Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[irishlaxburger2]

Also, don't be completely surprised if he's not getting PP1 minutes because he's due for a new contract this offseason. Granted, there's enough reason/plausible deniability to keep PP1 entirely intact right now. But if I'm Chris Drury facing the cap crunch the Rangers have on their hands this offseason, I don't want Laf getting empty PP points right now anyway. Him signing a cheap bridge deal is literally the only way we keep the team intact going forward.

It just wouldn't shock me one bit if NYR decide to not mess with PP1 at all this year, but magically begin to "test out new combinations" next year. Would be a funny little coincidence with - again - plenty of plausible deniability.

 

[Jauffre]

And if Laf was doing the same, nobody would be complaining about him.

The issue is PP1 time. It’s where everyone accumulates points. IIRC even McDavid is around 50th in the league in 5v5 scoring (or so it was posted a couple weeks back).

McDavid we're talking about here? Tied for 2nd with Crosby? Was tied for 3rd as of Christmas Day.

 

[Rybo]

Im not sure its even considered being optimistic to suggest Stuetzle and Lafreniere are even in the same stratosphere right now

Youre just making faulty claims to try and act high and mighty towards others. Its pathetic really

@bhamill people like you are what make large fan bases look the worst. Insufferable cheerleading of extreme hot takes that eventually make the Rangers fanbase look lost and in denial.

I would suggest to you to be better but Id bet this is just par for the course for you. Must be a fun one to be around

 

[irishlaxburger2]

McDavid we're talking about here? Tied for 2nd with Crosby? Was 4th as of 12/20.

He's currently 51st in 5v5 Points/60 min

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Seeing so many articles outside of this area talking about how Drury could, should or will trade one of Kravstov, Kakko or Lafreniere before the deadline.

A lot of baloney if you ask me.

 

[LokiDog]

All this banging on about Laf’s EV production being proof that it’s his usage that’s been the problem is pretty rubbish.

Half way through the season Brandon Tanev has 20 EV points averaging 14:43 a night. Blake Lizzotte has 19 averaging 12:07. Pavel Zacha, Dillon Dube, Adam Lowry, Eetu Luostarainen, Kevin Lebanc, Tomas Tatar. All have more EVP than Laf playing less than 60 seconds more per game. JORDAN MARTINOOK has 20 EVP. In 40 games. The man’s elite!

EV production is nice but it isn’t the saving grace to Laf’s career so far that people want it to be. Otherwise just give Lizzotte, Lowry, Martinook and Tanev top line minutes and PP time and they’ll be 75 point players, right? That’s how it works - more EV minutes means more EVP? If you put Lowry and Lizzotte on your top PP they’ll start racking up PP points as well as the guys who are playing PP ahead of them, right?

The reason top offensive guys get more minutes and the top PP time is because they deserve and earn it. The reason Blake Lizzotte plays 12:07 a game, despite having 19 EVP, is because he doesn’t deserve more. By the way - every team that has good depth has guys scoring from the bottom six, at even strength, who don’t get PP time. The fact that Laf has 5 goals through 40 games in which he plays 15 minutes per game isn’t somehow better because “yeah, but they’re all EV!”

You know who else has 5 EV goals? Michael Amodio, Garnett Hathaway, Dakota Joshua, Colin White, Derek Ryan, Carl Grundstrom, Klim Kostin, Joe Veleno, Elmer Soderblom, Brett Ritchie (6 EV goals, averaging 9:07 per game - surely he could challenge for the rocket). None of them plays over 12 minutes per game.

 

[Rybo]

He's currently 51st in 5v5 Points/60 min

If youre gonna move goal posts be sure to be more subtle about it next time

 

[Jauffre]

He's currently 51st in 5v5 Points/60 min

Hm, interesting. He's 19th in ES points/60 according to Quant, where did you find 5-on-5 pts/60?

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Hm, interesting. He's 19th in ES points/60 according to Quant, where did you find 5-on-5 pts/60?

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats 2024-2025

Scoring Leaders, Expected Goals, Player Stats

moneypuck.com

 

[SA16]

And if Laf was doing the same, nobody would be complaining about him.

The issue is PP1 time. It’s where everyone accumulates points. IIRC even McDavid is around 50th in the league in 5v5 scoring (or so it was posted a couple weeks back).

The issue isn't accumulating points. It's his play on the ice. If he had an additional 10 points because he played on PP1 it would make no difference except make people feel better about themselves because his raw numbers would like respectable.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The issue isn't accumulating points. It's his play on the ice. If he had an additional 10 points because he played on PP1 it would make no difference except make people feel better about themselves because his raw numbers would like respectable.

Well there’s an argument to be made that he could build some confidence on the puck on the PP . And unlike last season , our PP is pretty ass this season so a coach who isn’t a slave to big money vets might want to try mixing things up. Although Kakko is way ahead in the pecking order than Laf, or should be

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I'm not all that worried about Panarin as long as 2023 playoff Panarin is much better than the 2022 version.

2022 playoff Panarin was an anomaly for him. I am not worried.

 

[CLW]

I still have hope for Kakko in particular. He has flashes and Laf... really doesn't. I'm really curious what Kakko's game will look like at age 23-24

Kakko will be fine. He's already a very good first line player and will end up an elite first line player at minimum. I kinda find the weeping and gnashing of teeth here funny even if I fully understand the fury.

Just the other week Kakko told Vince in an interview that he is happy to play on the first line with such good players as Kreider and Zib and his job is to get them the puck. That there is the whole issue wrapped up. The kids are not the main attraction in this circus. The organization, the coaches and the team mates see them as the supporting cast. The kids are literally told to wait their turn, to "trust the process". Nobody that makes decisions in this org gives a shit about the fans' expectations.

 

[ReddestRum]

I never thought that the Cult of Laf would go so far as to use any of McDavid's stats in a way to prop up Laf's stats, but here we are.

McDavid.

 

[LokiDog]

Julian Gauthier has 6 EVG and he plays 8:52 a night. Laf has 5 and plays 14:51. That’s not only a full 6 minutes per game, but Laf has played 10 more games. That’s 30x6 (180) + 10x 14:51 (145). So 325 more minutes played for Laf and less EV goals than Gauthier. Does that mean Gauthier is going to be a 40 goal scorer if stupid Gallant would just use him right? Is that how it works?

EV production isn’t the indicator that people think it is. Continuously pointing and saying but he has similar EV production to Hughes or Stutzle doesn’t level the playing feel the way some people want it to. Watching the games it’s abundantly clear why guys like Lizzotte, Tanev, Gauthier, Ritchie and, yes, Lafreniere don’t get the usage guys like Hughes and Stutzle do and it has everything to do with performance.

 

[bhamill]

doom and gloom might be a tad much.

i can forgive and at the same time couldn't forget no matter how hard if i wanted to try that OT 'tard moment. hey it happened we all on. there's still another 41 games to go. i've already pointed out that there might be something to work with if the kid manages somehow to finish the season with 40 total pts.

i'm not expecting elite mackinnon, panarin levels of scoring from the guy. doing so would be considered beyond insane. if he has a career like alex steen i would actually be ecstatic. is that unreasonable? i dunno.

Unreasonable? Nope. And I hope he does better than some of the lower expectations of course. Doom and gloom might be a tad too much for your take, fair enough. But some of the stuff on here…

 

[Jauffre]

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats 2024-2025

Scoring Leaders, Expected Goals, Player Stats

moneypuck.com

In the case of McDavid I'm not sure that stat's all that relevant lol. Tied for 5th in goals (with Pasta) @ 5-on-5. When I look at some of the names ahead of him, the stat screams extraneous to me.

This is a case of looking too hard at something that's very, very clear. Would you rather have Daniel Sprong playing top 5-on-5 minutes, or McDavid? It's a rhetorical question obviously.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I wonder if he already requested a trade and maybe that is why he’s been in rumors lately and his play his down. I can see this happening considering the Rangers luck

 

[irishlaxburger2]

Julian Gauthier has 6 EVG and he plays 8:52 a night. Laf has 5 and plays 14:51. That’s not only a full 6 minutes per game, but Laf has played 10 more games. That’s 30x6 (180) + 10x 14:51 (145). So 325 more minutes played for Laf and less EV goals than Gauthier. Does that mean Gauthier is going to be a 40 goal scorer if stupid Gallant would just use him right? Is that how it works?

EV production isn’t the indicator that people think it is. Continuously pointing and saying but he has similar EV production to Hughes or Stutzle doesn’t level the playing feel the way some people want it to. Watching the games it’s abundantly clear why guys like Lizzotte, Tanev, Gauthier, Ritchie and, yes, Lafreniere don’t get the usage guys like Hughes and Stutzle do and it has everything to do with performance.

Fair points. But if you gave a player like Hughes the same treatment of accountability that Lafreniere is getting right now, he would've never justified top line or PP1 minutes either, because he was absolute trash to begin his career. But he was given those minutes anyway because of potential and the Devils' long-term outlook instead of trying to win immediately. And believe it or not, it allowed Hughes to keep his confidence and pick up his play, which eventually justified his top line and PP1 usage. But it took quite awhile.

With top picks like this, you need to let them play through short-term garbage performances and still force them into top minutes/PP1 because it's a long-term investment. The Rangers, who are constantly in "win now" mode, have never, ever done that with prospects. And shockingly, our offensive prospects have never prospered. That's no coincidence.

 

[bhamill]

Nobody cares about your gibberish

Youre over here trying to dress a PPG+ center aged 20 in the same light as a guy with less points in three seasons than one of Stuetzle's

Theres a term for your nonsense; its sometimes known as fake news, but I prefer to go with misleading bullshit

Apparently you care enough to get bent out of shape and start resorting to insults about me simply stating an obvious objective fact: their even strength scoring is comparable. There’s no way around it. The numbers are the numbers.
Have a great night.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I just got a DM from avgard, after I pressed him to post on Laf:

I follow lafresgu in hilites. He look not good becuz bigbellyman Galant not give minites with panarins. It look thru glass for the top pick rangers make big error. No teachings. No divelipments. Laugh all day. It sad. Good day.

--sir avgard, hockey professor

Unbelievable.

 

[bhamill]

Im not sure its even considered being optimistic to suggest Stuetzle and Lafreniere are even in the same stratosphere right now

Youre just making faulty claims to try and act high and mighty towards others. Its pathetic really

@bhamill people like you are what make large fan bases look the worst. Insufferable cheerleading of extreme hot takes that eventually make the Rangers fanbase look lost and in denial.

I would suggest to you to be better but Id bet this is just par for the course for you. Must be a fun one to be around

Not sure why you are so emotionally invested in this issue, but try going back and finding one thing I said running down a player from another team, or even saying Lafreniere was playing better than any of them. In fact I said Stutzle was looking better than Laf. However, if you don’t understand the point about opportunity and usage that’s on you, their even strength point totals are still only 5 apart… deal with it. Or don’t. This is a you problem.

 

[SA16]

In the case of McDavid I'm not sure that stat's all that relevant lol. Tied for 5th in goals (with Pasta) @ 5-on-5. When I look at some of the names ahead of him, the stat screams extraneous to me.

This is a case of looking too hard at something that's very, very clear. Would you rather have Daniel Sprong playing top 5-on-5 minutes, or McDavid? It's a rhetorical question obviously.

It's a case of not understanding sample sizes and thinking things matter because "40 games is long enough" or "a season is long enough" with no actual proof that that is truly "long enough"

 

[DanielBrassard]

And if Laf was doing the same, nobody would be complaining about him.

The issue is PP1 time. It’s where everyone accumulates points. IIRC even McDavid is around 50th in the league in 5v5 scoring (or so it was posted a couple weeks back).

How about Laf starts dominating in the minutes he does get, for a start. Forget about the points, forget about the PP. Just play well when you get ice time. That's all I ask. I didn't watch last night's game in real time but I watched the replay and he didn't look any worse last night than he usually does. Yeah the play in OT was brutal but I'm a bit surprised this thread is popping off after that game in particular.

 

[irishlaxburger2]

How about Laf starts dominating in the minutes he does get, for a start. Forget about the points, forget about the PP. Just play well when you get ice time. That's all I ask. I didn't watch last night's game in real time but I watched the replay and he didn't look any worse last night than he usually does. Yeah the play in OT was brutal but I'm a bit surprised this thread is popping off after that game in particular.

He's clearly playing with very little confidence right now. I know the "BUT WE NEED TO HOLD PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE" police are going to say to send him down, or bench him, or keep giving him 3rd line minutes, but the reality is he's not going to gain confidence by doing those. He just might if you put him in opportunities to actually start producing points (ie. top line minutes or PP1). Could that come at short-term peril to the team's record? Absolutely. But it's the best move long-term.

But this is the problem with NYR. They're trying to win now and develop young talent for the future, at the same time. The two are generally antithetical ideas.