Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[LORDE]

Cool. You gonna leave with him?

This isn't an appropriate post at all

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

If Laff were as good as some of y’all think he is, he should be able to make more of an impact than Jimmy Vesey and Julian f***ing Gauthier, regardless of his line mates or ice time. No amount of PP time is going to fix him right now. But if we’re putting a kid on the PP why not Kakko or Chytil? Or is development just for Laff?

This isn't an appropriate post at all

You’re right. It was dumb. Apologies.

 

[bhamill]

Who is cherry picking? The guy has 5 goals in, what, 42 games? That's reality. That's not cherry picking. He's on pace for 9 goals.

The point about the last month isn't even strength scoring stats, it's about taking a guy who is struggling like that and putting him on the top line to continue struggling makes no sense. And, what are you going to tell your 2OA who busted his ass to get there again? Sorry?

The onus is on Lafreniere to start playing like a 1OA. The training wheels need to come off and he needs to get his head straight.

Taking just a segment of the season to make your point IS cherry picking. On the year his points track. Last year it was “where are the assists?”, this year it’s his goals. Hahaha.
My 2OA I would hope is ready to accept whatever is best for the team and it’s future. Why would I need to tell him anything?
I agree he needs to get his head straight. These things aren’t mutually exclusive, nor is the fact that, NO, IM NOT SATISFIED WITH HIS PERFORMANCE.
The point remains though: why does anyone expect a traditional development arc without him being treated as a 1OA is traditionally treated? I‘m not satisfied but I can see this “cause and effect“ so to speak. Or at least reason to hold off judgement.

 

[bhamill]

Maybe I'm being willfully ignorant but I really struggle to believe that players need to be spoon fed opportunities to develop. If undrafted players can work their way up the ladder into stars, and late first rounders can develop on playoff teams, why can't an ostensibly more talented player do the same?

NEED? Not necessarily. Need in order to develop at the rate we expect of 1OA picks? Different story. Chytil and Kakko were “disappointments” as recently as last season, seem to be developing nicely on this playoff team now though. The spoon feeding accelerates development, doesn’t mean it is NECESSARY to eventual development.

 

[LokiDog]

I don’t want to argue with any fellow fans or forget that we’re all on the same side, so I’ll just post this once and move on:

Lafreniere “keeping pace” in 5v5 production is not, in any way, an indication of greater talent or untapped potential, that he is being misused and deserves more or really any sort of indicator of anything. It’s one metric. Without context (such as the fact that 35% of his 5v5 points are second assists). It’s like cherry picking +/- or some other singular metric that, on its own, tells you nothing. We all watch the games. 90% of us see NOTHING from Laf. And clearly the coaches at the NHL level don’t really either since, despite opportunities on the top line every single season, he has never been able to take an opportunity and run with it.

Like Laf is on pace for 33 EV points. Let’s not act as if guys like Kerfoot, Stephenson, Killorn, Sherangovich, and literally a dozen more non-star players who never will be, don’t put up 40-50 EV points EVERY year. Devils should just put Sherangovich on line 1 and the PP, right? Leafs are idiots for misusing Kerfoot. Obviously. Just put him on a line with Matthews and Nylander and the team will be better. Or not, because despite our scoring some of the top six guys above him while at EV, he simply isn’t as good or better as those guys and doesn’t contribute at that level. Laf’s EV production isn’t some indication that we’re stifling him - it’s his one (and only) moderately redeeming metric.

 

[LokiDog]

NEED? Not necessarily. Need in order to develop at the rate we expect of 1OA picks? Different story. Chytil and Kakko were “disappointments” as recently as last season, seem to be developing nicely on this playoff team now though. The spoon feeding accelerates development, doesn’t mean it is NECESSARY to eventual development.

Truthfully? They don’t really. Chytil a bit, but he’s on pace for 48 points in D+6. Whoopie. We’re just THIS starved for ANYTHING from our kids that we are convincing ourselves that Kakko is “really proving the doubters wrong” now. Except he isn’t. He looks marginally better than in every other shitty year of his career so far. There are plenty of examples or late 1st/2nd round picks developing into impact players within 3-4 years despite getting even less opportunity than our kids. The fact is, they’re just disappointments.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I don’t want to argue with any fellow fans or forget that we’re all on the same side, so I’ll just post this once and move on:

Lafreniere “keeping pace” in 5v5 production is not, in any way, an indication of greater talent or untapped potential, that he is being misused and deserves more or really any sort of indicator of anything. It’s one metric. Without context (such as the fact that 35% of his 5v5 points are second assists). It’s like cherry picking +/- or some other singular metric that, on its own, tells you nothing. We all watch the games. 90% of us see NOTHING from Laf. And clearly the coaches at the NHL level don’t really either since, despite opportunities on the top line every single season, he has never been able to take an opportunity and run with it.

Like Laf is on pace for 33 EV points. Let’s not act as if guys like Kerfoot, Stephenson, Killorn, Sherangovich, and literally a dozen more non-star players who never will be, don’t put up 40-50 EV points EVERY year. Devils should just put Sherangovich on line 1 and the PP, right? Leafs are idiots for misusing Kerfoot. Obviously. Just put him on a line with Matthews and Nylander and the team will be better. Or not, because despite our scoring some of the top six guys above him while at EV, he simply isn’t as good or better as those guys and doesn’t contribute at that level. Laf’s EV production isn’t some indication that we’re stifling him - it’s his one (and only) moderately redeeming metric.

The fact he is "keeping pace" with his 5v5 product, all while like you said, not showing ANYTHING out there is all the more good news to me. Wonder how many points he really scores then when he gets better and even shows anything

 

[ReddestRum]

The fact he is "keeping pace" with his 5v5 product, all while like you said, not showing ANYTHING out there is all the more good news to me. Wonder how many points he really scores then when he gets better and even shows anything

Keeping pace with what? An assist every 3-4 games in which there's an overwhelming chance that he gets to touch the puck on a team that overpasses as a secondary contributor, rather than drive plays even playing against bottom 6, 3rd liners is keeping pace?

Laf is literally the clock that's right two times a day, yet because he's right two times a day, this is the only metric that you guys use to measure his success while literally ignoring every other aspect of his weak game.

 

[Mandar]

It's a breath of fresh air to be ignorant and not understand the importance of a number one overall pick? Srewing up tye careers of #1 and #2 overall picks because "not rebuilding" is how teams don't win Cups.

The facts have been laid out. How many teams in the last 2 to 3 decades have won a Stanley Cup without their top picks leading the way?

Gotcha….so do you think that Laffy should stay on PP1?

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If Laff were as good as some of y’all think he is, he should be able to make more of an impact than Jimmy Vesey and Julian f***ing Gauthier, regardless of his line mates or ice time. No amount of PP time is going to fix him right now. But if we’re putting a kid on the PP why not Kakko or Chytil? Or is development just for Laff?


You’re right. It was dumb. Apologies.

Chytil doesn’t strike me as a good PP guy, and Kakko definitely deserves it over Laf but the coach hates him

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Keeping pace with what? An assist every 3-4 games in which there's an overwhelming chance that he gets to touch the puck on a team that overpasses as a secondary contributor, rather than drive plays even playing against bottom 6, 3rd liners is keeping pace?

Laf is literally the clock that's right two times a day, yet because he's right two times a day, this is the only metric that you guys use to measure his success while literally ignoring every other aspect of his weak game.

Keeping pace with Kreiders and Trochecks ES numbers. Are they 3rd liners?

 

[ReddestRum]

Chytil doesn’t strike me as a good PP guy, and Kakko definitely deserves it over Laf but the coach hates him

Where are you guys getting this shit from? Not only did GG put Laf in CK's spot that he could've put any other deserving player on Line 1 and PP1, but the dude started KK, Laf, AND Schneider in OT even after Laf's last OT gaffe. Hell, even KK was out there in the last minutes as the extra man when KAM tied it up with less than a second. Stop with these shit narratives that GG is a hated coach that hates the kids. He's trying to WIN. That's it.

Keeping pace with Kreiders and Trochecks ES numbers. Are they 3rd liners?

Sorry, but you're not going to bait me into your shit, advanced stats argument while overlooking the skill, accomplishments, and overall play of the guys you laughably try to compare Laf with.

Was it you that tried to compare Laf's EV numbers to McDavid in this thread? Because I think that might have been you.

 

[LORDE]

Keeping pace with what? An assist every 3-4 games in which there's an overwhelming chance that he gets to touch the puck on a team that overpasses as a secondary contributor, rather than drive plays even playing against bottom 6, 3rd liners is keeping pace?

Laf is literally the clock that's right two times a day, yet because he's right two times a day, this is the only metric that you guys use to measure his success while literally ignoring every other aspect of his weak game.

End of thread

Well done sir

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Where are you guys getting this shit from? Not only did GG put Laf in CK's spot that he could've put any other deserving player on Line 1 and PP1, but the dude started KK, Laf, AND Schneider in OT even after Laf's last OT gaffe. Hell, even KK was out there in the last minutes as the extra man when KAM tied it up with less than a second. Stop with these shit narratives that GG is a hated coach that hates the kids. He's trying to WIN. That's it.



Sorry, but you're not going to bait me into your shit, advanced stats argument while overlooking the skill, accomplishments, and overall play of the guys you laughably try to compare Laf with.

Was it you that tried to compare Laf's EV numbers to McDavid in this thread? Because I think that might have been you.

ES numbers aren't advanced stats

And nope, wasn't me. Try harder.

 

[Greg02]

Truthfully? They don’t really. Chytil a bit, but he’s on pace for 48 points in D+6. Whoopie. We’re just THIS starved for ANYTHING from our kids that we are convincing ourselves that Kakko is “really proving the doubters wrong” now. Except he isn’t. He looks marginally better than in every other shitty year of his career so far. There are plenty of examples or late 1st/2nd round picks developing into impact players within 3-4 years despite getting even less opportunity than our kids. The fact is, they’re just disappointments.

I mean it's all context right? 50 point third liner who you can imagine with a little more opportunity would be a 65 point second liner is nice from a late first rounder. That's just not the aspersions we should be casting towards Lafreniere and Kakko.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Chytil doesn’t strike me as a good PP guy, and Kakko definitely deserves it over Laf but the coach hates him

I don’t get these posts.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Keeping pace with Kreiders and Trochecks ES numbers. Are they 3rd liners?

Trocheck is shooting 3.95% at 5v5 and Kreider's Primary Point rate is 1.6/60 while Laf is 1.1. It's just secondary assists which is why they are particularly close. But secondary points are more prone to randomness. In any case no one who's honest would say the Laf is nearly as effective as Kreider is.

 

[LORDE]

Strome-esque missing of the open net

 

[QJL]

If Laff were as good as some of y’all think he is, he should be able to make more of an impact than Jimmy Vesey and Julian f***ing Gauthier, regardless of his line mates or ice time. No amount of PP time is going to fix him right now. But if we’re putting a kid on the PP why not Kakko or Chytil? Or is development just for Laff?


You’re right. It was dumb. Apologies.

Laf is only the guy moving up to PP1 because Kreider is out and he’s the net front guy on PP2.

 

[Mandar]

Laf is only the guy moving up to PP1 because Kreider is out and he’s the net front guy on PP2.

He should be in the bumper spot

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Also, nobody actually compared Laf to McDavid. Just used a McDavid stat to suggest that even the best players in the league have their overall production aided considerably by PP numbers. That is not a player comparison. It’s a narrative on PP1 usage.

 

[Synergy27]

It's a breath of fresh air to be ignorant and not understand the importance of a number one overall pick? Srewing up tye careers of #1 and #2 overall picks because "not rebuilding" is how teams don't win Cups.

The facts have been laid out. How many teams in the last 2 to 3 decades have won a Stanley Cup without their top picks leading the way?

Since you are either unwilling or unable to process nuance, I’ll distill this into a very simple question for you.

Do you think, if given whatever situational ice time you think they need, that Laf and Kakko will develop into better players than Panarin and Zibanejad?

 

[Jauffre]

Good to see the development is finally underway, 178 games in. Future is bright. /s

 

[CasusBelli]

I might just take a mid-second through early-third rounder for him at this point. Doubt he’d fetch a first or even a high second.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

zero phucking shots on goal. the team had 40 shot you would think he would have attempted at least 3-4 right? ZERO shot attempts.

in other news...

the giants just defeated the vikings