Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bbny]

I don't see anything that Lafreniere is above average at right now. Big ball of meh.

 

[Shadowtron]

This franchise is cursed.

When it comes to forwards? 100%. In 2003 the Rangers managed to select like one of the only players in the first round to not play in the NHL lol! This franchise tries really hard to not succeed lol.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Finally for the night, I just want to say that if you're not remotely or slightly concerned about Laf's progress, you're delusional. If there was a team where the kid could break out and make something of it, a game at home against the Habs would be it. You're getting exactly what you asked for, Laf Stans. Top line, top line minutes, PP1 minutes, and still the same exact Laf before he was picking up 18-21 minutes a night.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well there's a stomach bug going through the whole team, not sure if you noticed but outside of Shesterkin everyone looked like ass, so to pick one guy out of that is ridiculous.

 

[xsniper11x]

Truthfully? They don’t really. Chytil a bit, but he’s on pace for 48 points in D+6. Whoopie. We’re just THIS starved for ANYTHING from our kids that we are convincing ourselves that Kakko is “really proving the doubters wrong” now. Except he isn’t. He looks marginally better than in every other shitty year of his career so far. There are plenty of examples or late 1st/2nd round picks developing into impact players within 3-4 years despite getting even less opportunity than our kids. The fact is, they’re just disappointments.

Yes, they are. At ES, so is Panarin, Trocheck, Zibby and Kreider.

If an entire forward core full of highly paid, well established vets are a huge disappointment at ES, why should we expect a bunch of unestablished 20y olds to even meet expectations, never mind exceed them?

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Finally for the night, I just want to say that if you're not remotely or slightly concerned about Laf's progress, you're delusional. If there was a team where the kid could break out and make something of it, a game at home against the Habs would be it. You're getting exactly what you asked for, Laf Stans. Top line, top line minutes, PP1 minutes, and still the same exact Laf before he was picking up 18-21 minutes a night.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Few points here…

- There absolutely is cause for concern. You’d have to be completely delusional to not be concerned at this point. No argument here

- Not a single person who advocated for him to get more opportunity wanted it just for two games. His issues were never going to be fixed in two games. Hell, even if he scored in both of these games it would have been ridiculous for those folks to have claimed things were fixed. Just like this post is ridiculous. He needs extended time to develop. A whole lot of it.

- The ask was for extended opportunity and to allow him to play through inevitable struggles like other 1st overall picks have gotten. A knee jerk reaction after two games is literally what people were calling ridiculous in the first place. And him struggling - especially immediately - was inevitable. You don’t go from the poor play he’s been showing to a world beater overnight.

So yeah, I still contend the only way we’ll ever see if he can develop into a top line player is with extended opportunity on PP1. That doesn’t change after two games. It won’t change after any old hot streak or cold streak either. It needs to be extended time. I just don’t see this organization having that patience though.

 

[huerter]

No...they hired Tanner Glass, who has limited experience in developing anyone much less himself. The guy was still playing hockey 4 years ago, how much experience could he have....wtf are we hiring him to develop players? They could have hired anyone they wanted.

I beg you donks to research who is filling these roles on the teams you wish we would emulate.

 

[Synergy27]

Few points here…

- There absolutely is cause for concern. You’d have to be completely delusional to not be concerned at this point. No argument here

- Not a single person who advocated for him to get more opportunity wanted it just for two games. His issues were never going to be fixed in two games. Hell, even if he scored in both of these games it would have been ridiculous for those folks to have claimed things were fixed. Just like this post is ridiculous. He needs extended time to develop. A whole lot of it.

- The ask was for extended opportunity and to allow him to play through inevitable struggles like other 1st overall picks have gotten. A knee jerk reaction after two games is literally what people were calling ridiculous in the first place. And him struggling - especially immediately - was inevitable. You don’t go from the poor play he’s been showing to a world beater overnight.

So yeah, I still contend the only way we’ll ever see if he can develop into a top line player is with extended opportunity on PP1. That doesn’t change after two games. It won’t change after any old hot streak or cold streak either. It needs to be extended time. I just don’t see this organization having that patience though.

Since @GENESISPuck94 is too afraid to answer my question, I will ask you. Simple yes or no.

Do you think Laf will develop into a better player than Panarin and/or Zibanejad if he gets an extended look on PP1 and whatever other situational minutes you think he needs.

Yes or no.

 

[B17 Apricots]

This franchise is cursed.

Maybe it's just karma for NYC being a disgusting place, or James Dolan owning the team

 

[bhamill]

I’m laughing my ass off at some of these hot takes.
2 games of getting the sort of usage a 1OA NORMALLY gets and theres people who expect him to be a better player instantly. Do people really not understand development at all? I mean, obviously not. Hahahaha.
I think I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the whining and doomsday takes for the rest of this season. It would almost be worth him totally busting to watch the hysteria on this board. Almost. This is amazing. Hahahaha. Well done guys!

 

[huerter]

I’m laughing my ass off at some of these hot takes.
2 games of getting the sort of usage a 1OA NORMALLY gets and theres people who expect him to be a better player instantly. Do people really not understand development at all? I mean, obviously not. Hahahaha.
I think I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the whining and doomsday takes for the rest of this season. It would almost be worth him totally busting to watch the hysteria on this board. Almost. This is amazing. Hahahaha. Well done guys!

I've seen plenty a 5* kid be butt unprepared at the next level and a bunch of one high major offer kids fit in seamlessly. People on this board just don't have a good feel for the inner workings of sports.

 

[Rybo]

I’m laughing my ass off at some of these hot takes.
2 games of getting the sort of usage a 1OA NORMALLY gets and theres people who expect him to be a better player instantly. Do people really not understand development at all? I mean, obviously not. Hahahaha.
I think I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the whining and doomsday takes for the rest of this season. It would almost be worth him totally busting to watch the hysteria on this board. Almost. This is amazing. Hahahaha. Well done guys!

Make sure to tuck in Lafreniere's ES points at night while you're gone; oh they also like a bedtime story

And when he turns it around here or elsewhere Im sure youll claim you saw it all along. But I doubt very much youll ever own up to the ridiculous tire-pumping of a mediocre talent at best today when five years from now we have whatever we have.

 

[2014nyr]

he just needs to do what mackinnon did a few years ago and really lean out. could even point to lindgren here. lindgren first showed up as a pretty thick kid who was just an ok skater. then over a summer he really leaned out and his skating took a massive leap. no one's gonna confuse lindgren for makar but he's definitely become an above average skater in speed and using his edges. laf is always gonna be solid, but he still carries too much weight for todays nhl and the game he wants to play. if he dropped 15 or so lb's and really lean out coupled with some serious core work he'd see a massive difference in what he could do on the ice

 

[JHS]

Finally for the night, I just want to say that if you're not remotely or slightly concerned about Laf's progress, you're delusional. If there was a team where the kid could break out and make something of it, a game at home against the Habs would be it. You're getting exactly what you asked for, Laf Stans. Top line, top line minutes, PP1 minutes, and still the same exact Laf before he was picking up 18-21 minutes a night.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I made the same point a few pages ago. It’s not even just how he’s put up no points, it’s not even like his next check will be his first one in games, it’s not even that he’s destroyed the flow of the first unit— it’s more about how he’s looked exactly as ineffective as always with Mica as his center. Laf is not competing right now. He’s playing like the entitled kid he entered the league as and to me- he still has not grown up. He’s running out of time with the fans and the organization will have a real issue here if Laf shows nothing for the rest of the year. I mean he’s seriously looking like a 1 year 1.5 million dollar contract for next season type guy. Maybe he’s cool with that but when does he turn it on??? And the sad reality is- this might be his “turned on!”

He’s closer to being benched again after these two games replacing Kreider than he’s is to breaking out.

 

[Synergy27]

I’m laughing my ass off at some of these hot takes.
2 games of getting the sort of usage a 1OA NORMALLY gets and theres people who expect him to be a better player instantly. Do people really not understand development at all? I mean, obviously not. Hahahaha.
I think I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the whining and doomsday takes for the rest of this season. It would almost be worth him totally busting to watch the hysteria on this board. Almost. This is amazing. Hahahaha. Well done guys!

Maybe you will answer my question since no one else seems to want to. I don’t know, maybe those guys have me on ignore. But:

Do you think Laf will develop into a better player than Panarin and/or Zibanejad if he gets an extended look on PP1 and whatever other situational minutes you think he needs.

Yes or no?

 

[Do you want ants]

Maybe he has the flu, but I’m more alarmed about how few SOGs he’s registered in these 2 games. He’s played essentially 40mins and getting PP1 time and he has 3 SOGs total. 0 last night. If he’s going to do next to nothing with this time, we’d be better off forcing feeding Kakko and Chytil.

 

[mas0764]

It's a breath of fresh air to be reasonable in realizing that, again, that team's standpoint is success over experimentation. We're not in a position to play the kids at the top to death against other teams' top lines that would most certainly crush the shit out of us while we're battling for top spots in the metro. We're trying to win. We're not going to win by moving the kids anywhere they want to be for the sake of their "development".

It’s not reasonable that this team is trying to win without two more star forwards. It doesn’t have enough talent. Kakko and Laf were to be it.

 

[mas0764]

Since you are either unwilling or unable to process nuance, I’ll distill this into a very simple question for you.

Do you think, if given whatever situational ice time you think they need, that Laf and Kakko will develop into better players than Panarin and Zibanejad?

If the answer is no then we just need to tear it down again already. Fox, Miller and Shesterkin are all young enough to come out the other side of an expedited rebuild (actually, the one we should have finished to begin with and never did because we cut it off short).

Team will not win a Cup as currently constructed.

 

[mas0764]

I’m laughing my ass off at some of these hot takes.
2 games of getting the sort of usage a 1OA NORMALLY gets and theres people who expect him to be a better player instantly. Do people really not understand development at all? I mean, obviously not. Hahahaha.
I think I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the whining and doomsday takes for the rest of this season. It would almost be worth him totally busting to watch the hysteria on this board. Almost. This is amazing. Hahahaha. Well done guys!

No, they don’t understand development at all. This is a Rangers board. They expect second round playoff exits every year behind 30+ year olds.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Since @GENESISPuck94 is too afraid to answer my question, I will ask you. Simple yes or no.

Do you think Laf will develop into a better player than Panarin and/or Zibanejad if he gets an extended look on PP1 and whatever other situational minutes you think he needs.

Yes or no.

At this point, the probability is slim IMO.

Thinking about this from a purely math perspective, what % of 1st overall picks have achieved to that level? I imagine it’s not as high as people think. Then when you take into account the start of his career, Lafreniere’s chances probably decrease considerably.

Doesn’t mean the organization shouldn’t at least try to develop him to that level though. And no, basically treating him the same way they treated Chytil is not truly trying.

 

[mas0764]

It’s a misleading question cause the purpose of putting Laf and/or Kakko on PP1 or giving them higher in the lineup minutes isn’t to (a) instantly make them better, (b) win this very year, necessarily, or (c) ever make them better than a player who very recently was one of the very best players in the game in 100+ point pace Artemi Panarin.

The purpose of doing it is because the team isn’t good enough right now nor has it ever been since this rebuild was started. Yet we were promised a decade of being an elite contender via building through the draft, not importing mercenaries which has never worked as the backbone of a Cup winner. The purpose of putting the kids, undeservedly, high in the lineup is to kick start them to whatever they ARE capable of developing into, which we still have remote hope is 80 point caliber players. And if they aren’t capable to find it out ASAP so we can go get young kids who are capable of it.

This season just like last season is irrelevant to me. The team overachieved in getting to the conference finals after facing two backup goalies and going to 7 games each time. It does not have enough talent to win 4 straight series’ against the league’s elite.

So I don’t really care if putting Laf on PP1 will make him better than Panarin or not. We need to turn him into a functional high end player or we’re f***ed. Which we probably are anyway at this point because the team has ruined four top 10 draft picks.

 

[LokiDog]

One of the overlooked bits of Laf’s EV production debate is that while he’s 6th in EV scoring and 5th in EV TOI among forwards, he’s also third in EV goals against among forwards. The only forwards who have been on for more EV goals against are Panarin and Trochek. His on ice EV goal differential is 9th among forwards on the team at +1.

Guys like Trent Frederic, Brandon Tanev, Morgan Geekie, Tomas Tatar, Jake Debrusk, Daniel Sprong are +16 or better 5v5 goal differential. Again, no one is calling for any of these players to be top line players based on these random stats.

Oh, he’s keeping track with Kreider. Let’s examine that a bit closer. Laf’s played 43 games - Kreider 42. Laf plays 13:48 EV, Kreider plays 13:31. Kreider is stapled to Zib and plays against tough matchups and top lines. Laf plays against whatever the opponent randomly throws out against his line. Laf has 17 EV points, Kreider has 18. Laf’s been on the ice for 27 EV goals for, Kreider’s been on for 32. Laf’s been on the ice for 26 EV goals against, Kreider’s been on for 20. Laf’s 5v5 goal diff is +1, Kreider’s is +12. Against way better competition.

Laf’s 5v5 production while getting plenty of time (5th most) is 5 goals, 5 primary assists, 7 secondary assists (and 1 PP secondary assist). You know how many Rangers forwards have more secondary assists? One guy, named Panarin.

Laf just is extraordinarily unremarkable.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

One of the overlooked bits of Laf’s EV production debate is that while he’s 6th in EV scoring and 5th in EV TOI among forwards, he’s also third in EV goals against among forwards. The only forwards who have been on for more EV goals against are Panarin and Trochek. His on ice EV goal differential is 9th among forwards on the team at +1.

Guys like Trent Frederic, Brandon Tanev, Morgan Geekie, Tomas Tatar, Jake Debrusk, Daniel Sprong are +16 or better 5v5 goal differential. Again, no one is calling for any of these players to be top line players based on these random stats.

Oh, he’s keeping track with Kreider. Let’s examine that a bit closer. Laf’s played 43 games - Kreider 42. Laf plays 13:48 EV, Kreider plays 13:31. Kreider is stapled to Zib and plays against tough matchups and top lines. Laf plays against whatever the opponent randomly throws out against his line. Laf has 17 EV points, Kreider has 18. Laf’s been on the ice for 27 EV goals for, Kreider’s been on for 32. Laf’s been on the ice for 26 EV goals against, Kreider’s been on for 20. Laf’s 5v5 goal diff is +1, Kreider’s is +12. Against way better competition.

Laf’s 5v5 production while getting plenty of time (5th most) is 5 goals, 5 primary assists, 7 secondary assists (and 1 PP secondary assist). You know how many Rangers forwards have more secondary assists? One guy, named Panarin.

Laf just is extraordinarily unremarkable.

We know, you don't like him.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

One of the overlooked bits of Laf’s EV production debate is that while he’s 6th in EV scoring and 5th in EV TOI among forwards, he’s also third in EV goals against among forwards. The only forwards who have been on for more EV goals against are Panarin and Trochek. His on ice EV goal differential is 9th among forwards on the team at +1.

Guys like Trent Frederic, Brandon Tanev, Morgan Geekie, Tomas Tatar, Jake Debrusk, Daniel Sprong are +16 or better 5v5 goal differential. Again, no one is calling for any of these players to be top line players based on these random stats.

Oh, he’s keeping track with Kreider. Let’s examine that a bit closer. Laf’s played 43 games - Kreider 42. Laf plays 13:48 EV, Kreider plays 13:31. Kreider is stapled to Zib and plays against tough matchups and top lines. Laf plays against whatever the opponent randomly throws out against his line. Laf has 17 EV points, Kreider has 18. Laf’s been on the ice for 27 EV goals for, Kreider’s been on for 32. Laf’s been on the ice for 26 EV goals against, Kreider’s been on for 20. Laf’s 5v5 goal diff is +1, Kreider’s is +12. Against way better competition.

Laf’s 5v5 production while getting plenty of time (5th most) is 5 goals, 5 primary assists, 7 secondary assists (and 1 PP secondary assist). You know how many Rangers forwards have more secondary assists? One guy, named Panarin.

Laf just is extraordinarily unremarkable.

How much of Kreider’s 5v5 ice time came alongside our 1C vs Lafreniere’s? You can’t look at the two in a vacuum when one is playing with top line players and the other with 3rd liners.

 

[Good Intentions]

He’s a 21 year old kid who can’t be sent to the minors without waivers. Not ideal, but it is what it is. Giving him more TOI to work through a tough stretch is exactly what any young player needs. And beyond that, it’s in our best interest to get him going. Next two games are decent opportunities for him to find a rhythm and a bit of confidence.

KAndre looked pretty mediocre to start the year. Kakko, Schneider and Chytil have all slumped here and there this year. Patience will pay dividends in this case far more than anything else.


Says the guy with the Kovalev avatar…

Cute.

Kovalev was creative, a wizard with the puck. He oozed skill. I was a kid, but I remember the car trips to Binghamton.

13 possesses nothing of the sort. Keep clutching onto that 1 ov tag. He’s Michael Bennett.

 

[LokiDog]

How much of Kreider’s 5v5 ice time came alongside our 1C vs Lafreniere’s? You can’t look at the two in a vacuum when one is playing with top line players and the other with 3rd liners.

One is playing against top line players as well. And Laf plays with Chytil if he isn’t playing with Zib or Bread. Chytil who everyone is praising as a breakout this year. It can’t really be both. Chytil can’t be a breakout, “wow he’s pacing for 50+ points with no PP time” and simultaneously be “it’s not Laf’s fault he has to play with Chytil”.

The excuse making for the kid is absurd. No one wants him to fail because it’s utterly damaging to the team. It doesn’t change the fact that he blows.