Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[mas0764]

We need more positivity in this thread.

 

[xsniper11x]

Don't say that name in this thread. According to a few here, he's overrated and not worth the mention.

Stutz looks a lot better than Laf w/o question, but also some perspective. He’s getting 50% of his pts from the PP and has 2 more pts at ES than Kakko and Laf.

What did do from day 1 to earn all that high quality offensive deployment, w/ not just PP but sheltered mins with 65-70% OZ starts? Nothing. He was drafted 3rd overall by a bottom feeder.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I said it last year and was mocked. This kid needs to be in Hartford. He needs to be the guy again. He can’t even take a pass anymore. It’s pathetic.

Go down there rebuild some confidence. If he can even, I’m no contract guy. If not maybe a few games being the healthy scratch again. He hasn’t earned the time.

Become a man over the off-season. Throw out Kakko’s old video games, hang out with his laser beam’s friends and gain some F’n stamina.

 

[haohmaru]

We need more positivity in this thread.

I'm positive Lafreniere has been very disappointing thus far.

 

[Jauffre]

All this talk of development; 1OA picks are supposed to require the least development of anyone.

It's usually more about giving them ice-time, and some room to breathe. In Laf's case maybe he was held to a higher standard than other 1OA's because NYR were never truly a lottery team ala the Ducks. So maybe not a ton of room to make mistakes, but enough room IMO. He's gotten plenty of ice-time to prove something.

1st overalls typically don't require all that much bakin' in the oven, they're supposed to be good players who flash their potential when they get the opportunity. Lafreniere has done none of that.

He's just not a tried-and-true 1OA. I think Quebecois hype, QMJHL point totals, and playing for Crosby's Q team did the heavy lifting.

It's bad luck that NYR got 1st overall in that draft, of all drafts.

I think he can be something worthwhile - but never what was promised. Right now he should be in the AHL, and get the call-up before playoffs, assuming he kicks ass in Hartford.

 

[bhamill]

Last I checked, Stutzle had 3 more even strength points than Lafrenierre.
Pointing this out is NOT a knock on Stutzle, unless you believe that Laf is a Brendl bust or a career bottom sixer or some of the other hot takes on here. Personally I think Stutzle is a good hockey player. I also believe Laf isn’t half as bad as a lot of the takes on here even though I’m not near satisfied with his play. The fact that he is only 3 points behind Stutzle at EV, while still well behind where we want him in his development, is NOT a trashing of Stutzle or a “ he’s overrated,” it’s a simple straightforward statistical comparison. It is kind of a have your cake and eat it too for some people. They want to say how great one player is and the other sucks, but they are statistically comparable. It’s inconvenient, I know, but that’s life.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Maybe if the Rangers fans boo him, he’d request a trade. Cant wait until the Rangers get back a 3rd for him within the next 2 seasons.

 

[mike14]

Ignoring the high-end skills and lack thereof, where's the attitude, compete level and 'future capatin' mentality that was talked up so much before he set foot on the ice?

 

[OthmannOut]

Based on what? There is no evidence to suggest this. Where are the NHL caliber skills

explain to me how his primary assist to vesey today wasn't a beauty.
everyone in here is just getting high on piling on a player who is surely struggling as of late, but when good plays are made they are just handwaved away as luck or that he isn't good enough for his 1oa status.
Overall Laf had a good game up until the end. I really liked his chance in the third (and didn't he get tripped on the follow through?) but alas he didn't get the goal. For all the doomers, remember a few games ago when Kakko made a terrible giveaway? Well what happened afterwards? He was put back out there and he improved, and wouldn't you know, he's been on a tear ever since.
You play the kids, you let the fail, you watch them learn. Laf can watch the tape and improve. This is how you get better.
I mean, there are people in here convinced that Laf has never shown any talent. Somebody unironically saying he is the "Mcillrath" of his draft class. That's cringe exaggeration that I would expect from Penguins fans, and for what it's worth, I think Laf is having an overall bad year and agree that he should play better, but giving up on him now is not at all what we should be doing.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Last I checked, Stutzle had 3 more even strength points than Lafrenierre.
Pointing this out is NOT a knock on Stutzle, unless you believe that Laf is a Brendl bust or a career bottom sixer or some of the other hot takes on here. Personally I think Stutzle is a good hockey player. I also believe Laf isn’t half as bad as a lot of the takes on here even though I’m not near satisfied with his play. The fact that he is only 3 points behind Stutzle at EV, while still well behind where we want him in his development, is NOT a trashing of Stutzle or a “ he’s overrated,” it’s a simple straightforward statistical comparison. It is kind of a have your cake and eat it too for some people. They want to say how great one player is and the other sucks, but they are statistically comparable. It’s inconvenient, I know, but that’s life.

Stutzle is more skilled and more of a complete player in my opinion.

 

[OthmannOut]

Ignoring the high-end skills and lack thereof, where's the attitude, compete level and 'future capatin' mentality that was talked up so much before he set foot on the ice?

he showed that quite distinctly on the biggest stage of his career during the 2022 playoffs, and frankly this is one of the main reasons I am so supportive of him during his recent struggles.

 

[The S5]

Stutz looks a lot better than Laf w/o question, but also some perspective. He’s getting 50% of his pts from the PP and has 2 more pts at ES than Kakko and Laf.

What did do from day 1 to earn all that high quality offensive deployment, w/ not just PP but sheltered mins with 65-70% OZ starts? Nothing. He was drafted 3rd overall by a bottom feeder.

Stutz doesn't look like he's carrying a piano on his back when he skates.
Either the team looks to move him or they sit him down and tell him he needs to work his ass off to get in better shape and work on his quickness.
As fans, the best thing would be to lower our expectations to just about zero for the rest of this season. If he's around next year, the hope is he realizes how bad he's been and puts in the work.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Ignoring the high-end skills and lack thereof, where's the attitude, compete level and 'future capatin' mentality that was talked up so much before he set foot on the ice?

He left it in Canada. He will request a trade to Canada soon. Watch. I get that vibe from his character.

I said it last year and was mocked. This kid needs to be in Hartford. He needs to be the guy again. He can’t even take a pass anymore. It’s pathetic.

Go down there rebuild some confidence. If he can even, I’m no contract guy. If not maybe a few games being the healthy scratch again. He hasn’t earned the time.

Become a man over the off-season. Throw out Kakko’s old video games, hang out with his laser beam’s friends and gain some F’n stamina.

I believe he has to go through waivers. Not happening sadly.

 

[xsniper11x]

I feel like that number has been going up every year. Before we know it it'll be the all important 10th season.

Outside your elite talents (although many examples there as well), the 4th season rule has a long and consistent track record. If your game relies more on IQ or strength than blazing speed, that usually steepens the curve.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Last I checked, Stutzle had 3 more even strength points than Lafrenierre.
Pointing this out is NOT a knock on Stutzle, unless you believe that Laf is a Brendl bust or a career bottom sixer or some of the other hot takes on here. Personally I think Stutzle is a good hockey player. I also believe Laf isn’t half as bad as a lot of the takes on here even though I’m not near satisfied with his play. The fact that he is only 3 points behind Stutzle at EV, while still well behind where we want him in his development, is NOT a trashing of Stutzle or a “ he’s overrated,” it’s a simple straightforward statistical comparison. It is kind of a have your cake and eat it too for some people. They want to say how great one player is and the other sucks, but they are statistically comparable. It’s inconvenient, I know, but that’s life.

Stutzle being flashier and showing up on social media more (and being hyped in a Canadian market) explains a ton of this perception gap.

 

[xsniper11x]

Stutz doesn't look like he's carrying a piano on his back when he skates.
Either the team looks to move him or they sit him down and tell him he needs to work his ass off to get in better shape and work on his quickness.
As fans, the best thing would be to lower our expectations to just about zero for the rest of this season. If he's around next year, the hope is he realizes how bad he's been and puts in the work.

Agreed. I buy this argument a lot more than the “he has no observable skill” one. Challenge the kid to come to camp in the best shape of his life, make him earn his big pay day, then let’s see how he reacts.

 

[bhamill]

Stutzle is more skilled and more of a complete player in my opinion.

You are certainly entitled to that take, though when I watch him he looks “not good” defensively. Not a shock for a player his age. He is also not physical. He does not seem like a “complete” player to me. But he like everyone else from that draft class, is certainly still developing. Take away power play opportunity, which he might not get on this team either, and he has very comparable stats to Lafreniere. Again, this is not a running down of Stutzle. Good VERY YOUNG hockey player who I would certainly love on this team.

 

[mike14]

he showed that quite distinctly on the biggest stage of his career during the 2022 playoffs, and frankly this is one of the main reasons I am so supportive of him during his recent struggles.

I liked Laf's playoffs but I do wonder if they've become a bit overstated due to what's happened after.
2 goals in 20 games. Less than 0.5ppg. He put up 4 in 3 at the end of Carolina/start of TBL but then went 6 games without a point.
If that's him distinctly showing his compete level (basically scoring at his reg season pace) then we really need to ask the question about whether we hang on to this lower middle-6 winger or look to make some changes

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

Agreed. I buy this argument a lot more than the “he has no observable skill” one. Challenge the kid to come to camp in the best shape of his life, make him earn his big pay day, then let’s see how he reacts.

why wait until the beginning of next season to see his reaction regarding making his pay day? instead how about we wait for his reaction will be during the next 41 games after what we witnessed today?

 

[OthmannOut]

I liked Laf's playoffs but I do wonder if they've become a bit overstated due to what's happened after.
2 goals in 20 games. Less than 0.5ppg. He put up 4 in 3 at the end of Carolina/start of TBL but then went 6 games without a point.
If that's him distinctly showing his compete level (basically scoring at his reg season pace) then we really need to ask the question about whether we hang on to this lower middle-6 winger or look to make some changes

First off, the playoffs and the regular season are a different beast. There are stakes and the game becomes much more physical. You know this. So no I don't think it is overstated, as the kids were a crucial part to our run and I look forward to future runs where they again help the team advance. Everyone is rightly talking about Hughes playing like a stud, but will he be able to play at this level in the playoffs? I'm not so sure about that. I could be wrong, but it's a much different game and he won't have as much space to dance around.
Second, a 0.5 ppg player with virtually no PP time is solid. This point has been beaten to death so I won't go on a long rant, but his point total would look more attractive if he was given pp1 time like virtually every 1oa has gotten over the years, but I digress.
Third, asking if we should "we hang on to this lower middle-6 winger or look to make some changes" is reactionary and missing the obvious long term benefits of Laf panning out and reaching his full potential. It's called buying low and selling high (in this case, we aren't even paying anything because we won the lottery). If we have prospects then the best thing to do is to give them ice time and help them develop.
The abosolute worst case scenario is Laf shows literally no improvement and plays like a 3rd/4th liner for the rest of his career. But the best case scenario is a franchise forward. Selling now would not be wise at all unless we are getting a hefty return.

 

[RickChartraw]

@avgard your take on the lafresgu is most wanted here. please return.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

Ship him to Montreal, they may overpay for him

 

[mike14]

First off, the playoffs and the regular season are a different beast. There are stakes and the game becomes much more physical. You know this. So no I don't think it is overstated, as the kids were a crucial part to our run and I look forward to future runs where they again help the team advance. Everyone is rightly talking about Hughes playing like a stud, but will he be able to play at this level in the playoffs? I'm not so sure about that. I could be wrong, but it's a much different game and he won't have as much space to dance around.
Second, a 0.5 ppg player with virtually no PP time is solid. This point has been beaten to death so I won't go on a long rant, but his point total would look more attractive if he was given pp1 time like virtually every 1oa has gotten over the years, but I digress.
Third, asking if we should "we hang on to this lower middle-6 winger or look to make some changes" is reactionary and missing the obvious long term benefits of Laf panning out and reaching his full potential. It's called buying low and selling high (in this case, we aren't even paying anything because we won the lottery). If we have prospects then the best thing to do is to give them ice time and help them develop.
The abosolute worst case scenario is Laf shows literally no improvement and plays like a 3rd/4th liner for the rest of his career. But the best case scenario is a franchise forward. Selling now would not be wise at all unless we are getting a hefty return.

I appreciate the effort, but that was a lot of words to just say "I really hope he pans out and becomes a difference maker".
I hope that too, it's just looking very unlikely at the moment; and if it continues that way then the question will have to be asked about the opportunity cost of Laf vs something else, with all the different components that entails

 

[xsniper11x]

why wait until the beginning of next season to see his reaction regarding making his pay day? instead how about we wait for his reaction will be during the next 41 games after what we witnessed today?

That’s fair, but we already scratched him. If it’s really a conditioning issue (maybe he was too full of himself after a great PO run and slacked off), then it’s unfortunately going to take until the offseason to fix.

 

[mas0764]

If Lafreniere is a bust they might as well tear it down and go back into the lottery. Keep Fox Chytil and Kakko, trade anything else not nailed down and that includes Shesterkin.