked for Kakko, it can work for him too.
 
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It sends the message that we know we aren't good enough and that we're trying to win Cups, not wildcard rounds?



I dunno, you keep picking in the top 5 enough times and you'll get enough talents that equal or surpass Mika. The Crosbys and McDavids are the ones that you really shouldn't count on. Mika is hardly irreplaceable. Just because he's the only ppg center we've had come through here in forever doesn't mean ppg centers are hard to find. It's just hard for us because our organization doesn't prioritize offensive skill and never develops forwards.

Just about every playoff team has a Mika Zibanejad, or two, though. The real contenders have better than Mika and sometimes a couple of them.

Mika is a very good player, and if he were 4-5 years younger he'd be perfect for our window.


In retrospect, winning those lotteries, along with signing Panarin, were not good for us. It created the sense that we were done rebuilding because Gorton and co figured we had two instant top six 50 point players who would soon be 80 point players.

It probably triggered us on decisions to retain Kreider when trading would have been better value and probably instigated the decision to trade Buch for current-roster grit rather than much more valuable futures.

Instead we tried to win for a current core which wasn't anywhere close to good enough absent Laf and Kakko becoming dominant, MacKinnon-level forwards, and neither are anywhere close.



I know what the path out is.

This core can't win without Kakko and Laf becoming stars, and the org has failed to properly develop them into such stars. The GM should stop deluding himself and the fans.

Acquire and develop young talent that is capable of turning into stars. Build a winner. This isn't one.

It has pieces to be one (Fox, Miller, Shesterkin form a capable back end). But it has just as many long term things it lacks. It 2 more years Panarin and Kreider will be near worthless to a winning team at their salaries.
It’s absurd how much you diminish the play of guys like Mika and Kreider.
 
I consider Tampa as a leader in player development and the fact that this team, with it's seemingly endless supply of resources can't seem to develop our young forwards its embarrassing. Glass basically stepped out of his skates and into the role. There wasn't anyone else available that's done this successfully with a track record???? He was a Sather hire, this is a Sather problem.
Our most recent forward fails
Lafreniere
Kakko
Chytil
Andersson
Kravtsov
All first round picks, none at this point you could build a team around. You shouldn't be settling for mediocrity, this team has the resourses, they need to correct this or we're just gonna be the same team we were before the letter.
Glass was a JD hire.

Tampa’s guy is JP Cote. Not exactly Scott Niedermayer.
 
It sends the message that we know we aren't good enough and that we're trying to win Cups, not wildcard rounds?



I dunno, you keep picking in the top 5 enough times and you'll get enough talents that equal or surpass Mika. The Crosbys and McDavids are the ones that you really shouldn't count on. Mika is hardly irreplaceable. Just because he's the only ppg center we've had come through here in forever doesn't mean ppg centers are hard to find. It's just hard for us because our organization doesn't prioritize offensive skill and never develops forwards.

Just about every playoff team has a Mika Zibanejad, or two, though. The real contenders have better than Mika and sometimes a couple of them.

Mika is a very good player, and if he were 4-5 years younger he'd be perfect for our window.


In retrospect, winning those lotteries, along with signing Panarin, were not good for us. It created the sense that we were done rebuilding because Gorton and co figured we had two instant top six 50 point players who would soon be 80 point players.

It probably triggered us on decisions to retain Kreider when trading would have been better value and probably instigated the decision to trade Buch for current-roster grit rather than much more valuable futures.

Instead we tried to win for a current core which wasn't anywhere close to good enough absent Laf and Kakko becoming dominant, MacKinnon-level forwards, and neither are anywhere close.



I know what the path out is.

This core can't win without Kakko and Laf becoming stars, and the org has failed to properly develop them into such stars. The GM should stop deluding himself and the fans.

Acquire and develop young talent that is capable of turning into stars. Build a winner. This isn't one.

It has pieces to be one (Fox, Miller, Shesterkin form a capable back end). But it has just as many long term things it lacks. It 2 more years Panarin and Kreider will be near worthless to a winning team at their salaries.
I don’t have too much heartburn with anything that you are saying, but I think our main area of disagreement is the evaluation of Zibanejad. I think he is an elite player in the game, just a notch below the generational types of which there are only like 3-5 in the league.
 
Cute.

Kovalev was creative, a wizard with the puck. He oozed skill. I was a kid, but I remember the car trips to Binghamton.

13 possesses nothing of the sort. Keep clutching onto that 1 ov tag. He’s Michael Bennett.
AK27 showed elite talent, always. I was a huge huge fan of his. But he never showed much interest in playing a complete game. And went invisible for long stretches. With his skillset he should have been a hall of famer and a franchise altering player or even just a Panarin. But he was never anything but a secondary threat on any team he played on. I will grant you, its an interesting comp, Kovy's skills and talent were always obviously elite in every way. And in that sense, we aren't really seeing that level of elite talent from Laffy. But Kovy was a super flashy player. You always noticed him when he was engaged in the game. In part because he would just go anywhere and do anything if it meant he could play with the puck on his stick.

Laffy has been a different player and on a diff development path. He's tried very hard to adapt his game to be responsible. To be a board player, to block a shooting lane, to make a hit, to stay on the right side of the puck. I see a guy who is constantly thinking too much out there. I see a kid who does a finesse play when he should make a strong play. I see a kid who slows down with the puck too much instead of attacking. I see a kid who hesitates on the forecheck. A kid who can find himself on the wrong side of the opposition in board battles.

To me, it's a process of trying to round out his whole game but trying to do so in the NHL. Vally or maybe Chris Peters said it best recently when they said, Laffy was a guy who was used to having the other guys on his line win the board battles, they'd get him the puck and he'd do the rest. Now, he's having to do all that little stuff and he's really focused on it. And it's very uneven process. And he's succeeding half the time and failing the other half. And he's really almost surprised when he suddenly finds himself in open space with the puck. Like you can feel it watching the game. He's almost too excited. I think we can all see him processing the moment -- like, oh my god, this is what I love. Yay. Then he overthinks it because he's not in any kind of rhythm.

That's killing his game and his confidence. It's a hard place for a young kid to find himself in. It's why a conditioning stint or something where he could just go and have fun and go back to his instincts would help. I think if he were traded to a team like the Blackhawks, you would see his game take off after like 40 games. And he'd never look back and we'd look like idiots for moving him. But the predicament we're in with him is he needed more non-NHL time to round out his game and it just was never possible for him. He's trying to develop at the NHL level and as a result, it's going to be very messy, and very uneven and very frustrating for him, for the team, for the fans. It sucks.

But -- Laffy does have great hands, he does have great vision. He has very good offensive instincts when he allows himself to use them. If the coaches would be okay with him just cheating a bunch just to get into an offensive rhythm it might help him right now. As terrible as that is for the team. And team chemistry. (it is!)

That said, Kovy cheated A LOT. He was an untamable wild stallion. And the game back then just naturally had more cheating and less structure. So, it's hard to compare these guys just based on that alone. I mean, Darren Turcotte looked like a perennial all star when he came up and then became very pedestrian. Countless Rangers rookies had this path (York, Turcotte, Hlavac, Prucha, Sundstrom).

But that was a different era (at least for the Rangers). Every single one of our forwards is being asked to play a far more responsible game. Kakko, Kravy, Laffy -- their numbers are lower in part because they don't really cheat. I would say the biggest cheater amongst our young forwards is Chytil. And I think it shows. I think he's very very inconsistent in his own zone. And a lot of it is because he can't wait to take off and go on the offense. But you see the benefit of that. He's def the most effective in getting the puck up the ice. But still our young forwards aren't ready to be 200 ft players that show up consistently on the scoresheet. That's just the reality of it. And it's the reality of almost every player under 24 in the entire league.

It's a choice though. In the name of winning now, we've decided to ask them all to pay attention to the first 180ft. We rarely give them PP time. And a result, their numbers are only ok at best. And because they're all still very young and being relied upon to score, its kind of an issue. As not only are they not consistently capable of what they're being asked to do (because they're still learning and physically maturing) but they're feeling a ton of pressure to prove their draft stock.

But I watch Jack Hughes out there and the guy is practically allergic to his own zone and putting up incredible points. Will Hughes ever round out his game? We'll see. I bet, one day he will.

Back to Laffy, I just think he's hit a particular rough patch in his development. He's really going through it and hasn't made a single excuse or blamed anyone. WIth the pressure he's feeling right now, I give him a ton of credit for it. It comes off like he's unaware, but I think he's very very aware.

Beyond that, we just don't know what Laffy will be in the long run. But I am more than fine with erring on the side of patience. The thing with Laffy is, he has a lot of offense in his hands and vision. He actually shows a decent hockey IQ away from the puck. He shows you things that actual 1st round busts like Puljijarvi or Daigle never came close to showing. What Laffy needs most right now is confidence and opportunity, then strength and power in his stride. The rest will come. Will he turn into a 100 point player? I don't know. Will he turn into a 65-75 point player and someone who comes up big in the playoffs one day. I believe he will. But I could be waaaaay off. But my instincts say there's a player here. And he's going through a really low point in his very young career. If we trade him in the next year or two, I think it would be one of those mistakes this board will talk about for decades.
 
AK27 showed elite talent, always. I was a huge huge fan of his. But he never showed much interest in playing a complete game. And went invisible for long stretches. With his skillset he should have been a hall of famer and a franchise altering player or even just a Panarin. But he was never anything but a secondary threat on any team he played on. I will grant you, its an interesting comp, Kovy's skills and talent were always obviously elite in every way. And in that sense, we aren't really seeing that level of elite talent from Laffy. But Kovy was a super flashy player. You always noticed him when he was engaged in the game. In part because he would just go anywhere and do anything if it meant he could play with the puck on his stick.

Laffy has been a different player and on a diff development path. He's tried very hard to adapt his game to be responsible. To be a board player, to block a shooting lane, to make a hit, to stay on the right side of the puck. I see a guy who is constantly thinking too much out there. I see a kid who does a finesse play when he should make a strong play. I see a kid who slows down with the puck too much instead of attacking. I see a kid who hesitates on the forecheck. A kid who can find himself on the wrong side of the opposition in board battles.

To me, it's a process of trying to round out his whole game but trying to do so in the NHL. Vally or maybe Chris Peters said it best recently when they said, Laffy was a guy who was used to having the other guys on his line win the board battles, they'd get him the puck and he'd do the rest. Now, he's having to do all that little stuff and he's really focused on it. And it's very uneven process. And he's succeeding half the time and failing the other half. And he's really almost surprised when he suddenly finds himself in open space with the puck. Like you can feel it watching the game. He's almost too excited. I think we can all see him processing the moment -- like, oh my god, this is what I love. Yay. Then he overthinks it because he's not in any kind of rhythm.

That's killing his game and his confidence. It's a hard place for a young kid to find himself in. It's why a conditioning stint or something where he could just go and have fun and go back to his instincts would help. I think if he were traded to a team like the Blackhawks, you would see his game take off after like 40 games. And he'd never look back and we'd look like idiots for moving him. But the predicament we're in with him is he needed more non-NHL time to round out his game and it just was never possible for him. He's trying to develop at the NHL level and as a result, it's going to be very messy, and very uneven and very frustrating for him, for the team, for the fans. It sucks.

But -- Laffy does have great hands, he does have great vision. He has very good offensive instincts when he allows himself to use them. If the coaches would be okay with him just cheating a bunch just to get into an offensive rhythm it might help him right now. As terrible as that is for the team. And team chemistry. (it is!)

That said, Kovy cheated A LOT. He was an untamable wild stallion. And the game back then just naturally had more cheating and less structure. So, it's hard to compare these guys just based on that alone. I mean, Darren Turcotte looked like a perennial all star when he came up and then became very pedestrian. Countless Rangers rookies had this path (York, Turcotte, Hlavac, Prucha, Sundstrom).

But that was a different era (at least for the Rangers). Every single one of our forwards is being asked to play a far more responsible game. Kakko, Kravy, Laffy -- their numbers are lower in part because they don't really cheat. I would say the biggest cheater amongst our young forwards is Chytil. And I think it shows. I think he's very very inconsistent in his own zone. And a lot of it is because he can't wait to take off and go on the offense. But you see the benefit of that. He's def the most effective in getting the puck up the ice. But still our young forwards aren't ready to be 200 ft players that show up consistently on the scoresheet. That's just the reality of it. And it's the reality of almost every player under 24 in the entire league.

It's a choice though. In the name of winning now, we've decided to ask them all to pay attention to the first 180ft. We rarely give them PP time. And a result, their numbers are only ok at best. And because they're all still very young and being relied upon to score, its kind of an issue. As not only are they not consistently capable of what they're being asked to do (because they're still learning and physically maturing) but they're feeling a ton of pressure to prove their draft stock.

But I watch Jack Hughes out there and the guy is practically allergic to his own zone and putting up incredible points. Will Hughes ever round out his game? We'll see. I bet, one day he will.

Back to Laffy, I just think he's hit a particular rough patch in his development. He's really going through it and hasn't made a single excuse or blamed anyone. WIth the pressure he's feeling right now, I give him a ton of credit for it. It comes off like he's unaware, but I think he's very very aware.

Beyond that, we just don't know what Laffy will be in the long run. But I am more than fine with erring on the side of patience. The thing with Laffy is, he has a lot of offense in his hands and vision. He actually shows a decent hockey IQ away from the puck. He shows you things that actual 1st round busts like Puljijarvi or Daigle never came close to showing. What Laffy needs most right now is confidence and opportunity, then strength and power in his stride. The rest will come. Will he turn into a 100 point player? I don't know. Will he turn into a 65-75 point player and someone who comes up big in the playoffs one day. I believe he will. But I could be waaaaay off. But my instincts say there's a player here. And he's going through a really low point in his very young career. If we trade him in the next year or two, I think it would be one of those mistakes this board will talk about for decades.

Fantastic Post dude. POTY so far.
 
Glass was a JD hire.

Tampa’s guy is JP Cote. Not exactly Scott Niedermayer.
Sather runs this show period
How many years experience do Jp Cote and Mike Ellis have in skills development? I don't care what kind of players they were if they are qualified and experienced, Glass is neither, he jumped out of his skates and into a job he wasn't qualified for.
 
Sather runs this show period
How many years experience do Jp Cote and Mike Ellis have in skills development? I don't care what kind of players they were if they are qualified and experienced, Glass is neither.
Sather runs your show. Not mine.
 
has there ever been 1OA-3OA's that have been drafted and sent to the minors to develop for 2 years before being called up and sticking with the big club?

i noticed a lot of players that are considered good at the nhl level first spent a solid 2 years in the minors before a permanent call up. tampa being good when drafting deangelo, lucherov and point afforded them the luxury of patience to enable those players to develop.
 
I think I’ve done this though.

Dawson Mercer plays LESS 5v5 and the same PP time as Laf. He edges him slightly on TOI because he PKs. He has better ES production and has done more with his PP time, but getting beyond the statistics… Mercer, with less 5v5 time and identical PP time, even though the bottom line results are close (slightly favor Mercer) LOOKS like 3x the player Laf is. He’s infinitely more noticeable and looks much more promising. If you ask me today who will have the better career, I will comfortably say Mercer likely has the better career.

They’re from the same draft and are less than 20 days apart in age. Like I said, production is similar, so it’s not like he’s blowing Laf away, but he shows speed, tries to carry the puck and make plays, is overall more engaged in reading the puck and being involved in the play whether it’s a cycle, a forecheck, a backcheck, etc. and simply looks more like a legitimate NHL player at 21.

Laf has 18 points, Mercer has 27.
Laf has 17 EV, Mercer has 22 EV (and 1 SH).
Laf has 17 EV points, average 13:48 EV per game.
Mercer has 22 EV points, averaging 13:05 EV per game.
Laf has 1 PP point with 1:17 of PP time per game.
Mercer has 4 PP points with 1:20 per game.
Mercer plays 1:10 per night on the PK and has a SH point; Laf doesn’t touch the PK.
Mercer is 16 days younger.

Which player so far is performing better? The one with 5 more EV points despite 43 seconds less time per game, who kills penalties and passes the eye test at the same time? Or the 1OA? Laf has 70 career points in 178 games. Mercer has 69 in 125 while playing less minutes for all of it.

You asked for an example from the same draft class with the same usage.
I get it.

But I'm 99.999% confident that if Mercer was here and Laffy was there, it'd be drastically reversed.
 
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AK27 showed elite talent, always. I was a huge huge fan of his. But he never showed much interest in playing a complete game. And went invisible for long stretches. With his skillset he should have been a hall of famer and a franchise altering player or even just a Panarin. But he was never anything but a secondary threat on any team he played on. I will grant you, its an interesting comp, Kovy's skills and talent were always obviously elite in every way. And in that sense, we aren't really seeing that level of elite talent from Laffy. But Kovy was a super flashy player. You always noticed him when he was engaged in the game. In part because he would just go anywhere and do anything if it meant he could play with the puck on his stick.

Laffy has been a different player and on a diff development path. He's tried very hard to adapt his game to be responsible. To be a board player, to block a shooting lane, to make a hit, to stay on the right side of the puck. I see a guy who is constantly thinking too much out there. I see a kid who does a finesse play when he should make a strong play. I see a kid who slows down with the puck too much instead of attacking. I see a kid who hesitates on the forecheck. A kid who can find himself on the wrong side of the opposition in board battles.

To me, it's a process of trying to round out his whole game but trying to do so in the NHL. Vally or maybe Chris Peters said it best recently when they said, Laffy was a guy who was used to having the other guys on his line win the board battles, they'd get him the puck and he'd do the rest. Now, he's having to do all that little stuff and he's really focused on it. And it's very uneven process. And he's succeeding half the time and failing the other half. And he's really almost surprised when he suddenly finds himself in open space with the puck. Like you can feel it watching the game. He's almost too excited. I think we can all see him processing the moment -- like, oh my god, this is what I love. Yay. Then he overthinks it because he's not in any kind of rhythm.

That's killing his game and his confidence. It's a hard place for a young kid to find himself in. It's why a conditioning stint or something where he could just go and have fun and go back to his instincts would help. I think if he were traded to a team like the Blackhawks, you would see his game take off after like 40 games. And he'd never look back and we'd look like idiots for moving him. But the predicament we're in with him is he needed more non-NHL time to round out his game and it just was never possible for him. He's trying to develop at the NHL level and as a result, it's going to be very messy, and very uneven and very frustrating for him, for the team, for the fans. It sucks.

But -- Laffy does have great hands, he does have great vision. He has very good offensive instincts when he allows himself to use them. If the coaches would be okay with him just cheating a bunch just to get into an offensive rhythm it might help him right now. As terrible as that is for the team. And team chemistry. (it is!)

That said, Kovy cheated A LOT. He was an untamable wild stallion. And the game back then just naturally had more cheating and less structure. So, it's hard to compare these guys just based on that alone. I mean, Darren Turcotte looked like a perennial all star when he came up and then became very pedestrian. Countless Rangers rookies had this path (York, Turcotte, Hlavac, Prucha, Sundstrom).

But that was a different era (at least for the Rangers). Every single one of our forwards is being asked to play a far more responsible game. Kakko, Kravy, Laffy -- their numbers are lower in part because they don't really cheat. I would say the biggest cheater amongst our young forwards is Chytil. And I think it shows. I think he's very very inconsistent in his own zone. And a lot of it is because he can't wait to take off and go on the offense. But you see the benefit of that. He's def the most effective in getting the puck up the ice. But still our young forwards aren't ready to be 200 ft players that show up consistently on the scoresheet. That's just the reality of it. And it's the reality of almost every player under 24 in the entire league.

It's a choice though. In the name of winning now, we've decided to ask them all to pay attention to the first 180ft. We rarely give them PP time. And a result, their numbers are only ok at best. And because they're all still very young and being relied upon to score, its kind of an issue. As not only are they not consistently capable of what they're being asked to do (because they're still learning and physically maturing) but they're feeling a ton of pressure to prove their draft stock.

But I watch Jack Hughes out there and the guy is practically allergic to his own zone and putting up incredible points. Will Hughes ever round out his game? We'll see. I bet, one day he will.

Back to Laffy, I just think he's hit a particular rough patch in his development. He's really going through it and hasn't made a single excuse or blamed anyone. WIth the pressure he's feeling right now, I give him a ton of credit for it. It comes off like he's unaware, but I think he's very very aware.

Beyond that, we just don't know what Laffy will be in the long run. But I am more than fine with erring on the side of patience. The thing with Laffy is, he has a lot of offense in his hands and vision. He actually shows a decent hockey IQ away from the puck. He shows you things that actual 1st round busts like Puljijarvi or Daigle never came close to showing. What Laffy needs most right now is confidence and opportunity, then strength and power in his stride. The rest will come. Will he turn into a 100 point player? I don't know. Will he turn into a 65-75 point player and someone who comes up big in the playoffs one day. I believe he will. But I could be waaaaay off. But my instincts say there's a player here. And he's going through a really low point in his very young career. If we trade him in the next year or two, I think it would be one of those mistakes this board will talk about for decades.

The only thing on here that i disagree with is that it comes off like he's unaware. To me at least, it comes off like he's very aware, and is trying to put a good face on it and keep pushing forward, but he's struggling to crest that hill
 
I get it.

But I'm 99.999% confident that if Mercer was here and Laffy was there, it'd be drastically reversed.
I want to believe that but I’m not sure. Skating is the big difference. And the fact that Mercer, by virtue of being a mid round pick, has far lower expectations put on him. If he continues to comfortably slot into their middle six he’s fine and everyone is happy. That’d be true here as well.

We drafted what we’re supposed to be superstars and buried them behind established superstars. We’ve asked to to do things that they aren’t good at, and their lack of speed is hindering their ability to do so.
 
has there ever been 1OA-3OA's that have been drafted and sent to the minors to develop for 2 years before being called up and sticking with the big club?

i noticed a lot of players that are considered good at the nhl level first spent a solid 2 years in the minors before a permanent call up. tampa being good when drafting deangelo, lucherov and point afforded them the luxury of patience to enable those players to develop.
Not for 2 years, because I think the general consensus is that within that time they should start adjusting to NHL pace rather than beating up lesser competition.
- Byfield (#2 behind Laf) has spent as much time in the AHL as he has in the NHL, although injuries played a factor
- Powers, Beniers and McTavish (1,2 and 3 in 21) all went back to CHL, College hockey in their D+1
- Hiskenen played his D+1 overseas (although he is Finnish and a D-man)
- PLD went back to the Q for his D+1
- Dylan Strome went back to Juniors and played half a season in the AHL
- Huberdeau went back to minors for his D+1 and then get more time there due to the lockout in D+2
- RNH had a cup of coffee in the AHL

So Powers and Huberdeau would be the only recent #1s who weren't in the NHL full time, but there have been others with time at lowers levels, especially by the time you get to the #3 pick
 
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