Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[mrmovies779]

But the idea that he ONLY plays bottom six minutes is a fabrication. He AVERAGES bottom six minutes. He has had plenty of opportunities with non-bottom six players. Moreover, Hagel, Sherangovich, Neidereitter, Colton, Jeannot, Debrusk, Danault, Verhaege all scored move EV goals than Laf last year and they’re not some high end offensive superstars. Ryan Hartman he 33 EV goals. Colton averaged barely over 12 minutes per game, Hagel averaged under 14 with Tampa, about 17 with Chicago, Jeannott averaged under 16, Sherangovich under 16, Neiderreiter under 15, Verhaege 16 on the nose, Debrusk 15 on the nose. Hartman’s previous career high was 31 points before 33 EV goals.

None of these guys is expected to become point per game players. Laf averaged 14 last year, he’s just under 15 this year. Hanging on to “19 EV goals” as proof of his superstar talent lurking beneath the surface is bogus. I asked where we see the talent. Why is Ross Colton in 12 minutes per game scoring more EV goals than Laf in 14? Which of those guys has a 70 point season in their future? They all had 20+ EV goals last year.

You asked where the talent was,not where the superstar talent was.Maybe he never hits superstar level with his talent.nobody knows.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Lafy is a 20-25 point player, considering where he was drafted, that is awful and concerning. Dom Moore had 3 less points with 18 than Lafy had with 21 in his rookie year while Moore was on the 4th line

 

[huerter]

Lafy is a 20-25 point player, considering where he was drafted, that is awful and concerning. Dom Moore had 3 less points with 18 than Lafy had with 21 in his rookie year while Moore was on the 4th line

puntos schmuntos

 

[xsniper11x]

the offseason? the scratch? the phuck? maybe you should see if he needs a public relations agent - you are absolutely perfect for that position.

the scratch - maybe this happened because he did stuff during practice that just flat out sucked?

the offseason - this is his 3rd season in the league already. he should know by now how grueling a regular season can be. especially after a regular season last year with the playoffs.

I’m saying we scratched him to try to light a fire under his ass, and so far it hasn’t worked. If it’s a conditioning problem, then a scratch isn’t going to solve it. Only an offseason of serious training and correcting whatever bad habits/ideas he’s adopted will. Idk how accusing Laf of being lazy last summer after a deep PO run is providing “good PR.”

You’re right to assume he should be doing all that stuff already. Doesn’t mean he is, or at the level that is necessary for his skillset given his lack of speed.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Ok if it’s crazy then answer my simple question. Saying “that’s crazy” is a dumb out, if I’m so wrong embarrass me and prove me wrong. Tell me the skills he possesses now that he’s shows in his pre draft videos. Tell me what he’s brought over to the nhl. The minutes are irrelevant, tell me what he’s done. Saying “he was drafted 1st” doesn’t mean shit

The player drafted would be a future move to stay competitive. Obviously not a move to improve the team not idk how that’s not common sense. After 2 years in the NHL yeah I’d hope he’s on pp1

I didn’t say the “skills that he shows” are anything, you did. I understand that the “skills” a player shows are beyond just his physical abilities, but also are part of a mental side of the game, i.e. confidence.

You can point to a number of players, Kakko included, who a year ago people were saying the same thing and now everyone is jumping for joy and amazed at how he’s controlling the puck.

I’m not saying Laffy is a world beater or that I’m happy with his development. I’m not. But you’re actively trying to trade him meaning you want to give up on his potential NOW, I’m saying that’s premature and cautioning that you have patience. Not sure why I have to “embarrass you.”

I just think it’s a laughable position and almost a meme-Rangers fan stance to give up on the kid at 20 y/o before he even completes his ELC. It’s exactly why the organization won’t properly rebuild, bc the fans don’t get it, and won’t spend money.

You can’t really have an honest debate about the kid’s game right now. He isn’t playing great and beyond that he’s been jerked around the lineup. He isn’t really showing much of an identity right now and appears lost out there. That, to me, speaks more to a lack of confidence rather than his physical abilities. I’m not going to sit here and pontificate about what player he’ll be at 23 or 25 or whatever. He’s gotta figure it out and the Rangers gotta help him get there.

 

[RangerBlues]

I don’t know what this kid’s problem is and why his production is complete garbage. But he’s looking like a complete bust right now.

 

[Synergy27]

I’ve been saying this for three years now, but for the patience preachers, please quantify when my patience is allowed to run out.

In an attempt to firmly fix the goalposts where they stand, please tell me, with specificity, what type of production you expect to see from Laf and when you expect to see that production.

I don’t even care about production at this point. I just want to see a competent hockey player that looks like he knows what to do when a scoring chance presents itself.

The play in overtime this afternoon is a perfect encapsulation of people’s concern with the kid. It’s one thing to get knocked off the puck, or to be put muscled on the boards, or to make an egregious turnover here and there.

It’s another thing entirely to look utterly clueless in space on an odd man rush. Players with high end skill don’t just get stripped of the puck cleanly that way. You expect to see a first overall caliber player make a big time play there, even if he’s predictably failing at other things around the rink that require experience.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

I’m saying we scratched him to try to light a fire under his ass, and so far it hasn’t worked. If it’s a conditioning problem, then a scratch isn’t going to solve it. Only an offseason of serious training and correcting whatever bad habits/ideas he’s adopted will. Idk how accusing Laf of being lazy last summer after a deep PO run is providing “good PR.”

You’re right to assume he should be doing all that stuff already. Doesn’t mean he is, or at the level that is necessary for his skillset given his lack of speed.

i never said anything about good PR. a pr person doesn't always provide goods news about the client. there are times the pr's job is to explain why the client sucks, and therefore has to make excuses. that's why i said you'd be good at the pr job - you're making excuses for the kid.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I’ve been saying this for three years now, but for the patience preachers, please quantify when my patience is allowed to run out.

In an attempt to firmly fix the goalposts where they stand, please tell me, with specificity, what type of production you expect to see from Laf and when you expect to see that production.

I don’t even care about production at this point. I just want to see a competent hockey player that looks like he knows what to do when a scoring chance presents itself.

It’s not that simple, no one is going to tell you how many years or what type of production YOU should be okay with. What I’m saying at least is that we need to be patient, he hasn’t even played 3 full seasons in the league, he’s 20 years old. Give him time before you run him out of town.

I don’t disagree with the assessment that he’s had a bad year. It’s been frustrating. But patience only exists when there’s a conflict for you to assess, when a frustration exists. If he had 20 goals and 45 points, you wouldn’t need any patience.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s not that simple, no one is going to tell you how many years or what type of production YOU should be okay with. What I’m saying at least is that we need to be patient, he hasn’t even played 3 full seasons in the league, he’s 20 years old. Give him time before you run him out of town.

I don’t disagree with the assessment that he’s had a bad year. It’s been frustrating. But patience only exists when there’s a conflict for you to assess, when a frustration exists. I’d he had 20 goals and 45 points, you wouldn’t need any patience.

He hasn't earned any patience beyond his draft position.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

in other news tonight...

some kid out there who shall remain nameless scored a hat trick, and ended the evening with 4 pts. only one of the pts was through the PP unit.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

He hasn't earned any patience beyond his draft position.

Okay and before he was drafted, did you think he was a top prospect?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Okay and before he was drafted, did you think he was a top prospect?

How is that relevant?

 

[Synergy27]

It’s not that simple, no one is going to tell you how many years or what type of production YOU should be okay with. What I’m saying at least is that we need to be patient, he hasn’t even played 3 full seasons in the league, he’s 20 years old. Give him time before you run him out of town.

I don’t disagree with the assessment that he’s had a bad year. It’s been frustrating. But patience only exists when there’s a conflict for you to assess, when a frustration exists. I’d he had 20 goals and 45 points, you wouldn’t need any patience.

Again, no. You don’t get to preach unqualified “patience” in the face of mounting concern.

If you aren’t concerned and people just need to be patient, it’s on you to explain to everyone else what you see, or what you expect to see, and on what timeline, that leads you to believe that the kid is progressing positively.

Those of us that are worried are able to point to countless examples of the kid failing to live up to the hype, while those of you who are clinging to hope that there is something there can just say “be patient”. I’m done being patient while watching the kid regress and show zero signs of being a difference maker at this level.

 

[Shadowtron]

He hasn't earned any patience beyond his draft position.

This is such a Rangers thing to happen, isn’t it? We finally win the lottery and pick No. 1…in the Patrick Stefan draft. Sigh!

 

[SnowblindNYR]

This is such a Rangers thing to happen, isn’t it? We finally win the lottery and pick No. 1…in the Patrick Stefan draft. Sigh!

Way worse, I believe Stefan wasn't considered a strong #1. Lafreniere was considered a strong, albeit not elite #1. He was seen as a better prospect than Hughes who went in a draft that was considered weaker.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Here’s the reality.

Lafreniere has been a severe disappointment. It’s been frustrating.

You can either be patient with the kid or run him out of town.

Either way, it’s a risk.

People are going to take a stance on something with only 4 possible outcomes so they can turn around in the future and say “I told you so” or they can say “I was wrong” and everyone just likes their posts bc they are happy that something positive is happening.

No one knows what’s gonna happen.

 

[Crease]

I just want to know what the organization is doing to try to turn things around. Laf is a non-factor in year three. Fans are hanging onto signs that Chytil and Kakko “might be” breaking out in their fifth and fourth years, respectively. Kravtsov finally just learned how to take a regular shift five years after being drafted. This is a pants on fire situation that should warrant clearing house and bringing in an entirely new coaching staff that is dedicated to getting the kids going. Because without them there is no foreseeable future. Instead, the organization simply dumps their crown jewels onto the third line and leaves them to their own devices.

 

[huerter]

I just want to know what the organization is doing to try to turn things around. Laf is a non-factor in year three. Fans are hanging onto signs that Chytil and Kakko “might be” breaking out in their fifth and fourth years, respectively. This is a pants on fire situation that should warrant clearing house and bringing in an entirely new coaching staff that is dedicated to getting the kids going. Because without them there is no foreseeable future. Instead, the organization simply dumps their crown jewels onto the third line and leaves them to their own devices.

Should we bring back Ruff? He only played Lester Holtz 8 min today.

 

[Crease]

Should we bring back Ruff? He only played Lester Holtz 8 min today.

Are the only two options Gallant and Ruff?

 

[huerter]

Are the only two options Gallant and Ruff?

Should we bring in Trotz? His protege is playing Raty between Martin and Ross Johnston.

 

[Crease]

Should we bring in Trotz? His protege is playing Raty between Martin and Ross Johnston.

Are the only three options Gallant, Ruff, and Trotz? What is your point?

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I just want to know what the organization is doing to try to turn things around. Laf is a non-factor in year three. Fans are hanging onto signs that Chytil and Kakko “might be” breaking out in their fifth and fourth years, respectively. This is a pants on fire situation that should warrant clearing house and bringing in an entirely new coaching staff that is dedicated to getting the kids going. Because without them there is no foreseeable future. Instead, the organization simply dumps their crown jewels onto the third line and leaves them to their own devices.

I wish it would happen but have to think it’s more likely they go full on ‘94 and trade everything IMO. They will never agree to take a step back because of the playoff run last year.

 

[Taluss]

I didn’t say the “skills that he shows” are anything, you did. I understand that the “skills” a player shows are beyond just his physical abilities, but also are part of a mental side of the game, i.e. confidence.

You can point to a number of players, Kakko included, who a year ago people were saying the same thing and now everyone is jumping for joy and amazed at how he’s controlling the puck.

I’m not saying Laffy is a world beater or that I’m happy with his development. I’m not. But you’re actively trying to trade him meaning you want to give up on his potential NOW, I’m saying that’s premature and cautioning that you have patience. Not sure why I have to “embarrass you.”

I just think it’s a laughable position and almost a meme-Rangers fan stance to give up on the kid at 20 y/o before he even completes his ELC. It’s exactly why the organization won’t properly rebuild, bc the fans don’t get it, and won’t spend money.

You can’t really have an honest debate about the kid’s game right now. He isn’t playing great and beyond that he’s been jerked around the lineup. He isn’t really showing much of an identity right now and appears lost out there. That, to me, speaks more to a lack of confidence rather than his physical abilities. I’m not going to sit here and pontificate about what player he’ll be at 23 or 25 or whatever. He’s gotta figure it out and the Rangers gotta help him get there.

A couple stuff. I didn’t mention any skills that he shows. I said the opposite. Completely agree on the second portion of your paragraph though.

Your 100% right on this next paragraph. No disagreement.

I’m not necessarily actively trying to trade him. But hypothetically I am trying to upgrade a need on this team. Such as a player like Meier and Chych. The time is to win now so I don’t mind paying a high potential 1st liner + to acquire said player. Unfortunately salary cap wouldn’t work though.
Now the thing is I said id trade him for the Panthers 1st and a prospect. This is an exception to my believe of trading him now for a player that can help win now. & I only feel this way due to cap space.

I’m iffy on your final statement because I believe he should be showing SOMETHING. That’s what’s worrying me so much. He’s a 1st ov and looks completely different from the player we drafted. I don’t really disagree though, I do believe confidence is a big issue.

Thank you for a civil debate

 

[huerter]

I wish it would happen but have to think it’s more likely they go full on ‘94 and trade everything IMO. They will never agree to take a step back because of the playoff run last year.

and the 110 points and the bumpy road to 51 first half points.