Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Synergy27]

Yeah, that Prospects board bump sure is something isn’t it.

The people here defending Laf and still calling for patience seem to have forgotten what we all thought we were getting ourselves into with him.

This was a near generational, salivated over for years, completely non-controversial 1OA that was meant to contribute majorly from DAY ONE. Full stop, that was the consensus analysis.

What the hell happened?

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Damn...he is not waiver exempt so impossible to send him down for a stretch outside of a conditioning run ......

Thanks for this info....I'd been searching around trying to find the answer.....certainly explains why GG didn't have him sent down months ago (I suspect he would have started the season in Hartford).

 

[The S5]

I just want to know what the organization is doing to try to turn things around. Laf is a non-factor in year three. Fans are hanging onto signs that Chytil and Kakko “might be” breaking out in their fifth and fourth years, respectively. Kravtsov finally just learned how to take a regular shift five years after being drafted. This is a pants on fire situation that should warrant clearing house and bringing in an entirely new coaching staff that is dedicated to getting the kids going. Because without them there is no foreseeable future. Instead, the organization simply dumps their crown jewels onto the third line and leaves them to their own devices.

I am giving my opinion, ymmv, but Chytil and Kakko showed promise early on. Production wasn't there but I, at least, had the feeling that these guys would develop into good players. Now, they have developed and are legit NHL top 6 players, albeit not superstars. In Chytil's case, that was never the expectation anyway.
My concern with Laffy is that I never saw that spark. Even in the playoffs last year, I didn't see someone who looked like he would become dominant in the future. I do think that he can become a productive player, but we all need to lower our expectations tenfold. If he exceeds, great, but as of today, odds are he is Derek Stepan.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

Yeah, that Prospects board bump sure is something isn’t it.

The people here defending Laf and still calling for patience seem to have forgotten what we all thought we were getting ourselves into with him.

This was a near generational, salivated over for years, completely non-controversial 1OA that was meant to contribute majorly from DAY ONE. Full stop, that was the consensus analysis.

What the hell happened?

Garbage coaches and an ass backwards organization that won't give him top line and top PP minutes. It's pretty simple. All the top young players in the league were put in positions to be "the guy" and then they became "the guy". Put the player on the 3rd line, limit his ice time, dont give him any meaningful special teams time, and bench and scratch him every time he makes a simple mistake and you get where we are with laf.

What the f*** do people want from this kid realistically? He's still producing 5v5. He gets shit ice time.

And the blaming him for a loss against NJ when he's in the role hes in is f***ing embarrassing when there's a guy getting 11 mil to be "the guy" and Zibanejad and Kreider acted like a little bitch half the season because they didn't get the 'C'. Trocheck who has the same EV points as Lafreniere despite consistently playing with aforementioned 11 mil man. What's his excuse? Don't blame these guys... blame the 21 year old who hasn't been put in a position to grow at all.

Joke.

 

[leetch99]

Thanks for this info....I'd been searching around trying to find the answer.....certainly explains why GG didn't have him sent down months ago (I suspect he would have started the season in Hartford).

Well...FWIW....according to Cap Friendly.....Schneider is our only guy that can slide to the AHL on our present roster . He also has 400 grand in performance bonuses......which are ???? Anyone ?? Lafreniere has close to 3 million which likely are quite safe and Miller has 400 grand as well in performance bonus figures . Cap Friendly is such a wealth of info.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

If he is not used in a trade package.....a big one like Chychrun or as such....then I send him to AHL for the rest of the season and only bring him back for the playoffs or if needed for an injury replacement on the Rangers . Let him do a restart from scratch down in the A and hopefully he gets his mental and physical game in sync and then has a heck of a playoff for us . He needs 20 minutes a game and PP 1 duty in the A ....build up the confidence . Work with him....it is in our best interest and his . EDIT: Damn...he is not waiver exempt so impossible to send him down for a stretch outside of a conditioning run ......so that ship has sailed . Good Luck Rangers with him.

If I'm Drury, there's no way I trade him. If he fails here, "he just wasn't good enough". He blows up somewhere else, you lose your job probably. I do like the idea of Chychrun if you can get Arizona to come down a little. He would shoot Ben Harper back to Bonnaroo where he belongs.

From what I've read here and what my buddies have texted me is Laf isn't waiver exempt. He would have to agree to a conditioning assignment. Or he's a healthy scratch for 5 games and can then go on a conditioning assignment. Or he gets injured, or "injured", and goes on the conditioning assignment.

Whatever if it is, I would like to see him down there getting a reboot. Being "the guy" again, getting that alpha confidence back. I think he needs it, he looks bored and uninterested as a JAG. And in the off-season he needs to train for a marathon as his stamina is god awful. It's possible his whole life he never had to skate hard as he was always so much more talented and skilled. Bad on us for waiting 3 years to address it.

 

[bbny]

Yeah, that Prospects board bump sure is something isn’t it.

The people here defending Laf and still calling for patience seem to have forgotten what we all thought we were getting ourselves into with him.

This was a near generational, salivated over for years, completely non-controversial 1OA that was meant to contribute majorly from DAY ONE. Full stop, that was the consensus analysis.

What the hell happened?

I think he just stopped improving physically. If he’s giving it 110% in the offseasons with working out, eating right, etc., then I question the training program he’s following. If there’s nothing wrong with the program, and we are looking at a guy whose skating or conditioning won’t improve drastically from what it is today, then we’ve got a 3rd line player with the 1OA.

People say they haven’t seen the talent, but I have. He just can’t use it effectively because he appears to be in bad shape by NHL standards. Nothing to do with ice time. I’m pretty sure he’d faint on ice right now if he played 18-20 a night.

 

[Synergy27]

Garbage coaches and an ass backwards organization that won't give him top line and top PP minutes. It's pretty simple. All the top young players in the league were put in positions to be "the guy" and then they became "the guy". Put the player on the 3rd line, limit his ice time, dont give him any meaningful special teams time, and bench and scratch him every time he makes a simple mistake and you get where we are with laf.

What the f*** do people want from this kid realistically? He's still producing 5v5. He gets shit ice time.

And the blaming him for a loss against NJ when he's in the role hes in is f***ing embarrassing when there's a guy getting 11 mil to be "the guy" and Zibanejad and Kreider acted like a little bitch half the season because they didn't get the 'C'. Trocheck who has the same EV points as Lafreniere despite consistently playing with aforementioned 11 mil man. What's his excuse? Don't blame these guys... blame the 21 year old who hasn't been put in a position to grow at all.

Joke.

I don’t know if you are meaning to do this, but you are essentially arguing against the lottery. Perhaps it is best for the league and the players themselves to send these top picks to bottom feeders where they are the guy by default?

Fox, Zib, Kreider, and Panarin (despite all the hate he gets from me) deserve to be on PP1. It can be argued that forcing a kid into that fifth position is what’s best for the team.

But why is that Laf and not Kakko? Doesn’t Kakko deserve it more because he’s both a top pick AND has seniority?

There isn’t enough room on a roster with a bunch of top players already on it to develop top picks. Perhaps it’s as simple as that?

 

[will1066]

Garbage coaches and an ass backwards organization that won't give him top line and top PP minutes. It's pretty simple. All the top young players in the league were put in positions to be "the guy" and then they became "the guy". Put the player on the 3rd line, limit his ice time, dont give him any meaningful special teams time, and bench and scratch him every time he makes a simple mistake and you get where we are with laf.

What the f*** do people want from this kid realistically? He's still producing 5v5. He gets shit ice time.

And the blaming him for a loss against NJ when he's in the role hes in is f***ing embarrassing when there's a guy getting 11 mil to be "the guy" and Zibanejad and Kreider acted like a little bitch half the season because they didn't get the 'C'. Trocheck who has the same EV points as Lafreniere despite consistently playing with aforementioned 11 mil man. What's his excuse? Don't blame these guys... blame the 21 year old who hasn't been put in a position to grow at all.

Joke.

Find another organization then. And I actually like Laf and want him to succeed. But you're insufferable when you conveniently ignore that he's had opportunities to play on the top 2 lines and continuously make the blame one-sided. I actually agree with you about the vet preference, as well. Your takes are mostly cringe material, however. And before you come back at me, I'm not one of those who blame Laf for the loss. Check the threads, I never said anything like that. This isn't some zero-sum situation.

Right or wrong, the organization put their money on those vets and to win, thinking they got the right blend of players. Right or wrong, this is the train we're on. And the head coach rightfully said he's here to win games. That's his living he's making, he was hired to win games, coaches have careers too. He's leaning heavily on those high-price investments by the organization. He's not a kid-sitter. Quinn was fired because he couldn't win games and missed the playoffs, moreso than his relationships with the kids.

The Rangers were never and are never going to do a traditional rebuild. Never going to hand the keys to a kid at 18 years old even if he was 1OA and make him "the guy" and face of the organization. You are naive if you ever thought that. The Rangers believe they are a prestige organization and must have a marquee big-name player to be the guy. That's how it operates.

 

[xsniper11x]

I think it comes down to what Laffy does this summer. I was listening to Vally on Staples pod cast. He said the NHL is not a developmental league. He said development happens during the summer. He went on to relay how he had, what he thought was, a solid season with the Isles when he was 21-22. He said that that summer was full of “electives”…meaning he was golfing and taking guitar lessons lol! The next season…garbage. The following summer he hired a nutritionist, a personal trainer, etc. What he thinks might have happened is Laff had his mini break out during the playoffs, thought he’d made it and probably laid off the pedal during the summer. Because this kid looks like dogshit this year.

It’s all speculation, but it’s the best rationale I can come up with as why he looks worse this year than the previous two. Before you saw a kid that could execute some solid plays with space, but that space didn’t come often as he (and 90% of his teammates) lack speed. It’s why he and Kakko looked their best last year w/ Chytil, who was our only skilled player that had anything representing a motor.

Recently he’s just not executing anything, whether he has space or not. He looks like he’s hauling ass out there. That sounds like a conditioning issue, and while that’s entirely on him, it’s at least addressable.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Well...FWIW....according to Cap Friendly.....Schneider is our only guy that can slide to the AHL on our present roster . He also has 400 grand in performance bonuses......which are ???? Anyone ?? Lafreniere has close to 3 million which likely are quite safe and Miller has 400 grand as well in performance bonus figures . Cap Friendly is such a wealth of info.

One day, I'll take notice of all those symbols on the bottom of a page.

 

[leetch99]

One day, I'll take notice of all those symbols on the bottom of a page.

On Cap Friendly you can click on the varuious headers and it will sift and sort stuff as per your wants .....very informative if you are looking down the road .

 

[Deleted member 23124]

On Cap Friendly you can click on the varuious headers and it will sift and sort stuff as per your wants .....very informative if you are looking down the road .

I knew that....I just never paid much (if any) attention to the little symbols in the "Terms" column....if I had, I would have seen (as you pointed out) that Schneider was the only one with the green downward arrow (actually he's the only one with an arrow period). Talk about hiding in plain sight. Thanks again.

 

[EdJovanovski]

100% this. Yeah everyone wishes he was as good as Hughes. It was a shitty draft year, byfield still isn’t a full timer. The kid is only 20 he’s got talent. He has the same amount of point as kakko while playing with less minutes and jimmy vesey. He’s not noticeable which sucks cause I wish he was more noticeable but he’s not a train wreck. People just need someone to be angry about. It blows my mind how kakko goes from god level prospect to trade him and now he’s basically untouchable with 18 points on the season. Everyone wanted to banish chytil last season because he wasn’t playing well until the playoffs. Have a little patience, he’s not flashy, and hopefully he takes a small bridge and actually starts to prove himself like kk & chytil after their bridges

Yea people are getting way too excited about Kakko and inhaling large amounts of copium, he’s still having a pretty awful year on pace for 36 points in his 4th season. This guy was penciled in by everyone for 65+pts his rookie season lol. His “elite defense” is way worse than Kravs according to the analytics, to go with his worse offense.

 

[bbny]

Find another organization then. And I actually like Laf and want him to succeed. But you're insufferable when you conveniently ignore that he's had opportunities to play on the top 2 lines and continuously make the blame one-sided. I actually agree with you about the vet preference, as well. Your takes are mostly cringe material, however. And before you come back at me, I'm not one of those who blame Laf for the loss. Check the threads, I never said anything like that. This isn't some zero-sum situation.

Right or wrong, the organization put their money on those vets and to win, thinking they got the right blend of players. Right or wrong. This is the train we're on. And the head coach rightfully said he's here to win games. That's his living he's making, he was hired to win games, coaches have careers too. He's leaning heavily on those high-price investments by the organization. He's not a kid-sitter. Quinn was fired because he couldn't win games and missed the playoffs, moreso than his relationships with the kids.

The Rangers were never and are never going to do a traditional rebuild.

I agree with a lot of this, but with respect to the bold I believe if Panarin didn’t happen to be a UFA with a high chance of picking the Rangers, there would have been a more traditional rebuild. JD knew Panarin well and since he happened to be coming back to the Rangers at the same time, he probably felt the Rangers would land Panarin. I think that changed everything. Not even completely sure the Trouba trade happens if they weren’t banking on signing Panarin.

I can’t really fault the Rangers for taking that direction. Panarins don’t often become UFAs, and the Rangers still had a handful of really good players near the top of the lineup that made a “hybrid rebuild” look attractive. Plus, the jury is still out. The team is close to Stanley Cup worthy, even if the kids aren’t “slam dunks” like everyone thought they were at the draft.

 

[will1066]

Yea people are getting way too excited about Kakko and inhaling large amounts of copium, he’s still having a pretty awful year on pace for 36 points in his 4th season. This guy was penciled in by everyone for 65+pts his rookie season lol. His “elite defense” is way worse than Kravs according to the analytics, to go with his worse offense.

A lot of short term memories here. Kakko is on a bit of heater currently and finally shows he and the high-price vets can play together. This wasn't the case not too long ago. It's nice to see Kakko succeeding, but I'm keeping it real. After the kid line looked so great in the playoffs, we all thought the trio would immediately pick up where they left off. Kakko required half a season to get going again instead. Chytil is now finally able to remain healthy for a while, knock on wood. Let's not forget that the kid line was put together because blended top 6 lines of vets and kids never worked consistently enough in the first place.

 

[will1066]

I agree with a lot of this, but with respect to the bold I believe if Panarin didn’t happen to be a UFA with a high chance of picking the Rangers, there would have been a more traditional rebuild. JD knew Panarin well and since he happened to be coming back to the Rangers at the same time, he probably felt the Rangers would land Panarin. I think that changed everything. Not even completely sure the Trouba trade happens if they weren’t banking on signing Panarin.

I can’t really fault the Rangers for taking that direction. Panarins don’t often become UFAs, and the Rangers still had a handful of really good players near the top of the lineup that made a “hybrid rebuild” look attractive. Plus, the jury is still out. The team is close to Stanley Cup worthy, even if the kids aren’t “slam dunks” like everyone thought they were at the draft.

In response, I agree with a lot of this too. Panarin altered the course and sped up the need to win. Of course, no one anticipated that he would have devolved into the present-day player, playing what's quickly becoming an antiquated style of dance hockey.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Find another organization then. And I actually like Laf and want him to succeed. But you're insufferable when you conveniently ignore that he's had opportunities to play on the top 2 lines and continuously make the blame one-sided. I actually agree with you about the vet preference, as well. Your takes are mostly cringe material, however. And before you come back at me, I'm not one of those who blame Laf for the loss. Check the threads, I never said anything like that. This isn't some zero-sum situation.

Right or wrong, the organization put their money on those vets and to win, thinking they got the right blend of players. Right or wrong, this is the train we're on. And the head coach rightfully said he's here to win games. That's his living he's making, he was hired to win games, coaches have careers too. He's leaning heavily on those high-price investments by the organization. He's not a kid-sitter. Quinn was fired because he couldn't win games and missed the playoffs, moreso than his relationships with the kids.

The Rangers were never and are never going to do a traditional rebuild. Never going to hand a kid at 18 years old even if he was 1OA and make him "the guy" and face of the organization. You are naive if you ever thought that. The Rangers believe they are a prestige organization and must have a marquee big-name player to be the guy. That's how it operates.

You aren’t wrong. However it is particularly frustrating because I thought with “the letter” and the decision to actually be sellers I thought maybe, just maybe, the franchise had developed the self awareness to realize that their typical approach does not work.

Call me naive I guess. I thought that maybe they finally decided to look in the mirror, let the results (1 Cup in 80+ years despite all the financial resources in the world) speak for themselves, and realize that the “NYR way” will never work.

But it turns out that was yet another PR campaign.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

You make it sound like 21 mins a night with linemates like Giroux, Tkachuk and Debrincat and constant pp1 time are unfortunate circumstances.…
Stutzle currently has 22 EV points to Lafrenierre’s 17…

and batherson too. stoots is running what is equivalent to an nfl team run and shoot offense. of course teams like that win percentage wise generally hover around the .500 mark, which is what the sens are right now. it's fun entertainment is what the sens are providing to their fans.

days before the EV gap was standing at 3 for a while. now it's at 5. that too the gap will widen.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

You aren’t wrong. However it is particularly frustrating because I thought with “the letter” and the decision to actually be sellers I thought maybe, just maybe, the franchise had developed the self awareness to realize that their typical approach does not work.

Call me naive I guess. I thought that maybe they finally decided to look in the mirror, let the results (1 Cup in 80+ years despite all the financial resources in the world) speak for themselves, and realize that the “NYR way” will never work.

But it turns out that was yet another PR campaign.

This is what gets me as well. A lot of frustration is because of that stupid letter.

There was no need to send it. You’re a professional sports team, do whatever you want. When you send it and then don’t follow it, it casts a shadow of confusion and incompetence.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Yeah, that Prospects board bump sure is something isn’t it.

The people here defending Laf and still calling for patience seem to have forgotten what we all thought we were getting ourselves into with him.

This was a near generational, salivated over for years, completely non-controversial 1OA that was meant to contribute majorly from DAY ONE. Full stop, that was the consensus analysis.

What the hell happened?

maybe all the people - the so-called experts - that get paid to critique, scout and write about prospects they conclude as can't miss actually missed big time themselves. has any one of them come out in the open and admitted that they were way off?

 

[Deleted member 23124]

You aren’t wrong. However it is particularly frustrating because I thought with “the letter” and the decision to actually be sellers I thought maybe, just maybe, the franchise had developed the self awareness to realize that their typical approach does not work.

Call me naive I guess. I thought that maybe they finally decided to look in the mirror, let the results (1 Cup in 80+ years despite all the financial resources in the world) speak for themselves, and realize that the “NYR way” will never work.

But it turns out that was yet another PR campaign.

I'm curious to know what convinced The Dolt to go along with it. My guess is that they got Sather to get him to agree and all was well until The Dolt saw that shiny bauble named Panarin -- and we know how he is when he sees new toys.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

This is what gets me as well. A lot of frustration is because of that stupid letter.

There was no need to send it. You’re a professional sports team, do whatever you want. When you send it and then don’t follow it, it casts a shadow of confusion and incompetence.

The bolded is standard operating procedure for The Dolt. Look at the mess he's made of the Knucks....they're still trying to dig out from the Isaiah disaster (among others).

 

[will1066]

maybe all the people - the so-called experts - that get paid to critique, scout and write about prospects they conclude as can't miss actually missed big time themselves. has any one of them come out in the open and admitted that they were way off?

Yep. The Rangers did nothing wrong in selecting Kakko and Laf. They were consensus picks. The so-called experts may have gotten them wrong. If they had the top pick, they likely would have selected Hughes. Unfortunately people make mistakes. And all the time. A combination of bad scouting and bad luck with the Lias Andersson flameout. The Rangers are definitely at fault for perpetuating themselves as a prestige O6 franchise that doesn't/can't rebuild traditionally and for their philosophies and strategies and country club culture.

 

[Leonardo87]

It Laf was not a 1stOA pick there wouldn’t be this much criticism on him. Also, remember Mika was a 6thOA and he didn’t break out till he was 24-25 yo, and he did it on the Rangers. A lot of players have taken till their mid-20’a to really break out.

It’s frustrating with Laf no doubt but he still has time to develop and grow. I have also criticized him, rightfully so, but don’t think they should be giving up on this kid.

As per more mins, that’s not the answer. He has to earn it, like Kakko did.