Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Deleted member 23124]

Is he exempt from waivers? If so, for how long? It's the same way I feel about randomly shoving him on the first power play: he isn't building confidence or skills in the current situation, it's not about promoting him or demoting him

No.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It's not negligence to waste Fox because he's 24 and is gonna be here a while. Zibanejad is not some irreplaceable player. He's the first good 1C we've had in a while but just about every competing team has his equivalent or better. The lack of good 1Cs that come through here isn't a statement on how rare players of his caliber are, it's an indictment of our organization and fostering/developing offensive talent.

It would sting to not win one with Shesterkin, true, but what I really don't want is to waste another decade of a Vezina goalie and not win one either, which is where I fear we are almost certainly headed. I'd rather get out in front of this problem.

It only "took," the Rangers 100 years to land such high picks because of how they do business: they refuse to rebuild properly. The first time they tried it in my lifetime, they got first and second overall twice in four tries. It's not that hard to get into the top 5, anyway, and get Matthew Tkachuks and Trevor Zegrases and Tim Stuetzles.

This is a very good team, with a good mix of vets and guys on ELC. It truly sucks that Laf hasn't taken the next step but it's foolish to think they should go back to the drawing board for another five years waiting for these mythical players to arrive when you look at what's already here on offense and defense.

 

[Lua]

Julian Gauthier has 6 EVG and he plays 8:52 a night. Laf has 5 and plays 14:51. That’s not only a full 6 minutes per game, but Laf has played 10 more games. That’s 30x6 (180) + 10x 14:51 (145). So 325 more minutes played for Laf and less EV goals than Gauthier. Does that mean Gauthier is going to be a 40 goal scorer if stupid Gallant would just use him right? Is that how it works?

I wish Laf looked as good as Gauthier this year

 

[Lua]

Dont think thats a fair comparison.

Gaut is 25 years old. Physically, he's in a different stratosphere than Laffy. Not an apples to apples comparison.

the fact that we have to put our thumb on the scale when weighing our first overall pick against Julien f***ing Gauthier is so beyond depressing it makes me not even want to exist anymore

 

[chosen]

with this organization history more often than not will repeat itself. with regards to drafting and developing skill sets of offensive talents:

-most often it's a guy that they chose who just flat out sucked for whatever reason
-5-6 years to develop players who eventually hits the 60 pt mark. and will only hit that mark maybe one more time if still with us. if some of them leave us they'll hit 60+ maybe a few more times and sometimes hit 80+ once or twice.

what this organization doesn't do is develop players in the level of hall of fame offensive juggernauts, hasn't been done for decades and won't ever be done unless the time has come to be proven otherwise.

Yeah, because all clubs develop hall of fame offensive juggernauts.

Hall of fame offensive juggernauts don't turn out great because of teams. They just happen to be great. Like Leetch and Fox on D.

 

[mas0764]

This is a very good team, with a good mix of vets and guys on ELC. It truly sucks that Laf hasn't taken the next step but it's foolish to think they should go back to the drawing board for another five years waiting for these mythical players to arrive when you look at what's already here on offense and defense.

Not sure what's mythical about recently drafted top 5 players who turned into stars. The issue is whether you think this core can do anything but just make the playoffs and win a round or two. I think that's their limit.

I'd rather roll dice on drafting a star in the top 5 than roll dice on "getting hot and maybe we'll win without a true star." The latter happens far less than the former, but that's a matter of preference.

 

[leetch99]

the fact that we have to put our thumb on the scale when weighing our first overall pick against Julien f***ing Gauthier is so beyond depressing it makes me not even want to exist anymore

Speed kills.....even with cement hands . He draws one penalty or has a breakaway almost every 6 minutes he plays . We don't have many players that generate that and those PP's can turn into goals and or wear out the P killers and goalies and Dmen.....it all adds up . With the current state of our 3 on 3 record.....we should be using Gauthier on it instead of Lafreniere . Speed kills .

 

[duhmetreE]

the fact that we have to put our thumb on the scale when weighing our first overall pick against Julien f***ing Gauthier is so beyond depressing it makes me not even want to exist anymore

It is depressing... that's why we don't have to go out of our way to make it look worse than it is.

It's a terrible season from him so far. Lets hope he figures it out soon.

At least he's not worse than our $8M Captain. that's something.

 

[DialUp]

Eh, it isn't worth whatever plugs or reclamation projects we could scrounge for him, nor would the picks (a low first rounder? maybe?) be worth it for us to get rid of him. Rather have fun watching the drama unfold tbh. Keep him.

 

[Crease]

the fact that we have to put our thumb on the scale when weighing our first overall pick against Julien f***ing Gauthier is so beyond depressing it makes me not even want to exist anymore

Yep. And in the Kakko thread we’re talking about uncounted third assists LOL. None of this is fine.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

the fact that we have to put our thumb on the scale when weighing our first overall pick against Julien f***ing Gauthier is so beyond depressing it makes me not even want to exist anymore

This season is really killing my passion for this sport

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Please change thread to Doom and Gloom

 

[bl02]

I'm not giving up on him until I see him in the playoffs again (Hopefully in 4 months). He was a .5 ppg player without any pp time really. Engaged and in peoples faces when the tempo and intensity got ratcheted up.
Is he the type of player that needs to be motivated by that level of intensity/importance of games?

 

[RGY]

Am I really reading that someone wants to start selling off pieces and start the rebuild over???? Oh my God this place is legit bonkers sometimes. Bonkers.

 

[Synergy27]

Not sure what's mythical about recently drafted top 5 players who turned into stars. The issue is whether you think this core can do anything but just make the playoffs and win a round or two. I think that's their limit.

I'd rather roll dice on drafting a star in the top 5 than roll dice on "getting hot and maybe we'll win without a true star." The latter happens far less than the former, but that's a matter of preference.

How good are these players you are hoping to draft? I rip on Panarin a lot, and don’t think he’s worth his cap hit, but he’s a top 5 offensive winger without a doubt. Mika is an elite 1C. Fox is in the conversation for best defenseman in the league year in and year out.

Are we drafting players better than those guys? There are only a small handful of players better than them in the league as it is.

We needed (still need) Laf and Kakko to be elite players as well. We don’t have the elite of the elite (McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc.), so we were always going to have to rely on depth to win to some extent. It was supposed to be a luxury to be able to roll out top end, elite young kids right behind our already elite vets and overwhelm the opposition with depth.

I think we are seeing that you can’t develop high end kids behind high end vets. There’s not enough opportunity to go around.

So I guess you are advocating that we roll the dice on finding players better than our elite (but not best of the best) vet core? Are you advocating that we turns the keys over to Laf and Kakko because they might be better than Panarin and Mika if given the opportunity?

None of this seems plausible to me.

 

[Profet]

KK just got on to a hot streak. I think its 9 points in 10 games.

No reason to believe that it would be impossible for Laf to have a hot streak.

KK has surpassed the eye test for most of this season. He was just unlucky for a long stretch.

Lafreniere has been underwhelming in almost every way this season. There is no reason to believe he will suddenly figure it out and go on a hot streak.

I'm still hopeful Laf will figure it out, but he just hasn't shown signs of being that kind of player (yet).

 

[NickyFotiu]

KK has surpassed the eye test for most of this season. He was just unlucky for a long stretch.

Lafreniere has been underwhelming in almost every way this season. There is no reason to believe he will suddenly figure it out and go on a hot streak.

I'm still hopeful Laf will figure it out, but he just hasn't shown signs of being that kind of player (yet).

He will sooner or later. Hopefully this season. Its a process. KK has gone through it. Chytil has gone through it. Laf needs to go through it.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Even at their worst and even while playing low minutes and no PP time you still more or less always see certain exceptional skills in Kakko and Kravtsov. I'm talking about from the beginning with Kakko and right now with Kravtsov.

Kakko has always been extremely strong on the puck, along the boards and been an enthusiastic backchecker and defender. Everyone other than complete haters identified these skills even when he was getting no ice time.

Currently, you can see that Kravtsov is highly skilled at certain parts of the game. He is a very good passer, sees the ice well and is surprisingly good along the boards in a shifty kind of way (similar to Panarin when he's actually trying).

We are multiple seasons in and I still don't actually know what Lafreniere is good at.

 

[Synergy27]

Even at their worst and even while playing low minutes and no PP time you still more or less always see certain exceptional skills in Kakko and Kravtsov. I'm talking about from the beginning with Kakko and right now with Kravtsov.

Kakko has always been extremely strong on the puck, along the boards and been an enthusiastic backchecker and defender. Everyone other than complete haters identified these skills even when he was getting no ice time.

Currently, you can see that Kravtsov is highly skilled at certain parts of the game. He is a very good passer, sees the ice well and is surprisingly good along the boards in a shifty kind of way (similar to Panarin when he's actually trying).

We are multiple seasons in and I still don't actually know what Lafreniere is good at.

Another simulation I wish I could run:

If you had posted exactly this during Laf’s draft year (that you’re not sure what he’s good at) I guarantee you that everyone here that is defending him and preaching patience would have skewered you and told you to just watch how he’d dominate from day one.

 

[huerter]

In Montreal they are lamenting the fact that Slafovky hasn't scored a point in 12 games, Jake Evans is the only player that shows up every night, and Monahan being injured means that Suzuki is being asked to do too much.

In case anyone was wondering how much fun a rebuild is.

 

[mike14]

In Montreal they are lamenting the fact that Slafovky hasn't scored a point in 12 games, Jake Evans is the only player that shows up every night, and Monahan being injured means that Suzuki is being asked to do too much.

In case anyone was wondering how much fun a rebuild is.

I know it's easier said than done, but Slaf really shouldn't be in the NHL yet. You would have thought Gorts might have learned from bringing KK and Laf up too early...

 

[jerseyjinx94]

The Rangers have two elite forwards in Zibanejad and Panarin.

The Rangers have an elite D in Fox.

They have an elite G in Shesterkin.

That’s four bona fide elite players.

Trocheck is a top 6 F. Kreider is a 1st line quality F.

They just need Kakko, Laf, Chytil and Kravtsov to develop into top 6 quality F. Then they can roll out 3 lines of top 6 quality.

Not many teams in the league can say that.

Rebuilding to find a star in the draft is a good way to build a champion, no question, but the Rangers aren’t in a position to do that. It’s better to stop whining about it and support the players on the team. Laf is being run out of town bc he’s not Connor McDavid from the get go. Let’s try to be a bit more patient.

If Laf becomes a star none of you will apologize or say you were wrong. You’ll be happy and be saying “we’re all fans and rooting for him” or some shit. You’ll just bitch and bitch and if he doesn’t become a star act like you knew all along. Stop acting like you know anything. He’s clearly going through a tough time, let’s see if he has the moxie and will to find his game.

 

[Chaels Arms]

The Rangers have two elite forwards in Zibanejad and Panarin.

The Rangers have an elite D in Fox.

They have an elite G in Shesterkin.

That’s four bona fide elite players.

Trocheck is a top 6 F. Kreider is a 1st line quality F.

They just need Kakko, Laf, Chytil and Kravtsov to develop into top 6 quality F. Then they can roll out 3 lines of top 6 quality.

Not many teams in the league can say that.

Rebuilding to find a star in the draft is a good way to build a champion, no question, but the Rangers aren’t in a position to do that. It’s better to stop whining about it and support the players on the team. Laf is being run out of town bc he’s not Connor McDavid from the get go. Let’s try to be a bit more patient.

If Laf becomes a star none of you will apologize or say you were wrong. You’ll be happy and be saying “we’re all fans and rooting for him” or some shit. You’ll just bitch and bitch and if he doesn’t become a star act like you knew all along. Stop acting like you know anything. He’s clearly going through a tough time, let’s see if he has the moxie and will to find his game.

You say this as if all the people preaching patience will get on their knees and beg for forgiveness if he doesn't pan out. Stop with the condescension. No one is running him out of town. We are talking about what we're seeing from him as a hockey player and it's not what was expected and it's not even close to what he was projected for. You can spin it however you want but that's a fact. You're not a better fan because you choose to stick your head in the sand and pretend everything's OK and he's going to become Conor McDavid and YOU won't apologize or say you were wrong either if he doesn't pan out. Garbage post. Some of you guys are literally virtue signaling your superior Rangers fandom with the logic of "let's see if has moxie" lmao.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

two things from the Devils game

Nice pass on Vesey's goal.

He screwed up in OT. However it's good he was trying to make something happen.

 

[mas0764]

How good are these players you are hoping to draft?

I'm hoping to find a MacKinnon, or if not, at least a couple of Tkachuks or Stuetzles. If I can't find that true elite #1A player, then we need to continue to inundate the roster with #1Bs or #2As, because as we are seeing right now, we are probably not good enough to win it all and it would take a miracle run.

I rip on Panarin a lot, and don’t think he’s worth his cap hit, but he’s a top 5 offensive winger without a doubt. Mika is an elite 1C. Fox is in the conversation for best defenseman in the league year in and year out.

Are we drafting players better than those guys? There are only a small handful of players better than them in the league as it is.

We needed (still need) Laf and Kakko to be elite players as well. We don’t have the elite of the elite (McDavid, MacKinnon, Matthews, etc.), so we were always going to have to rely on depth to win to some extent. It was supposed to be a luxury to be able to roll out top end, elite young kids right behind our already elite vets and overwhelm the opposition with depth.

I think we are seeing that you can’t develop high end kids behind high end vets. There’s not enough opportunity to go around.

So I guess you are advocating that we roll the dice on finding players better than our elite (but not best of the best) vet core? Are you advocating that we turns the keys over to Laf and Kakko because they might be better than Panarin and Mika if given the opportunity?

None of this seems plausible to me.

You are confusing plausible with likely.

None of it is likely. Winning a Cup is hard.

The problem is, and I'm speaking in hypotheticals here, so don't quote me on exact numbers, but the problem is if we have only a 5% chance of finding a MacKinnon level player in the draft, we still only have a 1% chance of winning the Cup as currently constructed.

The real question is if it's POSSIBLE, and it is possible, because the Penguins did it, the Avalanche did it, the Blackhawks did it, the Lightning did it. Wow, that's a lot of teams in, like, the last 12 years who built up multi-Cup winning teams (or multi-Cup capable, in Colorado's case, I think we'd agree). In fact those teams basically win all the Cups.

So if you want one, you gotta be like them. I'm tired of hearing "We can't be them."

Of course we can. It's not a guarantee. It's not like the odds are in our favor. But it's possible.

The problem is, this NY fan base has been trained to reject rebuilding to that goal. Throw away a playoff berth for a rebuild and a chance at developing a winner? NO WAY! ARE YOU CRAZY? WE COULD GET HOT AT THE RIGHT TIME AND WIN ONE CUP IN 80 YEARS!

That has been working for us for so long. Continuing down this path is what's not "plausible."

The Rangers have two elite forwards in Zibanejad and Panarin.

The Rangers have an elite D in Fox.

They have an elite G in Shesterkin.

That’s four bona fide elite players.

Trocheck is a top 6 F. Kreider is a 1st line quality F.

They just need Kakko, Laf, Chytil and Kravtsov to develop into top 6 quality F. Then they can roll out 3 lines of top 6 quality.

Not many teams in the league can say that.

Rebuilding to find a star in the draft is a good way to build a champion, no question, but the Rangers aren’t in a position to do that. It’s better to stop whining about it and support the players on the team. Laf is being run out of town bc he’s not Connor McDavid from the get go. Let’s try to be a bit more patient.

If Laf becomes a star none of you will apologize or say you were wrong. You’ll be happy and be saying “we’re all fans and rooting for him” or some shit. You’ll just bitch and bitch and if he doesn’t become a star act like you knew all along. Stop acting like you know anything. He’s clearly going through a tough time, let’s see if he has the moxie and will to find his game.

I hope you're not talking about me apologizing because I've never said Laf can't become a star. I've said I'm concerned, but never that he can't get there.

And yes if he becomes a star, along with Kakko, then we probably do have enough, if everyone else stays at their current level of production, to win a Cup.

The issue is that if that takes 3 more years for Lafreniere and Kakko to become all-star caliber players, then Panarin, Kreider and Zibanejad will all have fallen off, perhaps dramatically so, and we are in the same boat. Always a good team never a great one.