Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[haveandare]

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

Yeah? Harpur had it to give. It’s not the first star

 

[will1066]

Yeah? Harpur had it to give. It’s not the first star

Inb4 so now we're giving the Broadway hat to a borderline NHL defenseman who you wouldn't recognize on the street when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

 

[UnSandvich]

all signs say he’s gone soon

The Rangers Scratching Alexis Lafreniere Raised Questions About His Future

"All signs say"
Cites The Hockey News.

Yeah sure, okay buddy.

 

[Irishguy42]

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

The previous player chooses who gets the next hat and Harpur/the locker room felt good for Laf to get it.

Non-story.

 

[IDvsEGO]

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

Pretty sure it was the players way of saying "you didnt do anything wrong to deserve the scratch and we're with you"

 

[JHS]

And? He was a first overall pick, not a third round pick. That carries with it certain realities, ie, the reality that buried in this player is the potential for an elite NHLer that the Rangers are obligated to the fanbase to do everything they can to turn him into a star, so that the team wins Cups, which they will not do without turning him into a star.



It's not that simple. A first overall pick is not the same as a third round pick no matter how many times you falsely equate the two. They are not the same. You're wrong.



Good thing I didn't say he's earned it. I said he needs it to develop and the Rangers are obligated to develop him. They ignore doing so at the expense of ever winning a Cup.



Gallant is also shortsightedly wrong if he thinks winning the game on the day in front of him is the only objective.

Winning the Cup is the ultimate objective. To do that, you have to develop the kids. That means you might have to take a regular season loss here or there that you might otherwise win if you just leaned on your experienced players.

But leaning on all the experienced players and winning all the regular season games doesn't count for shit when it comes to the playoffs. For the playoffs you need your kids to be stars and if they aren't, you don't win the Cup, and you've failed. We've seen this play out including last season when the scoring dried up against Tampa. The Rangers needed another big time goal scorer or two and they couldn't find that person. If only Kakko or Laf had been able to bury 2-3 goals that series.

You need the big picture. Trying to win every single regular season game without developing your kids is stupid.

You need to develop your kids. First and foremost.

The rest of the winning will come.

It's chicken and the egg. Which comes first? In this example, what comes first is developing your talent. Then winning comes after.



I suspect it will help him develop faster, yes.

No, it's not correct that developing his offensive skills on the power play will not help his 5v5 play. That's false.

Of course he does have to improve at some things that are not related to the power play, such as hustle, defensive responsibility, etc.

The Rangers' problem is that they only stress those things and not the offensive development. The Rangers are stressing the wrong things. Defensive responsibility can and should be taught after offensive development.

If you don’t think Laf has earned powerplay time then your entire argument loses 100% credibility. Like you just don’t understand anything about hockey culture at all. No one in hockey just gets handed anything- no one. Not even the best players ever to play we’re just gifted their opportunities. You want Laf to “develop” but then say he should be gifted PP time. My man- I’m happy you believe you know more than generations of hockey coaches, players, scouts everyone but it’s just not how it works.

Also, he’s had 3 years in the league. You write as if he’s 50 games into his NHL career. He’s had plenty of time to show what he is. He can’t even make the first powerplay unit. That’s ok- maybe in 3 more seasons he will be able to. Maybe next year— but not now.

I’m also not sure why you multi quote every response you give. It’s very trial lawyer and makes me think it’s entirely about winning an argument rather than actually debating.

 

[bhamill]

all signs say he’s gone soon

The Rangers Scratching Alexis Lafreniere Raised Questions About His Future

Ahahahaha. “All signs.” How soon is “soon” in this fantasy? Is it before he retires? Tell me when, I’ll put it in my calendar.
In all seriousness, that is quite a leap.

So now we're giving the Broadway hat to a healthy scratch who worked hard in the next game when Zbad had 2 goals... Trocheck w goal and assist... Kakko 2 apples?

WTF

So now we are getting incensed at the locker room showing support for a 21 year old teammate that they obviously have a genuine fondness for?

WTF.

 

[huerter]

You want to embrace debate but then they say he should be in the bumper spot and you have no choice but to think the whole thing is more agenda based than rationale based.

 

[LORDE]

Yeah? Harpur had it to give. It’s not the first star

Then it's meaningless and they should stop the tradition.

It's a participation award in the top ice hockey league on the planet now?

f***ing pathetic

 

[bhamill]

Then it's meaningless and they should stop the tradition.

It's a participation award in the top ice hockey league on the planet now?

f***ing pathetic

Yeah. I mean who needs camaraderie in the locker room? f***ing pathetic.
You seem awfully worked up over something so meaningless. They’ve been doing this for years but NOW it’s a problem because they showed support for someone you seem to personally dislike? This is such a weird take. Why so emotionally invested?

 

[mas0764]

If you don’t think Laf has earned powerplay time then your entire argument loses 100% credibility. Like you just don’t understand anything about hockey culture at all. No one in hockey just gets handed anything- no one. Not even the best players ever to play we’re just gifted their opportunities. You want Laf to “develop” but then say he should be gifted PP time. My man- I’m happy you believe you know more than generations of hockey coaches, players, scouts everyone but it’s just not how it works.

Also, he’s had 3 years in the league. You write as if he’s 50 games into his NHL career. He’s had plenty of time to show what he is. He can’t even make the first powerplay unit. That’s ok- maybe in 3 more seasons he will be able to. Maybe next year— but not now.

I’m also not sure why you multi quote every response you give. It’s very trial lawyer and makes me think it’s entirely about winning an argument rather than actually debating.

Cause walls of text are unclear. Specific points require specific responses.

Oh, so I “just don’t understand hockey culture.”

Nuh uh, you don’t.

The classic fallback when you don’t have a response. The coaches know better!

Despite the fact that they clearly make very serious mistakes literally all the time.

Putting Laf on PP1 isn’t “handing” him anything. It’s developing him and it is what is best for the org. I heard these same idiotic points last year about Kreider and how you couldn’t “demote” him to the third line because hockey culture. Fast forward to this year and he’s been on the third line for long stretches of time and it’s fine, just like it would have been fine last year. Hockey culture is a crutch people use when they don’t have any real argument and it’s the exact same regarding why Laf can’t be put on PP1…. And it’s just as wrong.

Funny how it wasn’t how things work last year except now it is how things work. Ooops, they always work, it’s about making them work and not silly platitudes.

 

[LORDE]

Yeah. I mean who needs camaraderie in the locker room? f***ing pathetic.
You seem awfully worked up over something so meaningless. They’ve been doing this for years but NOW it’s a problem because they showed support for someone you seem to personally dislike? This is such a weird take. Why so emotionally invested?

I stand by my "participation award" statement

I never said anything about camaraderie and I'm not worked up.

It's just seems like sad, coddling to a player who needs to be WAYYYYYYY better than he has been.

Coach or PP or linemates or whatever

He needs to be WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better

& FYI I own a Laff jersey so don't tell me I personally dislike him.

I am however SEVERELY disappointed by him (anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves)

 

[mas0764]

You want to embrace debate but then they say he should be in the bumper spot and you have no choice but to think the whole thing is more agenda based than rationale based.

If you tinker more than just Laf into the bumper spot, there’s no reason it can’t have success.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Then it's meaningless and they should stop the tradition.

It's a participation award in the top ice hockey league on the planet now?

f***ing pathetic

Its not a participation award... Its recognizing a teammate.
It goes on in EVERY team, at almost every level, and has for decades under different guises.

This is the most "hockey culture" argument I've ever seen. Ignoring this has been part of hockey culture for decades.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

You are right it’s not fair to assume that. But maybe it’s possible that top level gym rat at junior level is not the same as top level gym rat in the NHL? That’s why Ive been careful to frame it as a learning process rather than laziness or anything. I mean, I admit this is all speculation, and I’m not trying to impugn his character, just saying it’s quite possible he’s still adjusting to what it takes to be an NHLer.

I mean if he looked like phil kessel thats one thing but he's in good shape, not sure how you came to that idea.

all signs say he’s gone soon

The Rangers Scratching Alexis Lafreniere Raised Questions About His Future

Hes gonna be here for another 8 years, stop posting click bait

yes our PP is ranked 18th and is worse than last season, but it's only by a smidge. using that as an excuse to put in the kid at PP1 is still ludicrous.

other teams actually this season have raised their PP performances by leaps and bounds and surpassed our. hell to my dismay even minny is slightly doing better than ours.

Our pp was ranked low last year because Mika was a corpse for the first half of the year, it was worlds better from Christmas on.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I stand by my "participation award" statement

I never said anything about camaraderie and I'm not worked up.

It's just seems like sad, coddling to a player who needs to be WAYYYYYYY better than he has been.

Coach or PP or linemates or whatever

He needs to be WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better

& FYI I own a Laff jersey so don't tell me I personally dislike him.

I am however SEVERELY disappointed by him (anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves)

Its not coddling. The player who had the hat previously chooses it (sometimes theres a suggestion from the captain - which might be the case this time), the coach has no input on it.
This wasn't coddling, this was a shot at gallant recognizing the kid got sat because the team sucked, and the kid was the victim.
Laf wasn't good against washington, but there were 4 players who werent bad that night.
Laf got sat because he was called out even though he was no worse than anyone else.

So his teammates who actually like him, made it a point to show "hey we know what happened, and wanted to make it clear you got messed with unfairly"

 

[mas0764]

Also, you don’t ever, ever “lose the locker room” because you move a vet down in the lineup, put an “undeserving” first round pick on the power play, or trade a player at the deadline.

You lose the locker room because your administration doesn’t have sufficient control of the organization and those things force the situation to spin out of control. You know how you keep control? Your coach and GM has a good relationship with the team, and trust with the players, and you sit down and explain things to them, explain that it is best for everyone, and you get buy in to your goals as an organization.

The Rangers fail consistently at communicating with their players in general though so I can see why some think that playing Kreider on the third line would automatically be considered a “demotion” (it isn’t) or trading a guy like Strome at the deadline would be seen as throwing in the towel on the season (it wouldn’t).

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Also, you don’t ever, ever “lose the locker room” because you move a vet down in the lineup, put an “undeserving” first round pick on the power play, or trade a player at the deadline.

You lose the locker room because your administration doesn’t have sufficient control of the organization and those things force the situation to spin out of control. You know how you keep control? Your coach and GM has a good relationship with the team, and trust with the players, and you sit down and explain things to them, explain that it is best for everyone, and you get buy in to your goals as an organization.

The Rangers fail consistently at communicating with their players in general though so I can see why some think that playing Kreider on the third line would automatically be considered a “demotion” (it isn’t) or trading a guy like Strome at the deadline would be seen as throwing in the towel on the season (it wouldn’t).

Kreider has his pay day, he should be on the 3rd line now, he gets pp time, pk time, he isn't helping that line 5 on 5 so there is no logical reason for him to still be there other than the fact him and Zib are cuddle buddies

 

[mas0764]

And FWIW I agree that Laf needs to be way better. The question is how to get him there. Doing what they have been doing isn’t working (and doesn’t generally work).

 

[IDvsEGO]

Our pp was ranked low last year because Mika was a corpse for the first half of the year, it was worlds better from Christmas on.

Our PP is 2% off from where it was at the end of last season. that 2% would move us from middle of the pack, to top 10.

We're not bad on the PP, this isnt like the Tort era where our offense was actually worse on the PP.
Last year was a career year on the PP for CK, this year he's more human.

Even with our PP looking good, I still think we should be looking at getting the kids time on it now.
Kakko looks fantastic, Laf has consistently looked good with a man advantage, and chytil is one of our best forwards this year.

If we want the kids to be that second window, we need to start opening it now.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

Well, Kakko was supposed to be demanding a trade and just punched his ticket to Miserableville because of his playoff scratching. Yet, wait a minute, he responded well and has been trending upwards ever since.

Trading Laff is an absolutely nothingburger of a story and it makes me honestly question peoples hockey IQ.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

If you don’t think Laf has earned powerplay time then your entire argument loses 100% credibility. Like you just don’t understand anything about hockey culture at all. No one in hockey just gets handed anything- no one. Not even the best players ever to play we’re just gifted their opportunities. You want Laf to “develop” but then say he should be gifted PP time. My man- I’m happy you believe you know more than generations of hockey coaches, players, scouts everyone but it’s just not how it works.

Also, he’s had 3 years in the league. You write as if he’s 50 games into his NHL career. He’s had plenty of time to show what he is. He can’t even make the first powerplay unit. That’s ok- maybe in 3 more seasons he will be able to. Maybe next year— but not now.

I’m also not sure why you multi quote every response you give. It’s very trial lawyer and makes me think it’s entirely about winning an argument rather than actually debating.

For every single other 1OA pick I can think of (that was unproven at the NHL level), this is exactly how it works. Pretty disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Now that is because usually they step onto the worst or one of the worst rosters in the league.

I can certainly understand why the NYR have done what they have done. Why the coaching staff whose career is primarily dependant on winning today, has handled this the way they have. But the end result is Lafreniere has walked a different path than basically any other 1OA pick has had to walk. To say it's purely on him for not "making the first powerplay unit" is ludicrous.

 

[huerter]

If you tinker more than just Laf into the bumper spot, there’s no reason it can’t have success.

How so? By making PP2 the new PP1. That’s not a tinker. That’s some Castor Troy/Sean Archer S.

 

[mas0764]

How so? By making PP2 the new PP1. That’s not a tinker. That’s some Castor Troy/Sean Archer S.

There is a way to work Kakko and/or Lafreniere into a power play that features Zibanejad, Panarin and Fox you know. It just won’t have Zibanejad in the same old one timer spot he’s always in.

 

[IDvsEGO]

There is a way to work Kakko and/or Lafreniere into a power play that features Zibanejad, Panarin and Fox you know. It just won’t have Zibanejad in the same old one timer spot he’s always in.

I mean ideally laf and kakko are on the boards and that would leave mika in the bumper and ck at the net.
The problem is that mika probably doesnt excel at the bumper without alot of movement.