Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[Shesterkybomb]

i haven’t heard that, no. But honestly in two plus seasons he doesn’t seem much stronger. Now a lions share of that is probably just that his body hasn’t matured yet, but you would think aside from that he can still take small steps.
What served him against juniors obviously is not enough for the pros. He wouldn’t be the first kid to have to figure out that EVEN harder off season strength and conditioning is required at this level. In either case my point is he DOES need to be dedicated to that in the off season. I’m of the opinion that he will get there when he gets his man strength. Just like KK did.

I don't think it's fair to imply he wasn't, I'd be blown away if he all of a sudden stopped being a gym rat when he joined the rangers.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

so the kid put on over 10-15 pounds? no wonder he skates like shit.

about a week ago some guy was moving the puck from his own zone. he turned around and saw laffy. now normally if you see someone from behind you might raise it up a gear. nah - the guy just coasted out of his own zone without any worries.

the food in nyc is real good i'm not going to lie. resisting can be real hard.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

so the kid put on over 10-15 pounds? no wonder he skates like shit.

about a week ago some guy was moving the puck from his own zone. he turned around and saw laffy. now normally if you see someone from behind you might raise it up a gear. nah - the guy just coasted out of his own zone without any worries.

the food in nyc is real good i'm not going to lie. resisting can be real hard.

 

[bhamill]

I don't think it's fair to imply he wasn't, I'd be blown away if he all of a sudden stopped being a gym rat when he joined the rangers.

You are right it’s not fair to assume that. But maybe it’s possible that top level gym rat at junior level is not the same as top level gym rat in the NHL? That’s why Ive been careful to frame it as a learning process rather than laziness or anything. I mean, I admit this is all speculation, and I’m not trying to impugn his character, just saying it’s quite possible he’s still adjusting to what it takes to be an NHLer.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

The best course of action is to develop your first overall pick into a star so you have six stars on your team instead of five. Or whatever.

If you lose a couple regular season games while accomplishing that goal it is basically irrelevant. You have to play the long game.


Yup, spot on.


That was foolish of you.

No it's not irrelevant if you actually want to get in the playoffs in the first place. Every game and every point matters in the Metro. Have you looked at the standings? The Rangers have zero margin for error. I understand developing young players but not if it puts the team at a risk of lesser production and a couple less wins. That could be the difference between getting in or not.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You are right it’s not fair to assume that. But maybe it’s possible that top level gym rat at junior level is not the same as top level gym rat in the NHL? That’s why Ive been careful to frame it as a learning process rather than laziness or anything. I mean, I admit this is all speculation, and I’m not trying to impugn his character, just saying it’s quite possible he’s still adjusting to what it takes to be an NHLer.

Of course not. That's why it takes time for younger players to dominate the NHL. Laf is still growing into his man strength. He will get there. Took Kakko a few years too. Players are much stronger than they were in the past. If Laf came into the NHL in the 90's he'd probably would look much stronger than he does in todays NHL.

 

[JHS]

Norris Trophy winner, 50 goal scorer, mvp finalist, #1 center with a howitzer, and right handed stick not named Carpenter. Let's play two!

Edit: and those aren't guys from 5 different corners of the world. Those are 5 guys who have accumulated reps and thus have synergy and a bank of experience to draw on to self-correct. #Blessed

You are 100% correct. Half this board just wants to be able to say “Look Laf has 20 goals” when this season is over at all costs so they can justify how the Rangers did not potentially draft the worst number one pick in the past 10 years.

Laf is invisible on 5 on 5 play on a nightly basis. Like you have to work hard to be that unnoticeable level of bad. To suggest he just gets thrown out there on the power play so his stats are better is a joke and shows you just have no clue how hockey works. What, other than he was the first overall pick would justify putting Laf out there over anyone on the current top unit? He would not even be the first player from the second unit I’d move up( Kappo would.)Laf does nothing well enough to warrant being out there with the top unit- NOTHING!

Can we please give up this insane argument that arguably the 10th,11th,12th or sometimes 13th best forward on the roster should be gifted power play time just so his stats look better and maybe his confidence would be better?!!? He's not being held back by the Rangers. He’s being held back by his own lack of ability to earn one of the top unit spots!

 

[mas0764]

No it's not irrelevant if you actually want to get in the playoffs in the first place. Every game and every point matters in the Metro. Have you looked at the standings? The Rangers have zero margin for error. I understand developing young players but not if it puts the team at a risk of lesser production and a couple less wins. That could be the difference between getting in or not.

If you are, for example, last year's Rangers who had the playoffs locked up by basically January, then yes it's basically irrelevant.

If you are a borderline playoff team then you aren't a real contender and I'm not worried about missing the playoffs since the higher draft pick is better for you anyway.

 

[mas0764]

Can we please give up this insane argument that arguably the 10th,11th,12th or sometimes 13th best forward on the roster should be gifted power play time just so his stats look better and maybe his confidence would be better?!!? He's not being held back by the Rangers. He’s being held back by his own lack of ability to earn one of the top unit spots!

You're not going to hear the end of it because your ultimate analysis is wrong.

Development is a real thing despite how often some insist that it isn't.

 

[IronBloodedLion]

Laf getting the Broadway hat is quite a message to Gallant.

 

[JHS]

You're not going to hear the end of it because your ultimate analysis is wrong.

Development is a real thing despite how often some insist that it isn't.

So development to you means you just throw guys into situations based on their draft status and hopes that somehow the other players on the roster just accept that because Laf is the top overall pick?

I believe that’s exactly what the Jets did with Zach Wilson- how’d that work out???

Laf is not good enough to be on the top power play. Besides this myopic view of how players develop, can you name one attribute, just one that would make him well suited for the role you are suggesting he gets?

 

[mas0764]

So development to you means you just throw guys into situations based on their draft status

No, that's not what it means.

It does mean that yes sometimes a high, high draft pick will need to get minutes he doesn't necessarily deserve at the expense of a veteran. But it's not just "thrown in." It should be carefully calculated to have the least negative impact while still developing the player, which is the primary objective.

and hopes that somehow the other players on the roster just accept that because Laf is the top overall pick?

That's not a thing. Remember when we heard last year about how we couldn't move Kreider down? The vets will revolt! The team will suck! Blah blah blah.

Here he is playing on the third line this year and everything is fine.

That was all a lie last year, a bold faced lie from the Kreider homers who didn't want him moved off the top line.

So that argument is completely meritless.

Laf is not good enough to be on the top power play. Besides this myopic view of how players develop, can you name one attribute, just one that would make him well suited for the role you are suggesting he gets?

Laf is not currently one of the best 5 players suited for the power play, but to get him there, or to get him there more expediently, he'll probably have to play there more, and be plugged into a unit that is functioning so he can learn, not thrown haphazardly into a unit that never accomplishes anything like our current PP2.

That's not "myopic," that's how life works, you learn by doing.

As for attributes, Laf has always been a very good passer. Putting him in a bumper role I think fits his skills well.

Currently, he is indecisive but that stems from a lack of confidence and a lack of knowledge of the pro game. He needs to develop these things.

He should absolutely get a shot on PP1 since it's sitting there ranked 15th currently anyway. It doesn't have to be permanently mothballed but yes the kids should get time at the expense of the vets.

 

[JHS]

No, that's not what it means.

It does mean that yes sometimes a high, high draft pick will need to get minutes he doesn't necessarily deserve at the expense of a veteran. But it's not just "thrown in." It should be carefully calculated to have the least negative impact while still developing the player, which is the primary objective.



That's not a thing. Remember when we heard last year about how we couldn't move Kreider down? The vets will revolt! The team will suck! Blah blah blah.

Here he is playing on the third line this year and everything is fine.

That was all a lie last year, a bold faced lie from the Kreider homers who didn't want him moved off the top line.

So that argument is completely meritless.


Laf is not currently one of the best 5 players suited for the power play, but to get him there, or to get him there more expediently, he'll probably have to play there more, and be plugged into a unit that is functioning so he can learn, not thrown haphazardly into a unit that never accomplishes anything like our current PP2.

That's not "myopic," that's how life works, you learn by doing.

As for attributes, Laf has always been a very good passer. Putting him in a bumper role I think fits his skills well.

Currently, he is indecisive but that stems from a lack of confidence and a lack of knowledge of the pro game. He needs to develop these things.

He should absolutely get a shot on PP1 since it's sitting there ranked 15th currently anyway. It doesn't have to be permanently mothballed but yes the kids should get time at the expense of the vets.

Your whole point hinges around he’s the top overall pick and you want him to be successful seemingly in spite of a team that clearly can compete for a cup. If he was drafted in the 3rd round with the skill set he currently has, no one would be advocating for more powerplay usage. It’s honestly that simple. If you think Laf has earned that time on the PP then you’ve honestly shown you don’t know what you are watching.

This idea that the team is divided into “vets” and “kids” is not at all how any coach views his players. The coach will put the group he thinks will score the most power play goals in the powerplay. That’s Gallant’s job- to win games. He’s said it time and time again.

You also seem to think that throwing him out in the powerplay will somehow make him develop faster. Maybe it will increase his point total and maybe it will increase his confidence but it’s not going to help his 5 on 5 play which is putrid.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

yes our PP is ranked 18th and is worse than last season, but it's only by a smidge. using that as an excuse to put in the kid at PP1 is still ludicrous.

other teams actually this season have raised their PP performances by leaps and bounds and surpassed our. hell to my dismay even minny is slightly doing better than ours.

 

[bhamill]

Of course not. That's why it takes time for younger players to dominate the NHL. Laf is still growing into his man strength. He will get there. Took Kakko a few years too. Players are much stronger than they were in the past. If Laf came into the NHL in the 90's he'd probably would look much stronger than he does in todays NHL.

Agreed.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

what? laffy in the 90's? no way!!! i don't think he would have survived during that period..

 

[mas0764]

Your whole point hinges around he’s the top overall pick and you want him to be successful seemingly in spite of a team that clearly can compete for a cup. If he was drafted in the 3rd round with the skill set he currently has, no one would be advocating for more powerplay usage.

And? He was a first overall pick, not a third round pick. That carries with it certain realities, ie, the reality that buried in this player is the potential for an elite NHLer that the Rangers are obligated to the fanbase to do everything they can to turn him into a star, so that the team wins Cups, which they will not do without turning him into a star.

It’s honestly that simple.

It's not that simple. A first overall pick is not the same as a third round pick no matter how many times you falsely equate the two. They are not the same. You're wrong.

If you think Laf has earned that time on the PP then you’ve honestly shown you don’t know what you are watching.

Good thing I didn't say he's earned it. I said he needs it to develop and the Rangers are obligated to develop him. They ignore doing so at the expense of ever winning a Cup.

This idea that the team is divided into “vets” and “kids” is not at all how any coach views his players. The coach will put the group he thinks will score the most power play goals in the powerplay. That’s Gallant’s job- to win games. He’s said it time and time again.

Gallant is also shortsightedly wrong if he thinks winning the game on the day in front of him is the only objective.

Winning the Cup is the ultimate objective. To do that, you have to develop the kids. That means you might have to take a regular season loss here or there that you might otherwise win if you just leaned on your experienced players.

But leaning on all the experienced players and winning all the regular season games doesn't count for shit when it comes to the playoffs. For the playoffs you need your kids to be stars and if they aren't, you don't win the Cup, and you've failed. We've seen this play out including last season when the scoring dried up against Tampa. The Rangers needed another big time goal scorer or two and they couldn't find that person. If only Kakko or Laf had been able to bury 2-3 goals that series.

You need the big picture. Trying to win every single regular season game without developing your kids is stupid.

You need to develop your kids. First and foremost.

The rest of the winning will come.

It's chicken and the egg. Which comes first? In this example, what comes first is developing your talent. Then winning comes after.

You also seem to think that throwing him out in the powerplay will somehow make him develop faster. Maybe it will increase his point total and maybe it will increase his confidence but it’s not going to help his 5 on 5 play which is putrid.

I suspect it will help him develop faster, yes.

No, it's not correct that developing his offensive skills on the power play will not help his 5v5 play. That's false.

Of course he does have to improve at some things that are not related to the power play, such as hustle, defensive responsibility, etc.

The Rangers' problem is that they only stress those things and not the offensive development. The Rangers are stressing the wrong things. Defensive responsibility can and should be taught after offensive development.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

If you are, for example, last year's Rangers who had the playoffs locked up by basically January, then yes it's basically irrelevant.

If you are a borderline playoff team then you aren't a real contender and I'm not worried about missing the playoffs since the higher draft pick is better for you anyway.

The borderline playoff team plays in the toughest division in hockey and is 3 points from 2nd place. It can be argued that this years team has actually played better overall than last year except for the goaltending. Nobody thought last years team was headed to the ECF either. I would rather a chance than no chance. That playoff experience is also invaluable to the younger players. You can also win and develop kids at the same time. I think that Chytil, Miller, Schneider, Kakko, are all developing fine. Laf is lagging a little but he will be fine as well.

 

[mas0764]

The borderline playoff team plays in the toughest division in hockey and is 3 points from 2nd place. It can be argued that this years team has actually played better overall than last year except for the goaltending. Nobody thought last years team was headed to the ECF either. I would rather a chance than no chance. That playoff experience is also invaluable to the younger players.

Good thing they got that "invaluable" experience last year then.

At some point they need the invaluable experience of getting reliable power play time.

You can also win and develop kids at the same time. I think that Chytil, Miller, Schneider, Kakko, are all developing fine. Laf is lagging a little but he will be fine as well.

Yes, you can win and develop kids at the same time. They are giving Kakko first line minutes right now. Putting him on the PP would be another step. A PP that would still have Panarin, Zibanejad, and Fox on it.

Laf should get PP time and more top 6 minutes as well. The team would still be winning if the vets don't crap the bed.

Inserting him into the PP shouldn't cost you games. I'm not trying to tank.

But if it does cost you games I'm not losing sleep over it. We are better off long term.

 

[UnSandvich]

Remember in the playoffs last year, when the veterans all were hurt, playing like shit, or both? And the kid line helped keep the Rangers in it?

Shouldn't we want more of that? Why aren't we giving them every opportunity and aid we can to make sure that not only can they repeat that performance, but they can develop further beyond it?

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

he already has a chance to develop - he already has his own line. his job at this moment is to sufficiently develop into a formidable nhl player on that line.

if anything the ranger at this moment are in an enviable position in that if all goes well they can potentially put out 3 lines opposing teams will have to worry about on a regular basis. take a look at all the other teams - how many of them can you say that they have 3 quality lines?

 

[Kocur26]

all signs say he’s gone soon

The Rangers Scratching Alexis Lafreniere Raised Questions About His Future

 

[will1066]

Laf will have a good game against Carolina

 

[LORDE]

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

 

[will1066]

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

I think it's a great way by the room to show support to him. And if Gerard had seen this move coming, then he's playing 4D chess to rally the group at his own expense.